BoxRec

The great Marvelous Marvin Hagler took too many vicious shots from the Hitman and did not go down. The Duran shot would not make any difference. Hagler had a steely chin.

SamWise72 wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Hagler would laugh at Julian Jackson.

I'm not seeing that. He'd beat him handily, but Jackson is going to land something that more than stings. A shot like he landed on Herol, which you don't see coming? I reckon that separates anyone from their senses. You know, despite his 12 rounds with McCallum, people think of Herol as chinny because of that one shot, from the hardest punching middleweight in history.

Meh, Jackson didn't pack the same wallop at Middleweight. He certainly didn't punch any harder than Hearns or Mugabi. Hagler would have walked through him like butter.

Hagler never was so much as downed in his career, and he faced the best there was. Tommy Hearns came the closest, but I just don't even see THAT right hand he landed on Duran being able to drop Marvin; but even if it did Hagler had such great powers of recooperation that he would have weathered the storm and would have kayoed Tommy anyways. Tough as Hagler was, it makes me wonder just how far that punch resistance would have taken him @ 168 and 175.

Didnt a ref rule once that he had been KD'd?

BoxBuzz wrote:Didnt a ref rule once that he had been KD'd?

Yes, against Juan Roldan.

It's on the record as a KD, but it was a real KD as Hagler slipped.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

SamWise72 wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Hagler would laugh at Julian Jackson.

I'm not seeing that. He'd beat him handily, but Jackson is going to land something that more than stings. A shot like he landed on Herol, which you don't see coming? I reckon that separates anyone from their senses. You know, despite his 12 rounds with McCallum, people think of Herol as chinny because of that one shot, from the hardest punching middleweight in history.

Meh, Jackson didn't pack the same wallop at Middleweight. He certainly didn't punch any harder than Hearns or Mugabi. Hagler would have walked through him like butter.

great post. People alive and watching boxing in 85-86 recall mugabe was on an incredible
Knockout streak he was 26-0 26 kayoes and the new york press were saying he would ko hearns and they had him in the p 4 p top 5!!!!!!.
He did hit marvin with some hellacious shots and jackson wasnt really any better than the summer 86 mugabi before marvin damaged him permanently.

mugabi wrote:
great post. People alive and watching boxing in 85-86 recall mugabe was on an incredible
Knockout streak he was 26-0 26 kayoes and the new york press were saying he would ko hearns and they had him in the p 4 p top 5!!!!!!.
He did hit marvin with some hellacious shots and jackson wasnt really any better than the summer 86 mugabi before marvin damaged him permanently.

that was a pretty brutal fight with your namesake right in it with Hagler for 11 rounds. 1 or 2 in it? and you are right he wasn't the same after.
Straight back to natural Light Middleweight he was unlucky in his next attempt versus Duane "Shock the world" Thomas. However, he did get a taste of glory against Jaquot a few years later.
If people haven't seen this fight (MMH v John The Beast Mugabi -check it out (esp round 6). I personally think this fight, persuaded SRL to definately go for the Hagler fight (maybe sensing a slow down in the marvellous one)

si7dog7 wrote:

mugabi wrote:
great post. People alive and watching boxing in 85-86 recall mugabe was on an incredible
Knockout streak he was 26-0 26 kayoes and the new york press were saying he would ko hearns and they had him in the p 4 p top 5!!!!!!.
He did hit marvin with some hellacious shots and jackson wasnt really any better than the summer 86 mugabi before marvin damaged him permanently.

that was a pretty brutal fight with your namesake right in it with Hagler for 11 rounds. 1 or 2 in it? and you are right he wasn't the same after.
Straight back to natural Light Middleweight he was unlucky in his next attempt versus Duane "Shock the world" Thomas. However, he did get a taste of glory against Jaquot a few years later.
If people haven't seen this fight (MMH v John The Beast Mugabi -check it out (esp round 6). I personally think this fight, persuaded SRL to definately go for the Hagler fight (maybe sensing a slow down in the marvellous one)

Leonard was already well in preparation to fight Marvin with live fights in the gym against guys like Quincy Taylor. The Duran fight is what did it, Roberto leaned over and told him he could beat him.

yeah I get that
I remember Ray on commentary, saying he would make Marvin pay, or words to that effect.

I think, like I said previously, is that this is what made him definately go for it.

You guys will know better than me, but I always felt that Ray marched to his own drum. If he didn't fancy it, he wouldn't have done it, regardless of promotors/hard cash.

He took a risk anyways in taking on Hagler, maybe the Mugabi fight re-enforced his total conviction that the risk was manageable.

As a last question. Would Ray have taken on Hagler immediately after Hearns was starched by MMH?

But now I am waaaaay of topic.

Your thoughts are needed sir
cheers

He wouldn't have taken on Hearns immediately after he was starched by Hagler. Ray was as calculating as it gets.

I think there's a small chance that Hagler would go down, but be up again after a short count and making Hearns pay.

More likely is that Hearns's hand would break against Hagler's iron skull, Hagler would be momentarily dazed but wouldn't have gone down.

Too bad this can't be recreated exactly.

I'd get some great odds from most of you that are so sure Marvin stays up, bet my anemic retirement acct, and live happily ever.

Not saying Marvin gets counted out, but I think he goes down for a short count. That was a hell of a shot and it landed perfectly. Most everyone's brain receives a short circuit after that one.

Not according to most everyone on here, Nancy. Me included.

It's simple....

If Hagler sees it coming he survives it.

If he doesn't see it coming, then it's over.

Giancarlo wrote:Not according to most everyone on here, Nancy. Me included.

"Me included"


As if I give a rat's ass about your opinion.

si7dog7 wrote:

mugabi wrote:
great post. People alive and watching boxing in 85-86 recall mugabe was on an incredible
Knockout streak he was 26-0 26 kayoes and the new york press were saying he would ko hearns and they had him in the p 4 p top 5!!!!!!.
He did hit marvin with some hellacious shots and jackson wasnt really any better than the summer 86 mugabi before marvin damaged him permanently.

that was a pretty brutal fight with your namesake right in it with Hagler for 11 rounds. 1 or 2 in it? and you are right he wasn't the same after.
Straight back to natural Light Middleweight he was unlucky in his next attempt versus Duane "Shock the world" Thomas. However, he did get a taste of glory against Jaquot a few years later.
If people haven't seen this fight (MMH v John The Beast Mugabi -check it out (esp round 6). I personally think this fight, persuaded SRL to definately go for the Hagler fight (maybe sensing a slow down in the marvellous one)

I agree with the bold bit.

Hagler was quite slow against Hearns, more so than previously, but against Mugabi, his speed had totally gone.

Had Marvin been in his prime (speed wise), he would have destroyed Mugabi inside of 5 rounds, but due to his lack of speed, it made the fight tougher than it needed to be.

It was as this point that Leonard decided the time was right to take on Hagler.

Leonard rightly decreed that his superior speed would be the difference between the two if they fought.

Syntax Error wrote:

si7dog7 wrote:

mugabi wrote:
great post. People alive and watching boxing in 85-86 recall mugabe was on an incredible
Knockout streak he was 26-0 26 kayoes and the new york press were saying he would ko hearns and they had him in the p 4 p top 5!!!!!!.
He did hit marvin with some hellacious shots and jackson wasnt really any better than the summer 86 mugabi before marvin damaged him permanently.

that was a pretty brutal fight with your namesake right in it with Hagler for 11 rounds. 1 or 2 in it? and you are right he wasn't the same after.
Straight back to natural Light Middleweight he was unlucky in his next attempt versus Duane "Shock the world" Thomas. However, he did get a taste of glory against Jaquot a few years later.
If people haven't seen this fight (MMH v John The Beast Mugabi -check it out (esp round 6). I personally think this fight, persuaded SRL to definately go for the Hagler fight (maybe sensing a slow down in the marvellous one)

Had Marvin been in his prime (speed wise), he would have destroyed Mugabi inside of 5 rounds, but due to his lack of speed, it made the fight tougher than it needed to be.

I can't agree with all of this. Mugabi was highly determined and he took an immense amount of punishment. Marvin could have boxed more in his prime(which was probably before he won the title) but he wouldn't have finished him earlier. I'll never forget the bullshit Duff was spouting in the corner, acting like Mugabi wasn't giving his all during that epic war.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Nothing

This. When the smoke cleared, Marvin would be there smiling, and then tear it up.Fiercely.

mugabi wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Hagler would laugh at Julian Jackson.

Meh, Jackson didn't pack the same wallop at Middleweight. He certainly didn't punch any harder than Hearns or Mugabi. Hagler would have walked through him like butter.

great post. People alive and watching boxing in 85-86 recall mugabe was on an incredible
Knockout streak he was 26-0 26 kayoes and the new york press were saying he would ko hearns and they had him in the p 4 p top 5!!!!!!.
He did hit marvin with some hellacious shots and jackson wasnt really any better than the summer 86 mugabi before marvin damaged him permanently.

Mugabi wasn't knocking out the calibre of fighter Jackson was. IMO, Jackson hit harder than Mugabi, and whilst Hearns could generate lightning strikes like Jackson's, he didn't do so as often. Jsckson or Hearns land on any middleweight without them seeing it coming, they're going down. Hagler, almost ubuquely, is gettibg up again.

SamWise72 wrote:

mugabi wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote: Meh, Jackson didn't pack the same wallop at Middleweight. He certainly didn't punch any harder than Hearns or Mugabi. Hagler would have walked through him like butter.

great post. People alive and watching boxing in 85-86 recall mugabe was on an incredible
Knockout streak he was 26-0 26 kayoes and the new york press were saying he would ko hearns and they had him in the p 4 p top 5!!!!!!.
He did hit marvin with some hellacious shots and jackson wasnt really any better than the summer 86 mugabi before marvin damaged him permanently.

Mugabi wasn't knocking out the calibre of fighter Jackson was. IMO, Jackson hit harder than Mugabi, and whilst Hearns could generate lightning strikes like Jackson's, he didn't do so as often. Jsckson or Hearns land on any middleweight without them seeing it coming, they're going down. Hagler, almost ubuquely, is gettibg up again.

Jackson couldn't stop Thomas Tate and he was drilling him with bombs.

All quality punchers.

Could Jackson and Mugabi have bounced Andries around like Hearns did? Not so sure.

About Hagler-Mugabi – very exciting. Both men punching it out…but from memory my card wasn’t that close…Hagler seemed to have the best of a number of highly competitive rounds.

Ezzard wrote:All quality punchers.

Could Jackson and Mugabi have bounced Andries around like Hearns did? Not so sure.

About Hagler-Mugabi – very exciting. Both men punching it out…but from memory my card wasn’t that close…Hagler seemed to have the best of a number of highly competitive rounds.

96-93 Hags for me. Mugabi won the first two and the ninth, and Hags lost a point in the seventh.

Ezzard wrote:All quality punchers.

Could Jackson and Mugabi have bounced Andries around like Hearns did? Not so sure.

About Hagler-Mugabi – very exciting. Both men punching it out…but from memory my card wasn’t that close…Hagler seemed to have the best of a number of highly competitive rounds.

I rewatched it last week after reading this thread. It never seemed like Hagler was in danger of losing, but boy did he get hit hard a lot.

SamWise72 wrote:

Ezzard wrote:All quality punchers.

Could Jackson and Mugabi have bounced Andries around like Hearns did? Not so sure.

About Hagler-Mugabi – very exciting. Both men punching it out…but from memory my card wasn’t that close…Hagler seemed to have the best of a number of highly competitive rounds.

I rewatched it last week after reading this thread. It never seemed like Hagler was in danger of losing, but boy did he get hit hard a lot.

That's how I remember it.

Rover wrote:

Ezzard wrote:All quality punchers.

Could Jackson and Mugabi have bounced Andries around like Hearns did? Not so sure.

About Hagler-Mugabi – very exciting. Both men punching it out…but from memory my card wasn’t that close…Hagler seemed to have the best of a number of highly competitive rounds.

96-93 Hags for me. Mugabi won the first two and the ninth, and Hags lost a point in the seventh.

So Mugabi won 3 rounds without the point deducation. That sounds about right.