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SaadOffTheDeck wrote:I was being sarcastic, Gomez was just too much for him.

Agreed. And the great Salvador Sanchez was too much for Gomez

Rover wrote:

elmersalsa wrote:

Rover wrote:You just mentioned one: Sanchez. That was after Zarate retired, and he destroyed Gomez.
Chavez was also in that class and had a far superior resume to Zarate.
That's not even including fighters like Hagler, Hearns and SRL, all of whom won their titles after Zarate retired following the Pintor loss.

All of those guys that you mentioned above were in Zarate's time. Probably were not champions b 1978, but they were around. I am talking about since those guys left, not even Marco Antonio Barrera nor Erik Morales could match the skills of those monsters: Zarate-Gomez and Sanchez

What do you mean by "Zarate's time"? Zarate retired in 79 and came back when he was shot.
Sanchez was a nobody at that time. You mentioned Gomez and then Zarate and then have just inserted Sanchez in the mix.
Chavez hadn't even turned pro when Zarate retired; he was clearly in that class.
So was Holyfield.
So was Hopkins.
So was Whitaker.
Just a few names.

Also add Manny Pacquiao and Floyd Mayweather, Jr. What a waste. Sanchez was the number 1 contender by 1979 at featherweight.
The great Marvin Hagler was contender for years at middleweight when Zarate was around.
The greats Sugar Ray Leonard and Thomas Hearns were already making headlines.
The great Eusebio Pedroza was already a world champion. And we could go on and on and on.

Hearns, Hagler, and Leonard (nor Sanchez) weren't considered great in June 1979, and that was Zarate's last fight before his retirement for nearly six years.
And Chavez hadn't even turned pro yet.

Rover wrote:Hearns, Hagler, and Leonard (nor Sanchez) weren't considered great in June 1979, and that was Zarate's last fight before his retirement for nearly six years.
And Chavez hadn't even turned pro yet.

Still, I would rather see a green Leonard than a prime Juan Manuel Marquez

I would rather see a Julio Cesar Chavez in the amateurs than a prime Oscar De La Hoya.

elmersalsa wrote:

Rover wrote:Hearns, Hagler, and Leonard (nor Sanchez) weren't considered great in June 1979, and that was Zarate's last fight before his retirement for nearly six years.
And Chavez hadn't even turned pro yet.

Still, I would rather see a green Leonard than a prime Juan Manuel Marquez

I would rather see a Julio Cesar Chavez in the amateurs than a prime Oscar De La Hoya.

That's silliness. Prime DLH would've beaten the amateur Chavez. Chavez wasn't considered a great in 1979, which is the point. You made a silly statement that we haven't seen anything like Gomez and Zarate in our lifetimes.
Chavez was on that level, and he didn't turn pro until Zarate retired.
And Chavez didn't have much of an amateur career.

Rover wrote:

elmersalsa wrote:

Rover wrote:Hearns, Hagler, and Leonard (nor Sanchez) weren't considered great in June 1979, and that was Zarate's last fight before his retirement for nearly six years.
And Chavez hadn't even turned pro yet.

Still, I would rather see a green Leonard than a prime Juan Manuel Marquez

I would rather see a Julio Cesar Chavez in the amateurs than a prime Oscar De La Hoya.

That's silliness. Prime DLH would've beaten the amateur Chavez. Chavez wasn't considered a great in 1979, which is the point. You made a silly statement that we haven't seen anything like Gomez and Zarate in our lifetimes.
Chavez was on that level, and he didn't turn pro until Zarate retired.
And Chavez didn't have much of an amateur career.

I have not seen nothing like Zarate or Gomez ever since in that weight class of 122lbs or that time period. That is my opinion. From 118lbs to 122lbs, I have not seen nothing like those two...What is so impossible for you to comprehend?

And still, I would rather see a Chavez in the amateurs than that crappy De La Hoya.
I would rather see a SRL in the amateurs or being a green pro than that Juan Manuel Marquez.

To me, boxers in those days were SUPERIOR.

Your opinion is laughable. What amateur fights of Chavez have you even seen? Which ones are available?
And there's a big difference between saying Gomez is the best super bantam you've seen or that Zarate's the best bantam you've seen v. saying they're the best fighters you've seen (that no one has come along better since).

Rover wrote:Your opinion is laughable. What amateur fights of Chavez have you even seen? Which ones are available?
And there's a big difference between saying Gomez is the best super bantam you've seen or that Zarate's the best bantam you've seen v. saying they're the best fighters you've seen (that no one has come along better since).

I have never said that Gomez or Zarate were the best fighters that I have ever seen

Well, tell me and answer me this question...What super bantam has you seen better than the great Wilfredo Gomez ever since? What bantamweight was better than the great Carlos Zarate ever since?

Since then, I have not seen a better super bantam or a better bantamweight.
What is the problem? Have you seen anything better?

I have not seen a Chavez fight in the amateurs, and STILL, I WOULD RATHER SEE HIM FIGHT THAN ANY FIGHT THAT Oscar De La Hoya ever had in his life.

Or may I say this, I would rather see Chavez talk than any fight that Oscar De La Hoya ever had.

Oscar would have been a problem for any version of Chavez.

elmersalsa wrote:

Rover wrote:Your opinion is laughable. What amateur fights of Chavez have you even seen? Which ones are available?
And there's a big difference between saying Gomez is the best super bantam you've seen or that Zarate's the best bantam you've seen v. saying they're the best fighters you've seen (that no one has come along better since).

I have never said that Gomez or Zarate were the best fighters that I have ever seen

Well, tell me and answer me this question...What super bantam has you seen better than the great Wilfredo Gomez ever since? What bantamweight was better than the great Carlos Zarate ever since?

Since then, I have not seen a better super bantam or a better bantamweight.
What is the problem? Have you seen anything better?

I have not seen a Chavez fight in the amateurs, and STILL, I WOULD RATHER SEE HIM FIGHT THAN ANY FIGHT THAT Oscar De La Hoya ever had in his life.

Or may I say this, I would rather see Chavez talk than any fight that Oscar De La Hoya ever had.

And your last two sentences illustrate your stupidity.
You didn't say bantams or super bantams before, so don't try to claim you did.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Oscar would have been a problem for any version of Chavez.

I'd favor prime lightweight Chavez over Oscar, but your point of view is a reasonable one--far more so than elmersalsa's--especially since he admittedly never even saw Chavez as an amateur but claims he'd rather have seen that version than prime Oscar--a very good fighter.

He despises Oscar, Elmer doesn't think DLH could beat half of the fighters he did beat.

Remember this, elmer?
"Yes, both of them were great [*]fighters[*]. [*]Fighters[*] that we would never see in our lifetime again Rover."

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:He despises Oscar, Elmer doesn't think DLH could beat half of the fighters he did beat.

I never liked Oscar much either, but I'll give him his due; he was a very good fighter.

Rover wrote:

elmersalsa wrote:

Rover wrote:Your opinion is laughable. What amateur fights of Chavez have you even seen? Which ones are available?
And there's a big difference between saying Gomez is the best super bantam you've seen or that Zarate's the best bantam you've seen v. saying they're the best fighters you've seen (that no one has come along better since).

I have never said that Gomez or Zarate were the best fighters that I have ever seen

Well, tell me and answer me this question...What super bantam has you seen better than the great Wilfredo Gomez ever since? What bantamweight was better than the great Carlos Zarate ever since?

Since then, I have not seen a better super bantam or a better bantamweight.
What is the problem? Have you seen anything better?

I have not seen a Chavez fight in the amateurs, and STILL, I WOULD RATHER SEE HIM FIGHT THAN ANY FIGHT THAT Oscar De La Hoya ever had in his life.

Or may I say this, I would rather see Chavez talk than any fight that Oscar De La Hoya ever had.

And your last two sentences illustrate your stupidity.
You didn't say bantams or super bantams before, so don't try to claim you did.

Maybe your stupidity of trying to understand me is affecting you. I understand.

I understood you quite well, and I even quoted you to refresh your memory of what you said--and then tried to weasel out of.
But thank you for that typically idiotic retort--par for the course for you.

Rover wrote:I understood you quite well, and I even quoted you to refresh your memory of what you said--and then tried to weasel out of.
But thank you for that typically idiotic retort--par for the course for you.

thanks to you and your idiotic comments. Nuff respect, my youth

elmersalsa wrote:

Rover wrote:I understood you quite well, and I even quoted you to refresh your memory of what you said--and then tried to weasel out of.
But thank you for that typically idiotic retort--par for the course for you.

thanks to you and your idiotic comments. Nuff respect, my youth

Your moronic comments deserve and will receive no respect, old man.

Rover wrote:

elmersalsa wrote:

Rover wrote:I understood you quite well, and I even quoted you to refresh your memory of what you said--and then tried to weasel out of.
But thank you for that typically idiotic retort--par for the course for you.

thanks to you and your idiotic comments. Nuff respect, my youth

Your moronic comments deserve and will receive no respect, old man.

Same as your moronic comments...Satisfied?

Satisfied that I've exposed your stupidity with comments such as the gem that you'd rather see JCC talk than prime DLH fight.
Hey, elmer, hope you've got that list of yours you couldn't access that day because you were in the library.

Rover wrote:Satisfied that I've exposed your stupidity with comments such as the gem that you'd rather see JCC talk than prime DLH fight.
Hey, elmer, hope you've got that list of yours you couldn't access that day because you were in the library.

To say that I rather see Chavez talk than any DLHs fights is stupid? Well, let's leave it like that. I guess you like DLH so much that I cannot understand that. Maybe I am stupid about that, too. Well, quite frankly, I really would like to see anything than a DLH or any of today's top fighters FIGHTS...It is a WASTE OF TIME.

I would rather see a movie today or a college or football game on tv than a DLH or anything that have to do with his era.

My list of the top 100 greatest fighters had great reviews by these top notch boxing experts of boxrec.com. I respect them as long as they don't call me nor my antics names like "stupid" like you do. And I do not care. One thing is, I will not be disrespected by anyone in this forum, starting with you. OK?

elmersalsa wrote:

Rover wrote:Satisfied that I've exposed your stupidity with comments such as the gem that you'd rather see JCC talk than prime DLH fight.
Hey, elmer, hope you've got that list of yours you couldn't access that day because you were in the library.

To say that I rather see Chavez talk than any DLHs fights is stupid? Well, let's leave it like that. I guess you like DLH so much that I cannot understand that. Maybe I am stupid about that, too. Well, quite frankly, I really would like to see anything than a DLH or any of today's top fighters FIGHTS...It is a WASTE OF TIME.

I would rather see a movie today or a college or football game on tv than a DLH or anything that have to do with his era.

My list of the top 100 greatest fighters had great reviews by these top notch boxing experts of boxrec.com. I respect them as long as they don't call me nor my antics names like "stupid" like you do. And I do not care. One thing is, I will not be disrespected by anyone in this forum, starting with you. OK?

1. I'll disrespect you and your foolish "antics" any time I feel like it, old man.
2. Yes, saying you'd rather see someone talk than a very good fighter fight is idiotic.
I'll keep going as long as you want, old man.

Il Duce wrote:Carlos Zarate,

The Greatest Bantamweight ever.....

Throw out the 'horrible' and 'fixed decision' versus Lupe Pintor in 1979.

A remarkable 118 lb. fighter.

No evidence it was fixed.

Il Duce wrote:OK then,,,,,

A horrible decision, that has an aroma of 'fix'.

Don't give me your "aroma" crap. If you want to say it's a horrible decision, that's one thing, but you have offered no evidence that it was fixed (that the judges were corrupted).

Il Duce wrote:Carlos Zarate did clean up the Bantamweight Division in 1975, on his way to a WBC Title shot,

By May 1976, the 25 year-old (Old for a Bantamweight) was 39-0-0 [38 KO's], with only the
talented Victor Ramirez (27-1-0 22 KO's) taking him the full 10-Round distance, back in January 1974.

And the point of that is? You make charges, get called out on them, and then just change the subject and bring up something wholly unrelated. Zarate's accomplishments by 1975 have nothing to do with whether or not a decision in 1979 was fixed.