BoxRec

MightyWarrior wrote:

dmcneil wrote:the reason for this being was that Farnell burst his eardrum early on

He kept landing on his ear, so I'm not surprised it burst.

Arthur and Murphy would get more respect from all if they were to suck it up, count their losses and move on. Don't care if I'm being un-patriotic or not, because analysing fighters while drunk on nationalism does no-one any favours.

The Devil In Roy Jones wrote:Arthur and Murphy would get more respect from all if they were to suck it up, count their losses and move on. Don't care if I'm being un-patriotic or not, because analysing fighters while drunk on nationalism does no-one any favours.

great post, nothing more worse than a sore loser, (and Im not referirng particularly to the two fighters quoted here) Its a sad general trend but there is nothing worse than a fsportman who accepts his loss with excuses and lack of grace (and b4 Im pilloried you can include Lennox in that too post Macall and Rahman).

Flawed Genius....

You have unequivocal proof that the origins of the word are romany have you? I've spent quite a bit of time looking for explanations, and I don't see a single one which mentions this romany word.

James,

Part of the reason you won't have seen a single mention to the word having a Romany origin is because the bookworms who create your "resources", will never have considered that a language that isn't written down can actually exist.

I wasn't sat next to the man who decided to invent the word, so I don't have proof. What I do know, for a fact however, is that the word "mullered" and many more that have found their way into common useage in the English language in the last 50 years or so, have been used by Romanies for hundreds of years. Also, it has the same starting as other word they use associated with death, e.g. "mulo", which means "spirit of the dead".

Bear in mind, that there are often similar sounding words with different meanings in many languages, however you have to ask yourself whether it is more likely that Gerd Muller would make such an imprint on popular parlance, or an obscure romany word. The meaning of the phrase mullered fits far better with the explanation of Gerd Muller to me, as it means blasted, battered, beaten or destroyed, it doesn't mean dead or killed.

You mentioned Chavvy as being one, which interests me. The word chav appears to be constrained to a very particular area, I first of all only heard it said by someone from I thinik Canvy Island who I worked with.

Derivatives of 'chav' are all over the place. 'Hawkers' (as we call the 'settled travelling community' where I come from) refer to non-Hawkers as 'charvers'.

http://www.chavscum.co.uk

Romany has had quite an impact on our language.

No disrespect but you seem to be very book clever but a bit short on life experience, James.

I have been watching bare knucle boxing since I was a kid. You seem to have forgotton, or simply didn't know, that fighting has always been a way of settling disputes and is also a popular sport in the Romany culture. When somebody got a beating, those watching would often say "he got mullered" - meaning "he got killed". It crept into popular useage through gorgers/gadjes (another word starting to be used quite alot) - (which means non-gypsies) who dealt with the Rom from time to time. Such as scrap men and fighters.

The South East of London has produced quite a few good bare knuckle men, many fought gypsy lads and over the years have taken some of the phrases back home with them to London.

e.g.
Mullered = killed/dead
Chavvy = child
Chorin = stealing
Cushty = Good
Mush = Bloke
Scran = Food
Wonga = Money

etc etc

Gradually the words have been used more and more by non-gypsies.

Whoever suggested it was because of a German footballer is well wrong, believe me.

Ian 'Mr' McNeilly wrote:Derivatives of 'chav' are all over the place. 'Hawkers' (as we call the 'settled travelling community' where I come from) refer to non-Hawkers as 'charvers'.

http://www.chavscum.co.uk

Romany has had quite an impact on our language.

Birmingham is full of chavs. They are everywhere.

Chuckle, if you have a vision of some fusty old fart who always has his head in a book, you couldn't be more wrong, I have plenty of life experience, just not the same life experience you have.

I am certainly no intellectual who thinks everything in a book is true, however, I do have quite a keen interest in the origins of words, and

I used to work with a bloke called Tony about 4 years ago, who always used the word chav, but he used it in a different sense to the original romany meaning of the word. It's not an expression I have started hearing a lot until recently, and now suddenly it seems to be everywhere.

Incidentally does anyone here know the origins of the word Shonky, it's a word I've kind of popularised myself amongs my social group, and have noticed it spreading....

However, I first heard it from some black geezer I worked with about 10 years ago, I never heard it before then, and never heard it again from anyone other than people I passed it on to, I wonder whether it was a word that the guy had made up himself...?

Funnily enough if you go to urbandictionary.com and look it up, it has as one of it's definitions...

'A word made up to annoy james' bizzare....

No idea about the word "shonky" I'm afraid.

What seems to happen is that because of the lack of a Romany dictionary their words are taken ever so slightly out of context by non-gypsies (sometimes) and are re-moulded to fit their own needs.

Chav seems to be the best example of that lately.

If you go to urbandictionary.com, you will see that most of the other words have been correctly been attributed to Romanies (chav, chore etc), however, I have seen nothing anywhere regarding Mullered being Romany....though there is a very old germanic world which means dead, maybe this is where the Romanies got it from. As to who popularised it, who knows?

Some of the Romany words will almost certainly have been picked up on their centuries of travels all the way from India, across Eastern Europe to Britain and Ireland. Romany must surely be a language which has been bastardised together

For instance some of those words you listed have Persian origins, so I guess they were picked up early in the history of the Romanies as they made their journey.

The Romanies must have made contact with countless cultures over the centuries, so really you cannot say that the words 'belong' to them. Maybe some of their phrases

The nature of language is that words are appropriated by other cultures, the same thing happened with a lot of Yiddish and Hindustani words

However, sometimes there are several explantions for a word which are plausible.

Anyway, I'm on one again, time for me to shut up.

I agree with the bulk of your last post, but remember: Even the people who write the urban dictionary aren't perfect. :)

No, but as it is put together by individuals from across the country from their own experience, I'm surprised that nobody on there has listed mullered as a Gipsy word.

S.FERRAND wrote:IS THIS THE FAMOUS JAMES THAT ANNOUNCES. ARE YOU THE ONE I HAVE SEEN ANNOUNCE WORLD TITLE BOUTS..? .. IBO I think?

IS YOUR E - MAIL daddy i or daddy j it does not work when I click on it, guess my e - mail is out of order

HAVE YOU or the viewers ever check-out

http://www.andworldboxing.com

also all the great links that can be connected when you go to

globalboxingorganization.esmartweb.com/

It's my uncles idea and I want to promote it because it has the same idea as Ring Magazine just say who is the best no politics!!!!

Ferrand bros.

IBO? Is this a side we weren't aware of, James?

No, I don't announce fights...

S.FERRAND you're thinking of John McDonald.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:No, but as it is put together by individuals from across the country from their own experience, I'm surprised that nobody on there has listed mullered as a Gipsy word.

How many gypsies do you know who are likely to have the inclination to contribute to an online dictionary?

Anyway, this could get petty, so no more.

There seem to be plenty who contributed to the definitions of chore, chav etc......touche...!

The liklihood is that there are people who were former travellers, or have had contact with gypsies who filled in the definitions.....

Who is the current King of the Gypsies? Used to be former pro Gypsy John Fury.

A fella called Dan Sherry (obviously not Eubanks former opponent) is there or thereabouts, bennie.

Isn't Sherry the one Eubank used the old 'reverse coconut' technique on, and should have been disqualified?

Yes, but the bareknuckle man is a different man with the same name.