Did Tyson really Duck Foreman!?

[Rover]

The answer is NO.

Until the hangover dissipates, vision clarifies and the facts of the matter begin to dawn upon anyone willing to open mindedly take a good look at both the documented history, and the facts as they played out in real time.

I have clarity on the whole issue thank you very much. If your opinion differs, then so be it. The 'fact' is that Tyson would have become a laughing stock if he'd fought Foreman before prison.

Like when he fought Tillman?

[HomicideHenry]

The answer is NO.

Until the hangover dissipates, vision clarifies and the facts of the matter begin to dawn upon anyone willing to open mindedly take a good look at both the documented history, and the facts as they played out in real time.

I have clarity on the whole issue thank you very much. If your opinion differs, then so be it. The 'fact' is that Tyson would have become a laughing stock if he'd fought Foreman before prison.

That is far from the truth, because prior to Douglas/Tyson, Foreman was already gaining ground as a possible contender for the championship. If George kept winning, the thought process was that Tyson would fight Foreman, Holyfield, and take an easy defense against someone like Francesco Damiani. The three fight deal would have made Tyson something like $30 million dollars. Of course, Tyson lost to Douglas, Holyfield beat Douglas, and Foreman fought a brave fight in a losing effort to Holyfield. I think considering what we know of Mike's psyche and work ethic at that time, I'd venture to say Tyson would have lost to Foreman and Holyfield, because he knew deep in his heart he lost the love for this business even then. Like Tyson said after the McBride fight "My career was over when I lost to Buster Douglas", and he meant that. Tyson may arguably be the only worlds heavyweight champion, who never wanted to be it----like he says these days, he only boxed because of D'Amato and that he felt like he was pressured and forced. Willard and Baer to another extent, felt somewhat the same way about being a boxing champion. They liked the money, the fame, but hated the work and the responsibility.

[Rover]

Fighting Foreman would've made Tyson a laughing stock but not Douglas?
I'd say that perception wasn't much of a concern.

[Ambling Alp II]

If it wasn't for the title, Foreman had no interest in fighting Tyson.

[si7dog7]

I don't think Mike ducked anyone (even when he knew he didn't have it)

so in answer to the question
No

and seeing that D is next to "." on the keyboard
NO AGAIN

although previous posters have it right, the promotors may not have wanted this match at the time in question

[keithmoonhangover]

While Tyson was champion, he was called out by virtually every heavyweight out there - even Tommy Hearns called Tyson out. When Tyson lost to Douglas, Foreman was only ranked in the top ten by the WBC (#10). So when he was champion, Tyson did not duck Foreman.

When Tyson lost the title Foreman's attention shifted to Douglas and then Holyfield. Foreman wanted the title back and rightly so. After Foreman lost to Holyfield, Tyson had already signed for the rematch with Razor Ruddock, who was then thought of as a far more dangerous proposition to Foreman. After that fight, Tyson signed to fight Holyfield, but then went to prison. Before prison, Tyson did not duck Foreman.

When Tyson left prison, his single motivation was to get the belts back. After two warm ups, he beat the WBC champion and then the WBA, then he fought Holyfield twice. After that Tyson was banned from boxing and following that, Foreman was unofficially retired. After prison Tyson did not duck Foreman.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

While Tyson was champion, he was called out by virtually every heavyweight out there - even Tommy Hearns called Tyson out. When Tyson lost to Douglas, Foreman was only ranked in the top ten by the WBC (#10). So when he was champion, Tyson did not duck Foreman.

When Tyson lost the title Foreman's attention shifted to Douglas and then Holyfield. Foreman wanted the title back and rightly so. After Foreman lost to Holyfield, Tyson had already signed for the rematch with Razor Ruddock, who was then thought of as a far more dangerous proposition to Foreman. After that fight, Tyson signed to fight Holyfield, but then went to prison. Before prison, Tyson did not duck Foreman.

When Tyson left prison, his single motivation was to get the belts back. After two warm ups, he beat the WBC champion and then the WBA, then he fought Holyfield twice. After that Tyson was banned from boxing and following that, Foreman was unofficially retired. After prison Tyson did not duck Foreman.

Foreman wanted to fight Tyson after the doubleheader they had against Tillman & Rodrigues. That was the whole plan of that, they would either have one more card co-featured and then they would fight or they would set up the bout then. George's focus was very much still on Tyson, it would have been the richest fight in history. King wanted nothing to do with it.

[Rover]

While Tyson was champion, he was called out by virtually every heavyweight out there - even Tommy Hearns called Tyson out. When Tyson lost to Douglas, Foreman was only ranked in the top ten by the WBC (#10). So when he was champion, Tyson did not duck Foreman.

When Tyson lost the title Foreman's attention shifted to Douglas and then Holyfield. Foreman wanted the title back and rightly so. After Foreman lost to Holyfield, Tyson had already signed for the rematch with Razor Ruddock, who was then thought of as a far more dangerous proposition to Foreman. After that fight, Tyson signed to fight Holyfield, but then went to prison. Before prison, Tyson did not duck Foreman.

When Tyson left prison, his single motivation was to get the belts back. After two warm ups, he beat the WBC champion and then the WBA, then he fought Holyfield twice. After that Tyson was banned from boxing and following that, Foreman was unofficially retired. After prison Tyson did not duck Foreman.

Foreman wanted to fight Tyson after the doubleheader they had against Tillman & Rodrigues. That was the whole plan of that, they would either have one more card co-featured and then they would fight or they would set up the bout then. George's focus was very much still on Tyson, it would have been the richest fight in history. King wanted nothing to do with it.

Dead on target.

[keithmoonhangover]

While Tyson was champion, he was called out by virtually every heavyweight out there - even Tommy Hearns called Tyson out. When Tyson lost to Douglas, Foreman was only ranked in the top ten by the WBC (#10). So when he was champion, Tyson did not duck Foreman.

When Tyson lost the title Foreman's attention shifted to Douglas and then Holyfield. Foreman wanted the title back and rightly so. After Foreman lost to Holyfield, Tyson had already signed for the rematch with Razor Ruddock, who was then thought of as a far more dangerous proposition to Foreman. After that fight, Tyson signed to fight Holyfield, but then went to prison. Before prison, Tyson did not duck Foreman.

When Tyson left prison, his single motivation was to get the belts back. After two warm ups, he beat the WBC champion and then the WBA, then he fought Holyfield twice. After that Tyson was banned from boxing and following that, Foreman was unofficially retired. After prison Tyson did not duck Foreman.

Foreman wanted to fight Tyson after the doubleheader they had against Tillman & Rodrigues. That was the whole plan of that, they would either have one more card co-featured and then they would fight or they would set up the bout then. George's focus was very much still on Tyson, it would have been the richest fight in history. King wanted nothing to do with it.

Yes, that was the plan, but Foreman fought Holyfield instead and the rest is history.

[Rover]

While Tyson was champion, he was called out by virtually every heavyweight out there - even Tommy Hearns called Tyson out. When Tyson lost to Douglas, Foreman was only ranked in the top ten by the WBC (#10). So when he was champion, Tyson did not duck Foreman.

When Tyson lost the title Foreman's attention shifted to Douglas and then Holyfield. Foreman wanted the title back and rightly so. After Foreman lost to Holyfield, Tyson had already signed for the rematch with Razor Ruddock, who was then thought of as a far more dangerous proposition to Foreman. After that fight, Tyson signed to fight Holyfield, but then went to prison. Before prison, Tyson did not duck Foreman.

When Tyson left prison, his single motivation was to get the belts back. After two warm ups, he beat the WBC champion and then the WBA, then he fought Holyfield twice. After that Tyson was banned from boxing and following that, Foreman was unofficially retired. After prison Tyson did not duck Foreman.

Foreman wanted to fight Tyson after the doubleheader they had against Tillman & Rodrigues. That was the whole plan of that, they would either have one more card co-featured and then they would fight or they would set up the bout then. George's focus was very much still on Tyson, it would have been the richest fight in history. King wanted nothing to do with it.

Yes, that was the plan, but Foreman fought Holyfield instead and the rest is history.

Holy hadn't even won the title yet. George didn't fight him for about 10 months (after the June doubleheader in which he and Tyson were featured).

[SaadOffTheDeck]

While Tyson was champion, he was called out by virtually every heavyweight out there - even Tommy Hearns called Tyson out. When Tyson lost to Douglas, Foreman was only ranked in the top ten by the WBC (#10). So when he was champion, Tyson did not duck Foreman.

When Tyson lost the title Foreman's attention shifted to Douglas and then Holyfield. Foreman wanted the title back and rightly so. After Foreman lost to Holyfield, Tyson had already signed for the rematch with Razor Ruddock, who was then thought of as a far more dangerous proposition to Foreman. After that fight, Tyson signed to fight Holyfield, but then went to prison. Before prison, Tyson did not duck Foreman.

When Tyson left prison, his single motivation was to get the belts back. After two warm ups, he beat the WBC champion and then the WBA, then he fought Holyfield twice. After that Tyson was banned from boxing and following that, Foreman was unofficially retired. After prison Tyson did not duck Foreman.

Foreman wanted to fight Tyson after the doubleheader they had against Tillman & Rodrigues. That was the whole plan of that, they would either have one more card co-featured and then they would fight or they would set up the bout then. George's focus was very much still on Tyson, it would have been the richest fight in history. King wanted nothing to do with it.

Yes, that was the plan, but Foreman fought Holyfield instead and the rest is history.

No, King didn't want Mike to fight Foreman. There was plenty of time for them to fight in-between. George had a few fights before Evander and Tyson fought Stewart before the Ruddock fights. I don;t think Mike feared anyone, though he never thought he could beat Holyfield, Don didn't want him to face either of them.

Foreman would have fought Tyson instead of Holyfield if the opportunity was there. He was very confident he would beat him.

[keithmoonhangover]

Holy hadn't even won the title yet. George didn't fight him for about 10 months (after the June doubleheader in which he and Tyson were featured).

I don't think you're old enough to remember this Rover, but Razor Ruddock was considered a far more dangerous opponent than Foreman. When Tyson took that fight he was applauded in the media. At the time, the Foreman fight was seen as a bit of a freak show.

[keithmoonhangover]

You're just plucking all of this out the sky again Saad. You think King didn't want to make the fight. You think that Tyson never thought he could beat Holyfield.

You and I both know that Ruddock was regarded as a far more difficult opponent than Foreman and was also ranked higher by everyone. Maybe Foreman saw Holyfield as an easier fight? Who knows, you'll have to ask Big George.

[Rover]

Holy hadn't even won the title yet. George didn't fight him for about 10 months (after the June doubleheader in which he and Tyson were featured).

I don't think you're old enough to remember this Rover, but Razor Ruddock was considered a far more dangerous opponent than Foreman. When Tyson took that fight he was applauded in the media. At the time, the Foreman fight was seen as a bit of a freak show.

That's a non-response to my point.
Foreman fought on the same doubleheader in June.
Tyson/Ruddock occurred in March 91, and Foreman/Holy occurred that April.
In the meantime, Tyson had fought Stewart.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

You're just plucking all of this out the sky again Saad. You think King didn't want to make the fight. You think that Tyson never thought he could beat Holyfield.

You and I both know that Ruddock was regarded as a far more difficult opponent than Foreman and was also ranked higher by everyone. Maybe Foreman saw Holyfield as an easier fight? Who knows, you'll have to ask Big George.

King is just an hypothesis because I don't believe that Tyson was afraid of anyone. I've heard Mike say he never thought he could beat Holyfield out of his own mouth.

Foreman wanted Tyson, when that fell apart he went after Evander. The Foreman fight was supposed to occur the year before the Ruddock fights.

As for plucking things out of the air, that's exactly what you're doing. Only with a faulty timeline. You admit that the co-bill was supposed to lead to a fight between them but then you conveniently forge forward to the following year after this fell apart. It was the richest fight in history, they don't start and make the effort to set that up and have it fall apart after two perfectly destructive set up fights unless one of the teams backs off. I'm not surprised you're trying to put it on Foreman. History suggests otherwise.

[keithmoonhangover]

Holy hadn't even won the title yet. George didn't fight him for about 10 months (after the June doubleheader in which he and Tyson were featured).

I don't think you're old enough to remember this Rover, but Razor Ruddock was considered a far more dangerous opponent than Foreman. When Tyson took that fight he was applauded in the media. At the time, the Foreman fight was seen as a bit of a freak show.

That's a non-response to my point.
Foreman fought on the same doubleheader in June.
Tyson/Ruddock occurred in March 91, and Foreman/Holy occurred that April.
In the meantime, Tyson had fought Stewart.

Yes, and Stewart was then regarded as a very tough test, having given Holyfield a tough time in his only loss. He was a young, tough, hard hitting prospect. While Foreman had been fighting Ken Lakusta and Terry Armstrong.

By the time Tyson fought Stewart, Holyfield-Foreman was pretty much a done deal.

There is not one bit of evidence that Foreman was ducked by Tyson. If there is, then present it.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Foreman/Tyson would have happened when he fought Stewart, that was only a month or so after Holyfield/Douglas.

Obviously this is a waste of time. You love you some Tyson. Cool

[keithmoonhangover]

You're just plucking all of this out the sky again Saad. You think King didn't want to make the fight. You think that Tyson never thought he could beat Holyfield.

You and I both know that Ruddock was regarded as a far more difficult opponent than Foreman and was also ranked higher by everyone. Maybe Foreman saw Holyfield as an easier fight? Who knows, you'll have to ask Big George.

King is just an hypothesis because I don't believe that Tyson was afraid of anyone. I've heard Mike say he never thought he could beat Holyfield out of his own mouth.

Foreman wanted Tyson, when that fell apart he went after Evander. The Foreman fight was supposed to occur the year before the Ruddock fights.

As for plucking things out of the air, that's exactly what you're doing. Only with a faulty timeline. You admit that the co-bill was supposed to lead to a fight between them but then you conveniently forge forward to the following year after this fell apart. It was the richest fight in history, they don't start and make the effort to set that up and have it fall apart after two perfectly destructive set up fights unless one of the teams backs off. I'm not surprised you're trying to put it on Foreman. History suggests otherwise.

The co-bill was supposed to be two fights, but the second one didn't materialize. Was that Foreman's fault or Tyson's? Neither of us know for certain. Either way, Foreman went after Holyfield and Tyson fought a seemingly much tougher opponent in Ruddock.

At the time did you honestly think that Foreman was a harder fight than Ruddock?

[Ezzard]

I’ve always found this difficult to believe but it’s a rumour that persists o there may be something in it.

Foreman was an obese old man who could still dig at the very top level. Tyson would have scrambled him. It would not have been a nice fight to watch. Tyson beat up a fat old Larry Holmes. Foreman was less mobile and more open. He could have landed the curtain closer…maybe would have in his prime…but at this point the fight honestly seemed like a total mismatch to me. I didn’t want to see it happen. I didn’t want to see cuddly old George smashed up.

But, like I say, this idea that Tyson feared old Foreman seems to come from many sources…

[SaadOffTheDeck]

You're just plucking all of this out the sky again Saad. You think King didn't want to make the fight. You think that Tyson never thought he could beat Holyfield.

You and I both know that Ruddock was regarded as a far more difficult opponent than Foreman and was also ranked higher by everyone. Maybe Foreman saw Holyfield as an easier fight? Who knows, you'll have to ask Big George.

King is just an hypothesis because I don't believe that Tyson was afraid of anyone. I've heard Mike say he never thought he could beat Holyfield out of his own mouth.

Foreman wanted Tyson, when that fell apart he went after Evander. The Foreman fight was supposed to occur the year before the Ruddock fights.

As for plucking things out of the air, that's exactly what you're doing. Only with a faulty timeline. You admit that the co-bill was supposed to lead to a fight between them but then you conveniently forge forward to the following year after this fell apart. It was the richest fight in history, they don't start and make the effort to set that up and have it fall apart after two perfectly destructive set up fights unless one of the teams backs off. I'm not surprised you're trying to put it on Foreman. History suggests otherwise.

The co-bill was supposed to be two fights, but the second one didn't materialize. Was that Foreman's fault or Tyson's? Neither of us know for certain. Either way, Foreman went after Holyfield and Tyson fought a seemingly much tougher opponent in Ruddock.

At the time did you honestly think that Foreman was a harder fight than Ruddock?

[keithmoonhangover]

Foreman/Tyson would have happened when he fought Stewart, that was only a month or so after Holyfield/Douglas.

Obviously this is a waste of time. You love you some Tyson. Cool

I was a Holyfield fan and ain't got much love for Tyson.

And no, there were supposed to be two double headers before Tyson-Foreman, that was what was announced. How is that Tyson ducking Foreman?

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Foreman/Tyson would have happened when he fought Stewart, that was only a month or so after Holyfield/Douglas.

Obviously this is a waste of time. You love you some Tyson. Cool

I was a Holyfield fan and ain't got much love for Tyson.

And no, there were supposed to be two double headers before Tyson-Foreman, that was what was announced. How is that Tyson ducking Foreman?

How many times do you want me to type it? Time to move on, we will never agree.

[keithmoonhangover]

Foreman/Tyson would have happened when he fought Stewart, that was only a month or so after Holyfield/Douglas.

Obviously this is a waste of time. You love you some Tyson. Cool

I was a Holyfield fan and ain't got much love for Tyson.

And no, there were supposed to be two double headers before Tyson-Foreman, that was what was announced. How is that Tyson ducking Foreman?

How many times do you want me to type it? Time to move on, we will never agree.

You never answered the question about Ruddock or Foreman being a tougher fight at the time....

[Rover]

Foreman/Holy was not basically done when Tyson signed to fight Stewart. Holyfield won the title in October 1990, and Tyson fought Stewart on December 8. Obviously, the Stewart fight had been signed well before that.

[Rover]

Yes, and Stewart was then regarded as a very tough test, having given Holyfield a tough time in his only loss. He was a young, tough, hard hitting prospect. While Foreman had been fighting Ken Lakusta and Terry Armstrong.

By the time Tyson fought Stewart, Holyfield-Foreman was pretty much a done deal.

There is not one bit of evidence that Foreman was ducked by Tyson. If there is, then present it.[/quote]
Tyson signed for Stewart before Foreman signed to fight Holyfield.
And Saad and I are blaming King, not Tyson.