BoxRec

darren_simion wrote:Some of you must know that Liston was only 6 ft and 1/2 and mainly fought at 215 lbs right?
He was good then because he had size over most of his opponents. Lennox would kill him.

Liston wasn't tall but was naturally a very big man, bigger than Mercer and at least as big as Rahman; difference was he came into fights in trim fighting condition unlike Rahman who always carried a lot of excess fat and muscle mass from heavy weight lifting.

pound per pound wrote:

dempseyfire wrote:I think Lewis was a great fighter (being in the all-time top 15 is no joke) but he did benefit from a relatively weak era. People remember the names and the hype of his fights, and he also gets credit now because by comparison the late 90s look like a Golden Age compared to now. But it was the 90s when you started seeing the slow, out of condition, plodding HW contender that has now become the norm, and Lewis took full advantage.

I'd also argue that Williams hit as hard as Lewis as well.

How is the era weak with Tyson, Holyfield, Mercer, Tua, and Klitschko? Lewis has wins over all of them. In truth, the 1990's was a strong era for heavyweight boxing, and one that evolved past 200 pound champions.

Tua and Mercer get remembered as being better than they were. Tua could get the late KOs over the B grade (Oquendo, Ruiz, Izon, Nicholson) but always got soundly outboxed when he stepped up to title calibre comp (Byrd, Lewis, Ibeabuchi) Tua couldn't even avoid being schooled by b grade Rahman twice.
Mercer had a great chin, good power, and a very good jab but his skills were never well developed and he had big stamina issues. Getting beat by Ferguson, 42 year old Holmes, gift vs Marion Wilson. I do think he edged Lennox but that's more of a knock on Lewis than a positive on Ray.

The Klitschkos weren't really a factor in the 1990s as in the late 90s they were busy bottom feeding in Germany. The first real class win by the Klitschkos was Wlad over Byrd in 2000.

Tyson post-prison wasn't a bad fighter but clearly a drop off his prime from the 80s. The fact that King wouldn't put him in with a live body (Evander was thought to be dead man walking when that fight was made) showed that.

dempseyfire wrote:

pound per pound wrote:

dempseyfire wrote:I think Lewis was a great fighter (being in the all-time top 15 is no joke) but he did benefit from a relatively weak era. People remember the names and the hype of his fights, and he also gets credit now because by comparison the late 90s look like a Golden Age compared to now. But it was the 90s when you started seeing the slow, out of condition, plodding HW contender that has now become the norm, and Lewis took full advantage.

I'd also argue that Williams hit as hard as Lewis as well.

How is the era weak with Tyson, Holyfield, Mercer, Tua, and Klitschko? Lewis has wins over all of them. In truth, the 1990's was a strong era for heavyweight boxing, and one that evolved past 200 pound champions.

Tua and Mercer get remembered as being better than they were. Tua could get the late KOs over the B grade (Oquendo, Ruiz, Izon, Nicholson) but always got soundly outboxed when he stepped up to title calibre comp (Byrd, Lewis, Ibeabuchi) Tua couldn't even avoid being schooled by b grade Rahman twice.
Mercer had a great chin, good power, and a very good jab but his skills were never well developed and he had big stamina issues. Getting beat by Ferguson, 42 year old Holmes, gift vs Marion Wilson. I do think he edged Lennox but that's more of a knock on Lewis than a positive on Ray.

The Klitschkos weren't really a factor in the 1990s as in the late 90s they were busy bottom feeding in Germany. The first real class win by the Klitschkos was Wlad over Byrd in 2000.

Tyson post-prison wasn't a bad fighter but clearly a drop off his prime from the 80s. The fact that King wouldn't put him in with a live body (Evander was thought to be dead man walking when that fight was made) showed that.

Tua didn't get schooled by Ibeabuchi, I scored that fight 115-113 in Tua's favor. Ibeabuchi's success in that bout is very widely exaggerated on a regular basis. I do agree though that Rahman soundly outboxed him. I missed the first bout, but I saw the rematch when Hasim Rahman, fat as all hell outboxed Tua and won 116-112 on my card.

pound per pound wrote:

dempseyfire wrote:I think Lewis was a great fighter (being in the all-time top 15 is no joke) but he did benefit from a relatively weak era. People remember the names and the hype of his fights, and he also gets credit now because by comparison the late 90s look like a Golden Age compared to now. But it was the 90s when you started seeing the slow, out of condition, plodding HW contender that has now become the norm, and Lewis took full advantage.

I'd also argue that Williams hit as hard as Lewis as well.

How is the era weak with Tyson, Holyfield, Mercer, Tua, and Klitschko? Lewis has wins over all of them. In truth, the 1990's was a strong era for heavyweight boxing, and one that evolved past 200 pound champions.

In twenty years this will look like the gospel .

Liston had the power of hurt Lewis... I'm not sure if the same could be said the other way about... As such, I'd heavily favour Sonny in this bout.