Cooney vs Holmes, RBR

[HomicideHenry]

All I know is, the man who fought Larry Holmes, would have flattened Michael Spinks in one round.

Rather than ask WHY, am going to explain. Here's my thoughts on the situation. Spinks wasn't into the heavyweight division to really be a dominate champion. Had that been the case, he would of fought Tony Tucker in his maiden defense. Instead, he ducked Tucker, and dropped his IBF strap. He held the Linear title and the RING magazine title, and he chose to 'defend' these against the underalded Swede, and of course Cooney. Gerry was considered safe. He fought twice in five years against Eddie Gregg and George Chaplin (correct me if I am wrong on this), and was a known head case and party animal at this time; he was big on the coke and the bottle. The only logic in him getting a shot at Spinks was because Cooney had fought Holmes, whom Spinks beat for the strap. Outside of the size disparity, there was not other reason for the match to happen.

The only redeeming part of this fight was that since Cooney was a name, and some felt Spinks may of been too small for him, that Spinks/Cooney made alot of money for Spinks. Why face a Tony Tucker, or Mike Tyson, when you can fight Cooney for a couple million dollars? The inactivity, drug abuse, and mental fragility showed following the first round, with Cooney even looking at his corner as if to say 'Help me, I'm lost'. He had no business in that ring with Spinks at that time. The Cooney who fought Holmes had 9 straight kayos, was full blown with confidence, fought the best fight of his career, and fought harder in defeat. He certainly didn't quit, Valle threw in the towel to save him. Cooney would of went on until he was kayoed cold.

The Cooney who showed up with Spinks..... he had the quitting mindset. He lacked a killer instinct. He lacked everything. Spinks may as well of been fighting a taxi cab driver that night. And even that version of Cooney was dangerous in round one. =Shrugs= To each their own, but I think Cooney at his peak (the Holmes fight) would have beaten Spinks by knockout.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Spinks was too good for Cooney, period.

[MEISINGER]

All I know is, the man who fought Larry Holmes, would have flattened Michael Spinks in one round.

Rather than ask WHY, am going to explain. Here's my thoughts on the situation. Spinks wasn't into the heavyweight division to really be a dominate champion. Had that been the case, he would of fought Tony Tucker in his maiden defense. Instead, he ducked Tucker, and dropped his IBF strap. He held the Linear title and the RING magazine title, and he chose to 'defend' these against the underalded Swede, and of course Cooney. Gerry was considered safe. He fought twice in five years against Eddie Gregg and George Chaplin (correct me if I am wrong on this), and was a known head case and party animal at this time; he was big on the coke and the bottle. The only logic in him getting a shot at Spinks was because Cooney had fought Holmes, whom Spinks beat for the strap. Outside of the size disparity, there was not other reason for the match to happen.

The only redeeming part of this fight was that since Cooney was a name, and some felt Spinks may of been too small for him, that Spinks/Cooney made alot of money for Spinks. Why face a Tony Tucker, or Mike Tyson, when you can fight Cooney for a couple million dollars? The inactivity, drug abuse, and mental fragility showed following the first round, with Cooney even looking at his corner as if to say 'Help me, I'm lost'. He had no business in that ring with Spinks at that time. The Cooney who fought Holmes had 9 straight kayos, was full blown with confidence, fought the best fight of his career, and fought harder in defeat. He certainly didn't quit, Valle threw in the towel to save him. Cooney would of went on until he was kayoed cold.

The Cooney who showed up with Spinks..... he had the quitting mindset. He lacked a killer instinct. He lacked everything. Spinks may as well of been fighting a taxi cab driver that night. And even that version of Cooney was dangerous in round one. =Shrugs= To each their own, but I think Cooney at his peak (the Holmes fight) would have beaten Spinks by knockout.

i would not bet on one round but i would lay big money on
the first 5 rounds
cooney was that good.......holmes was just better

[HomicideHenry]

At that point and time yes, that's evident. But what will never be known is whether Spinks could have beaten the Cooney who fought Holmes, Norton, Young, etc.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Cooney was ass. Spinks awkward movement avoids the hook for the three or four rounds it was a problem and then he pastes Gerry. It probably goes the distance, but Cooney loses a decisive decision. Michael was just in a different league.

[MEISINGER]

At that point and time yes, that's evident. But what will never be known is whether Spinks could have beaten the Cooney who fought Holmes, Norton, Young, etc.

imho i feel cooney of 80-82 would of knocked out peak spinks

[HomicideHenry]

At that point and time yes, that's evident. But what will never be known is whether Spinks could have beaten the Cooney who fought Holmes, Norton, Young, etc.

imho i feel cooney of 80-82 would of knocked out peak spinks

I agree. Maybe me saying 'one round' is ridiculous, but I dont think Spinks would of been able to of withstood the power and ferocity of a peak Cooney.

Cooney was ass. Spinks awkward movement avoids the hook for the three or four rounds it was a problem and then he pastes Gerry. It probably goes the distance, but Cooney loses a decisive decision. Michael was just in a different league.

They said the same of Spinks when he fought Tyson, that his herky jerky movements and blistering speed would have offset anything Tyson would of done. 91 seconds later, Tyson is the undisputed champion of the world. Spinks was not a willing participant that night; and he was only willing to face Cooney because of all the conditions that were on Gerry at the time. Prime Cooney, I think Michael Spinks would of had an unhealthy level of fear. And who would blame him? Cooney was a monster.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Spinks was finished when he fought Tyson, and Cooney was no Tyson. He wouldn't have had an ounce of fear facing Gerry, and with good reason, Gerry was a big teddy bear who had nothing to bother Spinks with. Easy fight to call.

I had picked Spinks over Tyson during the time when there was no fight. When it finally was singed I picked Mike but figured Spinks could give him some trouble. I turned to my friend before the fight and told him Tyson KO1. His knees were shot and he was scared. Thinking Gerry Cooney could do that to a prime Spinks is a joke.

[HomicideHenry]

Spinks was finished when he fought Tyson, and Cooney was no Tyson. He wouldn't have had an ounce of fear facing Gerry, and with good reason, Gerry was a big teddy bear who had nothing to bother Spinks with. Easy fight to call.

I had picked Spinks over Tyson during the time when there was no fight. When it finally was singed I picked Mike but figured Spinks could give him some trouble. I turned to my friend before the fight and told him Tyson KO1. His knees were shot and he was scared. Thinking Gerry Cooney could do that to a prime Spinks is a joke.

One fight later and you're finished? Really?

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Spinks was finished when he fought Tyson, and Cooney was no Tyson. He wouldn't have had an ounce of fear facing Gerry, and with good reason, Gerry was a big teddy bear who had nothing to bother Spinks with. Easy fight to call.

I had picked Spinks over Tyson during the time when there was no fight. When it finally was singed I picked Mike but figured Spinks could give him some trouble. I turned to my friend before the fight and told him Tyson KO1. His knees were shot and he was scared. Thinking Gerry Cooney could do that to a prime Spinks is a joke.

One fight later and you're finished? Really?

Yup, his knees were ruined. He was past his best when he whipped Gerry's ass too. The Holmes fights were the end of his peak, if not sooner, too many knee problems and too much time off. It happens that way Henry, Cooney just isn't the kind of fighter that could exploit it.

If you want the Cooney of the Holmes fight against the ghost of Spinks that fought Tyson, he could have won. That's like picking Gerry over Ali and then saying the Holmes version. Any other Michael beats any Cooney with room to spare. He just wasn't good enough.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

For the record, I thought Chaplin was the most impressive win of Cooney's career. Though I seem to recall a premature stoppage.

[HomicideHenry]

Spinks was finished when he fought Tyson, and Cooney was no Tyson. He wouldn't have had an ounce of fear facing Gerry, and with good reason, Gerry was a big teddy bear who had nothing to bother Spinks with. Easy fight to call.

I had picked Spinks over Tyson during the time when there was no fight. When it finally was singed I picked Mike but figured Spinks could give him some trouble. I turned to my friend before the fight and told him Tyson KO1. His knees were shot and he was scared. Thinking Gerry Cooney could do that to a prime Spinks is a joke.

One fight later and you're finished? Really?

Yup, his knees were ruined. He was past his best when he whipped Gerry's ass too. The Holmes fights were the end of his peak, too many knee problems and too much time off. It happens that way Henry, Cooney just isn't the kind of fighter that could exploit it.

If you want the Cooney of the Holmes fight against the ghost of Spinks that fought Tyson, he could have won. That's like picking Gerry over Ali and then saying the Holmes version. Any other Michael beats any Cooney with room to spare. He just wasn't good enough.

I wouldn't say Spinks was THAT far off (i.e. Ali/Holmes), he was certainly capable of fighting anyone in the division. Just when it came to Tyson, he was already a defeated man before signing the contract. Fear is a powerful thing. He didn't fight the same one iota when he got in that ring with Tyson, he was like paralysed. Gone was the fast hands, the movements, etc. He just froze up. As for the Holmes' fights, he just picked on a man who was on his way out, and in the rematch was given a gift decision. After that he knew he wasn't quite made for the division; hence why he ducked Tucker and anyone else who was legit. I think Spinks was way better than Roy Jones, but imho it's the same premise as when Jones picked on Ruiz, cus he was the weakest link in the chain. Talks of him facing Holyfield and Tyson came and went, and he returned to 175 rather than face Lennox Lewis or Byrd. Spinks was the same, except he made it last longer than a one night experiment. Spinks was never a legitimite heavyweight, its as simple as that. HOWEVER.... I could imagine what ass he may of kicked in the gym while preparing for some of these heavyweight matches; when people talk smack about Bob Foster, I tend to remind them that while he was not a good heavyweight, he was knocking out heavyweights in the gym.

[HomicideHenry]

For the record, I thought Chaplin was the most impressive win of Cooney's career. Though I seem to recall a premature stoppage.

I think Young was, only because Young still had something left in the tank, and to this day Cooney says the man with the best defense he ever fought was Young. Even at the advanced end of his career, Young was hard to hit with a clean shot.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

One fight later and you're finished? Really?

Yup, his knees were ruined. He was past his best when he whipped Gerry's ass too. The Holmes fights were the end of his peak, too many knee problems and too much time off. It happens that way Henry, Cooney just isn't the kind of fighter that could exploit it.

If you want the Cooney of the Holmes fight against the ghost of Spinks that fought Tyson, he could have won. That's like picking Gerry over Ali and then saying the Holmes version. Any other Michael beats any Cooney with room to spare. He just wasn't good enough.

As for the Holmes' fights, he just picked on a man who was on his way out

Your unintentional humor is classic stuff. That's even funnier than Cooney KO1.

[HomicideHenry]

It's true. Larry was older, and was taking more hits. He struggled with 'Spoon and Berbick. Spinks only made the move to heavyweight because of the money and the fact Holmes was older, slower. Had it been Larry Holmes of 1979-1982, Spinks never would of made his move on the division.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

For the record, I thought Chaplin was the most impressive win of Cooney's career. Though I seem to recall a premature stoppage.

I think Young was, only because Young still had something left in the tank, and to this day Cooney says the man with the best defense he ever fought was Young. Even at the advanced end of his career, Young was hard to hit with a clean shot.

Jimmy was shot and fat, though Chaplin was also well past his best days so that's a fair answer. It really goes to show how woeful Cooney's resume is. He never did much of anything, he made some good money though.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

It's true. Larry was older, and was taking more hits. He struggled with 'Spoon and Berbick. Spinks only made the move to heavyweight because of the money and the fact Holmes was older, slower. Had it been Larry Holmes of 1979-1982, Spinks never would of made his move on the division.

Gerry Cooney wouldn't have went near Norton,Lyle or Young if they weren't fit for a nursing home.

[HomicideHenry]

For the record, I thought Chaplin was the most impressive win of Cooney's career. Though I seem to recall a premature stoppage.

I think Young was, only because Young still had something left in the tank, and to this day Cooney says the man with the best defense he ever fought was Young. Even at the advanced end of his career, Young was hard to hit with a clean shot.

Jimmy was shot and fat, though Chaplin was also well past his best days so that's a fair answer. It really goes to show how woeful Cooney's resume is. He never did much of anything, he made some good money though.

Team Cooney was arguably the greatest marketing machine in modern heavyweight history. I do admit, Cooney did go farther than someone with a similar record ought to of, but man he proved he was no bum or flunky when he took on Holmes. Two-three more years, taking tougher tests, he would of been champion. Awesome power, and for being so damn big what impressed me most was just how fast Cooney could throw combos with that left: head to body, in a split second. Amazing stuff.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I think Young was, only because Young still had something left in the tank, and to this day Cooney says the man with the best defense he ever fought was Young. Even at the advanced end of his career, Young was hard to hit with a clean shot.

Jimmy was shot and fat, though Chaplin was also well past his best days so that's a fair answer. It really goes to show how woeful Cooney's resume is. He never did much of anything, he made some good money though.

Team Cooney was arguably the greatest marketing machine in modern heavyweight history. I do admit, Cooney did go farther than someone with a similar record ought to of, but man he proved he was no bum or flunky when he took on Holmes. Two-three more years, taking tougher tests, he would of been champion. Awesome power, and for being so damn big what impressed me most was just how fast Cooney could throw combos with that left: head to body, in a split second. Amazing stuff.

You love you some Cooney, no doubt about that. He wasn't nearly as good as you think he was. Holmes clowned him, just like I knew he would. They definitely did a great job of marketing. Good for them. That doesn't help him beat people that were too good for him. And there are a lot of them.

Cooney/Biggs would be a nice fight.

[HomicideHenry]

You love you some Cooney, no doubt about that. He wasn't nearly as good as you think he was. Holmes clowned him, just like I knew he would. They definitely did a great job of marketing. Good for them. That doesn't help him beat people that were too good for him. And there are a lot of them.

Cooney/Biggs would be a nice fight.

Cooney definately was better than Tommy Morrison and other 'white hopes' that came down the pipe over the last 125 years of boxing. Just my two cents. I say tomato, you say tomata. To each their own opinions.

[Rover]

I've got:

1 - Cooney 10-9
2 - Holmes 10-8 (knock-down)
3 - Even 10-10
4 - Cooney 10-9
5 - Cooney 10-9
6 - Holmes 10-9
7 - Holmes 10-9
8 - Holmes 10-9
9 - Holmes 10-9
10 - Even 10-10
11 - Cooney 9-9 (point off for low blows)
12 - Holmes 10-9
13 - Holmes TKO

116-112 (6-3-3) Holmes after 12 - beautiful fight by Larry, no disgrace for Cooney.

Cooney had 3 points taken.

I like this card. If this was a 12 round match, I wonder how the judges would have scored it. Holmes via Split Dec?

Holmes was ahead on all three cards because of the deductions. I believe that without them Cooney would have been ahead on two of them.

[Rover]

Spinks was too good for Cooney, period.

[Rover]

Spinks was finished when he fought Tyson, and Cooney was no Tyson. He wouldn't have had an ounce of fear facing Gerry, and with good reason, Gerry was a big teddy bear who had nothing to bother Spinks with. Easy fight to call.

I had picked Spinks over Tyson during the time when there was no fight. When it finally was singed I picked Mike but figured Spinks could give him some trouble. I turned to my friend before the fight and told him Tyson KO1. His knees were shot and he was scared. Thinking Gerry Cooney could do that to a prime Spinks is a joke.

[Rover]

It's true. Larry was older, and was taking more hits. He struggled with 'Spoon and Berbick. Spinks only made the move to heavyweight because of the money and the fact Holmes was older, slower. Had it been Larry Holmes of 1979-1982, Spinks never would of made his move on the division.

Gerry Cooney wouldn't have went near Norton,Lyle or Young if they weren't fit for a nursing home.

Cooney probably would have, but the Wacko Twins def wouldn't have.