dempseyfire wrote:Louis closed Ezzard's eye and had him hurt at one point during their rematch, in which Louis was soft and slow and coming off a very long layoff. Hard to see any rational argument for a peak Louis not knocking Charles out.
Think Ezzard's ability at HW is getting slightly over-rated here. He was a great HW but a real tour de force at 175. I see people saying he could beat Dempsey, and forgetting that the ordinary pressure puncher Pat Valentino landed some good shots on Charles and gave Ezzard a competitive fight until the KO, and that was during Ezzard's "heavyweight peak." Also was beaten by the hard-hitting pressure fighter Elmer Ray, who was not on Dempsey's level.
Ezzard was a tremendous talent but wouldn't have the physical strength to ward off a Dempsey or Foreman. Lone reason I give him a chance vs Lennox is that Lewis was much more safety-orientated and wouldn't be putting tons of pressure on Charles, allowing Ezzard to steal rounds with his greater sharp-shooting/counter-punching.
Charles wasn't in his prime then either.
I forgot to mention Dempsey. Jack punishes him all night long.
gilgamesh wrote:I think Ezzard Charles could outbox Dempsey, Dempsey would obviously be a lot to deal with early in the fight.
Charles damn near did beat Marciano, it's not hard to see him being slightly more fortunate and getting the Win.
I think the rest would get the better of him, but I could see him giving the boxer's Ali, Holmes and Frazier a hard time. He'd give Frazier a hard time early before Joe starting coming on strong late in the bout, probably stopping Charles around the 11th.
Which match? The first match wasn't even close, Marciano won that unaminously with room to spare. The rematch was the only time Marciano got in any trouble, and that was cus Charles' elbow busted his nose.
That's what I'm talking about, Marciano's nose was busted pretty severely to the point that they were supposedly going to stop the fight if he couldn't stop Charles. It's not unreasonable to think on his best night Charles could've done similar damage and survived Marciano's charge to get a cuts stoppage. I think Rocky would beat Charles more often than not mind you, I just think Ezzard Charles at his peak would be a handful for Marciano...more so than he was when they met.
Ha Ha. The doctor said after the fight he didn't plan to stop it. The blood was not affecting Marciano's vision or bleeding, according to doctor.
misterpunch wrote:charles beats none of the above. a very great fighter he was, arguably "greater" than some of these guys and certainly a better tech fighter than a few. but top technical fighters often get busted up by hard hitters or fierce pressure guys, especially in the heavier divisions. maybe he beats dempsey...maybe
there has recently been a little wave of over-rating charles on this site...tread carefully
Totally agree. Can't people just accept he was a great fighter, and leave it at that.
Some of these claims that he would beat behemoths like Foreman and Lewis in their primes, are frankly ridiculous.
Lewis no way at all. Jimmy Young beat Foreman, why couldn't Ezzard?
foxy01 - you cant moan about people discussing ezz versus whoever - thats the name of the thread! i said in my post that EC was a very great fighter, but also the elevation of him as just about the greatest fighter ever which has recently happened on BOXREC must be looked at with a sharper eye and put in its proper place.
great use of the word BEHEMOTH though, that word is always welcome
dempseyfire wrote:Louis closed Ezzard's eye and had him hurt at one point during their rematch, in which Louis was soft and slow and coming off a very long layoff. Hard to see any rational argument for a peak Louis not knocking Charles out.
Think Ezzard's ability at HW is getting slightly over-rated here. He was a great HW but a real tour de force at 175. I see people saying he could beat Dempsey, and forgetting that the ordinary pressure puncher Pat Valentino landed some good shots on Charles and gave Ezzard a competitive fight until the KO, and that was during Ezzard's "heavyweight peak." Also was beaten by the hard-hitting pressure fighter Elmer Ray, who was not on Dempsey's level.
Ezzard was a tremendous talent but wouldn't have the physical strength to ward off a Dempsey or Foreman. Lone reason I give him a chance vs Lennox is that Lewis was much more safety-orientated and wouldn't be putting tons of pressure on Charles, allowing Ezzard to steal rounds with his greater sharp-shooting/counter-punching.
Charles wasn't in his prime then either.
I forgot to mention Dempsey. Jack punishes him all night long.
That was certainly as good as Ezzard ever was as a heavyweight . . if you are going to say his prime was earlier at 175 that is precisely my point; he was one of the best to ever fight at 175, but a top 15 all-time heavyweight, which is still great but we're putting him in with other big great heavyweights here.
