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Re: Britain's most FEARED fighter,
Posted: 17 Mar 2004, 12:33
by bennie
jimglen wrote:Bert Gilroy was a 'middleweight' up to and including 1943(in and around 12st.), in 1944 he began competing at 'L-HW so as to fight the "big-men", he officially became a 'L-HW in 1945 and only in his last year was he fighting over 12st.7.
He was No.1 from 1939-48 and "official" title challenger to BOTH the British 'middleweight' and the British 'light-heavyweight' titles, yet never got a "title" shot!.
1938 - No.3 'mw'
1939 - No.1 "
1940 - No.1 "
1941 - No.1 "
1942 - No.1 "
1943 - ratings "frozen" (war)
1944 - ratings "frozen" (war)
1945 - No.1 'middleweight' and L-HW
1946 - No.1 L-HW
1947 - No.2 L-HW
1948 - No.1 L-HW
1949 - No.4 HW
From 1940 - 46, Bert Gilroy was a Full classification ahead of his fellow British contenders, with only Pat O'Connor, Dave McCleave, Tommy Davies, and fellow Scotsman Jock McCusker sharing the honors a year each and then Vince Hawkins for two years. Where as All of the other contenders came and went Bert Gilroy was the only one that remaind at a constant. His ten year reign at No.1 was actually longer than the two Champions reign as Champs.
No.1 and for 10 years, yet NEVER was given his title shot, SHUT-OUT or "FROZEN-OUT" as they say in the states.
Remember Mills didn't make not-even-one "title" defense for his L-HW crown, NOT ONE!
McAvoy likewise never again defended his 'middleweight' title after he and Bert were down for the "title" before Bert's injury in 1940 and Bert was FAVORITE to beat him...
Bert Gilroy came into his own in mid-1937 and up until the end of 1946 he had only suffered 9 defeats out of 70 contests, including a six year 41 fight winning streak up to the beginning of 1943!!!
Bert Gilroy was a "first-class" boxer a fearless fighter and a "knock-out" puncher combined, the most feared fighter in Britain, Scotland's greatest "big-man" and he "may well" have been Britain's greatest "middleweight".
Great post. If McAvoy ducked out of a fight with him, he had to be something very special indeed. McAvoy once chinned an unruly fan from his wheelchair!
Posted: 17 Mar 2004, 14:01
by nickd
Herol Graham was avoided, but also very entertaining to watch.
Chris Byrd couldnt draw flies to a turd.
Posted: 17 Mar 2004, 14:08
by JimStone
My Grandad used to talk about a fighter who was Chimney sweep (going back to when my Grandad was a kid), he reckoned he was the dogs bollocks and nobody wanted to fight him. I can't remember his name now, it'll come back to me. His lungs got f*cked up though because of constantly working in a sooty environment.
Posted: 17 Mar 2004, 15:00
by dondada
Jimglen - great, informative post. Couldn't the Board have made Gilroy a mandatory or was that just not the done thing back then?
Posted: 17 Mar 2004, 17:10
by Goz
Me. Haven't had a big fight in years. Just this morning I had a road rage incident with another motorist who drove off very quickly when I wanted to remonstrate with him outside of our vehicles. Avoided or what?
Other than that I guess you could say Winky Wright or even Lennox....
Gilroy
Posted: 17 Mar 2004, 17:17
by jimglen
The BBBofC back in those early days were well known for their "IRON-FISTED" governance over the sport,
they were even written about by English writers and in British Boxers's Bios to say nothing about the stories in the "Ring" about their "RULE" over the sport.
They did pick mandatories, opponents for "eliminators" and these choices were themselves the "greatest" contadication and controversies...
Bert Gilroy though No.1 and still undefeated was "PASSED OVER" in 1942 for Roderick and Sadd, again in 1944 was dropped from the middleweight contention pot and with regard to Mills, Gilroy was No.1 and "official' title challenger from 1945-48 and never got a shot at the light-heavyweight title either???
Boxing is a Business and Jack Solomons "called" the SHOTS with a few other powerhouses the Board fell into line and the BOLD & BRAVE Freddie Mills was protected!
The only reason they got away with it was because of the WAR!
The Americans were to busy to look in or question what was been reported from Britain.
Re: Britain's most FEARED fighter,
Posted: 17 Mar 2004, 17:18
by neil r
bennie wrote:jimglen wrote:Bert Gilroy was a 'middleweight' up to and including 1943(in and around 12st.), in 1944 he began competing at 'L-HW so as to fight the "big-men", he officially became a 'L-HW in 1945 and only in his last year was he fighting over 12st.7.
He was No.1 from 1939-48 and "official" title challenger to BOTH the British 'middleweight' and the British 'light-heavyweight' titles, yet never got a "title" shot!.
1938 - No.3 'mw'
1939 - No.1 "
1940 - No.1 "
1941 - No.1 "
1942 - No.1 "
1943 - ratings "frozen" (war)
1944 - ratings "frozen" (war)
1945 - No.1 'middleweight' and L-HW
1946 - No.1 L-HW
1947 - No.2 L-HW
1948 - No.1 L-HW
1949 - No.4 HW
From 1940 - 46, Bert Gilroy was a Full classification ahead of his fellow British contenders, with only Pat O'Connor, Dave McCleave, Tommy Davies, and fellow Scotsman Jock McCusker sharing the honors a year each and then Vince Hawkins for two years. Where as All of the other contenders came and went Bert Gilroy was the only one that remaind at a constant. His ten year reign at No.1 was actually longer than the two Champions reign as Champs.
No.1 and for 10 years, yet NEVER was given his title shot, SHUT-OUT or "FROZEN-OUT" as they say in the states.
Remember Mills didn't make not-even-one "title" defense for his L-HW crown, NOT ONE!
McAvoy likewise never again defended his 'middleweight' title after he and Bert were down for the "title" before Bert's injury in 1940 and Bert was FAVORITE to beat him...
Bert Gilroy came into his own in mid-1937 and up until the end of 1946 he had only suffered 9 defeats out of 70 contests, including a six year 41 fight winning streak up to the beginning of 1943!!!
Bert Gilroy was a "first-class" boxer a fearless fighter and a "knock-out" puncher combined, the most feared fighter in Britain, Scotland's greatest "big-man" and he "may well" have been Britain's greatest "middleweight".
Great post. If McAvoy ducked out of a fight with him, he had to be something very special indeed. McAvoy once chinned an unruly fan from his wheelchair!
Have you ever read Brian Hughes's book on Jock McAvoy bennie? great book. Strangley enough I just started re-reading it again this morning.
Posted: 18 Mar 2004, 07:38
by Loftgroov
Joe Calzaghe
Mandatories
Posted: 19 Mar 2004, 03:00
by jimglen
Ian "MR" McNeilly
Did you read the reply to your question? Thoughts... re: Gilroy
Posted: 19 Mar 2004, 05:02
by {amateur}
I think if Sven Ottke was to keep fighting i think he would be vert avoided cos if the fight is in Germany and it goes the distance there is no chance of winning.
Posted: 19 Mar 2004, 06:25
by dondada
Jim - was there a case with Gilroy that was similar to Witherspoon and King, as I outlined earlier? i.e. Gilory wouldn't get into bed with Solomons? There must have been some reason as to why he was constantly 'passed over'. Being very good isn't enough.
Shut-Out, reasons???
Posted: 19 Mar 2004, 13:40
by jimglen
The answer is found in these few questions, have a go at it...
Which Country is Boxings "founding" Nation?
Which weight division(s) are the most favoured (prestige and purse)?
Which divisions did this Country have both "respect" and at times "rule" in?
This third question gives you the answer and of course tells you of the much desired need and desperate want of these titles!
Last but not least, unfortunatly Bert Gilroy wasn't even Scots little own British and with World titles in the forecast for "their" owns sons, do you think they would "foolishly" hand them over to a foreigner and in that day and age this was a huge issue. Especially with these divisions at stake!!!
Posted: 19 Mar 2004, 14:47
by tonyevs
Almost all the good black fighters were avoided at the turn of the 20th century, Peter Jackson, Sam Langford,Kid Norfolk,Harry Wills etc..
Posted: 19 Mar 2004, 15:09
by dondada
If Gilroy wasn't Scottish, what was he? Was he also black as well? Ye gods!
Posted: 19 Mar 2004, 15:44
by jimglen
Bert Gilroy was Antonio Rea.
During these war years Italians living in Britain were deemed "enemy" aliens, were locked up(interned), subject to curfews and attacked throughtout the country by fearful citizens...
Gilroy's own father was "curfewed".
But again this was secondary to the English "need" for World titles among the BIG-MEN!!!