BoxRec

keithmoonhangover wrote:I was having a look at Steve Little's record and it struck me that he didn't have many easy fights.

http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=543&cat=boxer

Any other good examples?

Care to provide any examples besides Steve Little? That might give us a better gauge of what you're looking for. And you said Little didn't have "many" easy fights, so I gathered some were acceptable.

Dereck Chisora's been matched tough so far: signed to fight Wlad twice, fought Helenius in Finland, fought Vitali, fought Haye, hell even fighting Tyson Fury is more than what most guys have done. Only had 19 fights so far.

RadioElRadar wrote:Dereck Chisora's been matched tough so far: signed to fight Wlad twice, fought Helenius in Finland, fought Vitali, fought Haye, hell even fighting Tyson Fury is more than what most guys have done. Only had 19 fights so far.

That's three top 10 heavies plus Helenius who's probably top 20. Very respectable, though he lost all of them.

Tszyu.
Fought Bramble, Laporte and Lopez before winning a title; all done in his first 11 fights (those three opponents).

Toney
DLH
Hopkins
Hagler

i vote Troy Dorsey. he was one tough dude.

Wow, Oscar was carefully managed throughout his career and the con worked. Being groomed for stardom, picking up alphabet belts here and there and now fans look back at him as someone who was matched toughed his whole career.

He was very carefully managed for years and people were relived when he finally stepped up in 99 and fought Quartey and Tito.

Archie Moore, Harold Johnson, Ray Robinson, Henry Armstrong, Kid Gavilan, Fritzie Zivic, Joey Maxim... you may now commence spinning in your graves.

loaded_gloves wrote:Wow, Oscar was carefully managed throughout his career and the con worked. Being groomed for stardom, picking up alphabet belts here and there and now fans look back at him as someone who was matched toughed his whole career.

He was very carefully managed for years and people were relived when he finally stepped up in 99 and fought Quartey and Tito.

I disagree, every fighter he fought had a winning record, no 0-0 fighter or fighters on losing streaks. Fought decent guys like Dorsey and Mayweather early on and fought for a WBO title agains an undefeated fighter in his 12th fight.

Plenty of fighters in recent years fed a diet of no hopers, bums and guys with 0-20 records.

Controversial wrote:Without doubt De La Hoya

sven ottke

man wrote:

Controversial wrote:Without doubt De La Hoya

and i do not even like delahoya
but got to give credit when do

You say that about Oscar de la Hoya like 'undefeated records' actually mean something.

You're judging a fighter by numbers and stats whilst disregarding quality.

Just because a guy has been padded and built up a 16-0 record doesn't mean he can fight. Jimmi Bredhal stayed in Denmark fighting journeymen for a lightly regarded WBO belt and lost to the only live bodies he fought.

Are we supposed to believe then that Oscar fighting and beating him was some kind of risky fight and achievement?

I don't want to be rude to you at all mate, but it's obvious you weren't following the sport at the time.

loaded_gloves wrote:You say that about Oscar de la Hoya like 'undefeated records' actually mean something.

You're judging a fighter by numbers and stats whilst disregarding quality.

Just because a guy has been padded and built up a 16-0 record doesn't mean he can fight. Jimmi Bredhal stayed in Denmark fighting journeymen for a lightly regarded WBO belt and lost to the only live bodies he fought.

Are we supposed to believe then that Oscar fighting and beating him was some kind of risky fight and achievement?

I don't want to be rude to you at all mate, but it's obvious you weren't following the sport at the time.

In comparison to other modern day fighters his record is as good, if not better. Every fighters record can be dissected and discredited, the point is he was involved in some sort of title fight from 12 fights until he retired, its not like he took the easy route. I have been following boxing for many many years, not sure what your point is? What modern day fighter do you think is a better example then?

Oscar was criticised throughout the 90s for taking the easy route. It took him nearly a decade to enter a 50/50 fight with Tito. Quartey was seen as a massive step up for him.

Picking alphabet belts here and there against low risk opponents with padded records that will con a mainstream television audience doth not a 'matched tough career' make.

loaded_gloves wrote:Oscar was criticised throughout the 90s for taking the easy route. It took him nearly a decade to enter a 50/50 fight with Tito. Quartey was seen as a massive step up for him.

Picking alphabet belts here and there against low risk opponents with padded records that will con a mainstream television audience doth not a 'matched tough career' make.

We are all entitled to our opinions but most on here seem to think DLH was a good choice. So what modern day fighter has a better resume in your opinion?

Controversial wrote:

loaded_gloves wrote:Oscar was criticised throughout the 90s for taking the easy route. It took him nearly a decade to enter a 50/50 fight with Tito. Quartey was seen as a massive step up for him.

Picking alphabet belts here and there against low risk opponents with padded records that will con a mainstream television audience doth not a 'matched tough career' make.

We are all entitled to our opinions but most on here seem to think DLH was a good choice. So what modern day fighter has a better resume in your opinion?

Never liked Oscar, but he fought Ruelas, a top lightweight--perhaps the best in the world at the time. Chavez, while past it, still arguably was the best jr. welter. And he was fighting guys like Molina and Hernandez pretty early in his career (within 3 years of turning pro).

IKSRTFO wrote:Hopkins

Rover wrote:Fenech.

First name I came to since I've been watching the sport.

No way was Chavez the best jnr welter when Oscar beat him - Frankie Randall had bested him twice, to the point where DK had to make him go away by providing a different alphabet title and a low level series of undercard defences. Oscar while untested was widely expected to beat JCC.

I agree Ruelas and Hernandes were good opponents but it doesn't mean Oscar was being matched tough throughout his career. He wasn't.

If you want a 1990s fighter matched way tougher, take Evander Holyfield. Douglas, Foreman, Holmes, Bowe three times, Moorer twice, Mercer, Tyson twice, Lewis twice.

Christ, even the Smokin' Bert who showed up to play was waaay more dangerous than any of Oscar's 16-0 WBO television-friendly opponents. Cooper could crush a world class chin - the likes of Bredhal couldn't.

Holyfield is an example of a man matched tough, willingly so, continuously seeking out the best opponents and hindred only occasionally by mandatory machinations.

loaded_gloves wrote:No way was Chavez the best jnr welter when Oscar beat him - Frankie Randall had bested him twice, to the point where DK had to make him go away by providing a different alphabet title and a low level series of undercard defences. Oscar while untested was widely expected to beat JCC.

I agree Ruelas and Hernandes were good opponents but it doesn't mean Oscar was being matched tough throughout his career. He wasn't.

If you want a 1990s fighter matched way tougher, take Evander Holyfield. Douglas, Foreman, Holmes, Bowe three times, Moorer twice, Mercer, Tyson twice, Lewis twice.

Christ, even the Smokin' Bert who showed up to play was waaay more dangerous than any of Oscar's 16-0 WBO television-friendly opponents. Cooper could crush a world class chin - the likes of Bredhal couldn't.

Holyfield is an example of a man matched tough, willingly so, continuously seeking out the best opponents and hindred only occasionally by mandatory machinations.

Randall did not best Chavez twice. I had Chavez ahead 76-75 at the time of the stoppage in Fight 2. And Randall didn't even have a belt when Oscar fought Chavez. As for Holyfield, if you count Cooper as being matched tough, Chavez counts. Was Czyz a tough opponent? How about Vaughn Bean?
And yes, I agree Holyfield was matched tough, but every fighter has had easy fights.
Cooper was brought in on short notice (I even remember how HBO emphasized that) and wasn't expected to be much of a challenge.

BarryWashington wrote:Cooper with better management and training staff probably could have been a much more remembered fighter. For instance even if I had trained him I would have done a better job with managing his weight and progressing his cardio and foot work, dude was so dangerous early in fights, but, always had a poor gas tank.

Remind me, what was Cooper's best win?

Rover wrote:Randall did not best Chavez twice. I had Chavez ahead 76-75 at the time of the stoppage in Fight 2. And Randall didn't even have a belt when Oscar fought Chavez.

If you had Randall ahead you are in a tiny minority. Refer back to the media the time.
Randall didn't have a belt when Oscar fought chavez. Your point being? That doesn't make the worldwide media opinion that he bested Chavez twice redundant does it? So Chavez really cannot be considered the top dog when Oscar fought him.

Rover wrote:As for Holyfield, if you count Cooper as being matched tough, Chavez counts. Was Czyz a tough opponent? How about Vaughn Bean?

That's not the point. Cooper is just an example of how some of Holyfield's scant few lesser opponents being far more dangerous than many people's wins over 25-0 alpha titlists who couldn't fight. It was a throwaway point at the end.

Rover wrote:

BarryWashington wrote:Cooper with better management and training staff probably could have been a much more remembered fighter. For instance even if I had trained him I would have done a better job with managing his weight and progressing his cardio and foot work, dude was so dangerous early in fights, but, always had a poor gas tank.

Remind me, what was Cooper's best win?

He knocked out Orlin Norris who was the top 10 ranked NABF champ at the time, and very good. His best performance was probably his 12 rd punch out with an in-shape Ray Mercer. He came off the floor to bust Mercer's jaw in a world class war. He had Michael Moorer down thrice in a thriller. He had Holyfield in bigger trouble than Tyson or Lewis could ever get him in. He was dangerous on his night.

Of course, he wasn't 16-0 with a paper title he only defended in his hometown, so many of the Boxrec generation would automatically dismiss him as an easy opponent.

BarryWashington wrote:

Rover wrote:

BarryWashington wrote:Cooper with better management and training staff probably could have been a much more remembered fighter. For instance even if I had trained him I would have done a better job with managing his weight and progressing his cardio and foot work, dude was so dangerous early in fights, but, always had a poor gas tank.

Remind me, what was Cooper's best win?

Orlin Norris or Henry Tillman

Probably Norris. So a heavyweight Orlin Norris was his best win.

I'm starting to understand why so many posters make full length threads mocking this guy 'Rover'.

Wow, what a troll.