BoxRec

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:No way is Cooney in the top 10 Heavyweight punchers.

How can you say that? One more punch and Norton would have died. Single hardest left hook of all time.

HomicideHenry wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:No way is Cooney in the top 10 Heavyweight punchers.

How can you say that? One more punch and Norton would have died. Single hardest left hook of all time.

i will have to agree with the hardest left hook i have ever seen

HomicideHenry wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:No way is Cooney in the top 10 Heavyweight punchers.

How can you say that? One more punch and Norton would have died. Single hardest left hook of all time.

Because he doesn't belong in the conversation. A younger Norton was nearly decapitated by Scott Ledoux. He was completely shot against Cooney. Ruddock/Dokes was much nastier.

Gerry is one of those chic guys to call underrated, he isn't.

HomicideHenry wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:No way is Cooney in the top 10 Heavyweight punchers.

How can you say that? One more punch and Norton would have died. Single hardest left hook of all time.

Cooney could surely punch with that hook. Top 10 puncher? Who knows. Norton strangely crumbled often and quickly against guys who could belt, so maybe the Cooney knockout isn't real evidence. But remember, Foreman said that Cooney was the closest thing to a "brother in power" after stopping him.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Gerry is one of those chic guys to call underrated, he isn't.

Every time he stepped up, he got stepped on. I guess he hit pretty hard, but seemed fragile against the elite.

SenorPipino wrote:

HomicideHenry wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:No way is Cooney in the top 10 Heavyweight punchers.

How can you say that? One more punch and Norton would have died. Single hardest left hook of all time.

Cooney could surely punch with that hook. Top 10 puncher? Who knows. Norton strangely crumbled often and quickly against guys who could belt, so maybe the Cooney knockout isn't real evidence. But remember, Foreman said that Cooney was the closest thing to a "brother in power" after stopping him.

And that's an awesome compliment considering Gerry hadn't boxed in almost a decade when he fought George. He had George HURT, and I seldom ever seen Foreman hurt with a single blow. Tommy Morrison certainly didn't shake up George, neither did Holyfield, or Michael Moorer. Only Gerry Cooney and Ron Lyle ever hurt George Foreman. I'd like to think that had Gerry been the same Gerry who fought Larry Holmes, when he fought Spinks, he would have annihilated Spinks in the first round. Still, regardless, Cooney only lost to HOF'ers.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Gerry is one of those chic guys to call underrated, he isn't.

Agreed.

How can you say that? One more punch and Norton would have died. Single hardest left hook of all time.[/quote]
Cooney could surely punch with that hook. Top 10 puncher? Who knows. Norton strangely crumbled often and quickly against guys who could belt, so maybe the Cooney knockout isn't real evidence. But remember, Foreman said that Cooney was the closest thing to a "brother in power" after stopping him.[/quote]

And that's an awesome compliment considering Gerry hadn't boxed in almost a decade when he fought George. He had George HURT, and I seldom ever seen Foreman hurt with a single blow. Tommy Morrison certainly didn't shake up George, neither did Holyfield, or Michael Moorer. Only Gerry Cooney and Ron Lyle ever hurt George Foreman. I'd like to think that had Gerry been the same Gerry who fought Larry Holmes, when he fought Spinks, he would have annihilated Spinks in the first round. Still, regardless, Cooney only lost to HOF'ers.[/quote]

i agree.cooney could of been something special if he was managed better.
the layoffs also killed his chance against spinks and foreman.

He had poor balance and no right hand. In any era, he would have been the same thing. I think his best win was George Chaplin. That tells it all.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:He had poor balance and no right hand. In any era, he would have been the same thing. I think his best win was George Chaplin. That tells it all.

one of the few times i totally disagree with you

i remember earnie when he worked in "yates" wine lodge in liverpool as he was a bouncer their for many years,he was classed as a greeter but really he was a doorman and make no mistake that man got no trouble anyway i asked him once who hit him the hardest and he relpied sonny liston !! so i said you never fought him and he said no he never but when he was a young man he sparred with him in the late 60,s and he said that when liston hit you it was like being hit in the face with a sledge hammer and he never eased up on his sparring partner did liston but what a lovely guy earnie and use to talk to him for ages and he never refused anyone a photo or a autograph,a true gentleman

HomicideHenry wrote:
And that's an awesome compliment considering Gerry hadn't boxed in almost a decade when he fought George. He had George HURT, and I seldom ever seen Foreman hurt with a single blow. Tommy Morrison certainly didn't shake up George, neither did Holyfield, or Michael Moorer. Only Gerry Cooney and Ron Lyle ever hurt George Foreman. I'd like to think that had Gerry been the same Gerry who fought Larry Holmes, when he fought Spinks, he would have annihilated Spinks in the first round. Still, regardless, Cooney only lost to HOF'ers.

In an interview on Letterman Foreman said the hardest three punchers he ever fought were Cooney, Lyle and Cleveland Williams. He had just beaten Cooney at that point. He went on to say Cooneys left hook was harder than Fraziers.

Controversial wrote:

HomicideHenry wrote:
And that's an awesome compliment considering Gerry hadn't boxed in almost a decade when he fought George. He had George HURT, and I seldom ever seen Foreman hurt with a single blow. Tommy Morrison certainly didn't shake up George, neither did Holyfield, or Michael Moorer. Only Gerry Cooney and Ron Lyle ever hurt George Foreman. I'd like to think that had Gerry been the same Gerry who fought Larry Holmes, when he fought Spinks, he would have annihilated Spinks in the first round. Still, regardless, Cooney only lost to HOF'ers.

In an interview on Letterman Foreman said the hardest three punchers he ever fought were Cooney, Lyle and Cleveland Williams. He had just beaten Cooney at that point. He went on to say Cooneys left hook was harder than Fraziers.

That is true, George did say that. Mind you also, Muhammad Ali said the single hardest punch he ever took was from Frazier, not Shavers. So that speaks volumes, again, of Gerry Cooney's awesome power.

HomicideHenry wrote:
That is true, George did say that. Mind you also, Muhammad Ali said the single hardest punch he ever took was from Frazier, not Shavers. So that speaks volumes, again, of Gerry Cooney's awesome power.

The hardest punch hit with, and the hardest puncher faced, are different questions really though aren't they? Henry Coopers hook done more damage, and caused far more reaction than Frazier, Foreman, Liston, Williams, Lyle or Shavers ever managed against Ali.

Controversial wrote:

HomicideHenry wrote:
That is true, George did say that. Mind you also, Muhammad Ali said the single hardest punch he ever took was from Frazier, not Shavers. So that speaks volumes, again, of Gerry Cooney's awesome power.

Henry Coopers hook done more damage, and caused far more reaction than Frazier ever managed against Ali.

Read that back to yourself out loud.

Though I realize it's the premise of the thread, fighters are often the least honest when questions like these are posed. Does anyone really believe that Barrera was a tougher opponent for Manny than Morales or marquez?

Since we're on the subject of who fighters said hit them the hardest and whatnot I found this thread a while back that I though was real interesting.

Dude sparred Holyfield, Bowe, Foreman, Tua and Wlad and fought Lewis and Bowe in the ams and compares all their respective power.

http://dugger-s-ranch.2299399.n4.nabble ... 90601.html

J-C wrote:Since we're on the subject of who fighters said hit them the hardest and whatnot I found this thread a while back that I though was real interesting.

Dude sparred Holyfield, Bowe, Foreman, Tua and Wlad and fought Lewis and Bowe in the ams and compares all their respective power.

http://dugger-s-ranch.2299399.n4.nabble ... 90601.html

Thanks, that was cool.

Controversial wrote:

HomicideHenry wrote:
And that's an awesome compliment considering Gerry hadn't boxed in almost a decade when he fought George. He had George HURT, and I seldom ever seen Foreman hurt with a single blow. Tommy Morrison certainly didn't shake up George, neither did Holyfield, or Michael Moorer. Only Gerry Cooney and Ron Lyle ever hurt George Foreman. I'd like to think that had Gerry been the same Gerry who fought Larry Holmes, when he fought Spinks, he would have annihilated Spinks in the first round. Still, regardless, Cooney only lost to HOF'ers.

In an interview on Letterman Foreman said the hardest three punchers he ever fought were Cooney, Lyle and Cleveland Williams. He had just beaten Cooney at that point. He went on to say Cooneys left hook was harder than Fraziers.

Haven't gone to the records, but did Foreman ever fight Cleveland Williams? I'm pretty sure he didn't. Was he talking about a sparring session? They were both from the Houston area.

SenorPipino wrote: Haven't gone to the records, but did Foreman ever fight Cleveland Williams? I'm pretty sure he didn't. Was he talking about a sparring session? They were both from the Houston area.

No they never fought as pros, in the interview about Williams he says he "worked with" so obviously referring to sparring.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:
Read that back to yourself out loud.

Though I realize it's the premise of the thread, fighters are often the least honest when questions like these are posed. Does anyone really believe that Barrera was a tougher opponent for Manny than Morales or marquez?

No sure what you mean, why should I read it back?

All I'm meant was the hardest punch hit with doesn't have to be thrown by the hardest puncher. Of course Shavers, and others, hit harder than Henry Cooper but Cooper caught Ali flush, lifted him off his feet and had him pretty much out of it, he was lucky that punch wasn't in the first 20 seconds of the round. Ali is unlikely to call Cooper the hardest puncher he fought when he fought much bigger and noted puncher like Shavers, Liston, Foreman, Lyle, Williams, Frazier etc...

Controversial wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:
Read that back to yourself out loud.

Though I realize it's the premise of the thread, fighters are often the least honest when questions like these are posed. Does anyone really believe that Barrera was a tougher opponent for Manny than Morales or marquez?

No sure what you mean, why should I read it back?

All I'm meant was the hardest punch hit with doesn't have to be thrown by the hardest puncher. Of course Shavers, and others, hit harder than Henry Cooper but Cooper caught Ali flush, lifted him off his feet and had him pretty much out of it, he was lucky that punch wasn't in the first 20 seconds of the round. Ali is unlikely to call Cooper the hardest puncher he fought when he fought much bigger and noted puncher like Shavers, Liston, Foreman, Lyle, Williams, Frazier etc...

You're spot on with the sentiment, I think that's a poor example. Frazier had Ali in a very bad way.

A better example would be that Michael Bentt hit Tommy Morrison much harder than george Foreman.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:
You're spot on with the sentiment, I think that's a poor example. Frazier had Ali in a very bad way.

A better example would be that Michael Bentt hit Tommy Morrison much harder than george Foreman.

Sure Frazier hurt him, so did Shavers and others. However for a pure "one punch" effect I still think Coopers hook was the best punch anyone landed on Ali.

That's splitting hairs, I think he was more hurt in round 11 against Joe than he was for either of those knockdowns. Anyway, it's Raven time.

Raven fan here as well....but I understand we are the underdog....

Good point made on Cooper and Frazier

and.....I'd still go with the Shavers moment.....the difference to me was that Ali was too green to know what to do when Cooper hit him....When Shavers hit him, he had been well versed in the art of illusion....and he was still fully unable to conjure any sort of mask at least for a moment.

I've often thought that Shavers must have blinked, and not seen what the camera saw, what else would explain why he let Ali off the hook?