BoxRec

forcefraser wrote: 250,000 readers down to 10,000? You think this is due to drug usage? Come on fella, surely you have heard of t'internet? People don't do written word as much these days.

dalcumly wrote:If you read what I wrote - I said the dropped readership gives a GENERAL indication of a downward trend. Is anybody trying to suggest that boxing is either becoming more popular or holding its own.

Does the rubbish from the guy Datsue not sum up what I've been saying about why the normal punter is no longer interested in boxing ?

Datsue wrote:

dalcumly wrote:If you read what I wrote - I said the dropped readership gives a GENERAL indication of a downward trend. Is anybody trying to suggest that boxing is either becoming more popular or holding its own.

Nobody's trying to suggest that, mate.

I took issue with you that the boxing world of yesteryear was any better.

It was probably less daft & laugh-out-loud ridiculous but every bit as bent.

Does the rubbish from the guy Datsue not sum up what I've been saying about why the normal punter is no longer interested in boxing ?

& how exactly, does this correlate? My opinion that fixed fights, mob control etc were as bad or even slightly worse than the bunch of muppets running the show now = "why the normal punter is no longer interested in boxing"?

I'd like to ask you--dismissing for a second the possibility that it's actually my fault entirely that boxing isn't popular anymore, which might be what you mean--why then, if the normal punter is no longer interested in boxing, is the normal punter interested in the UFC?

The UFC having a massive fanbase is something to do with marketing, something to do with demographics, & something to do with brilliant matchmaking & PR.

They have achieved this because one guy is virtually running the show as a promoter/sanctioning body hybrid. Boxing's "STAR EVENT" carnival hucksterism no longer appeals; the UFC looks like a product, TV companies are happy, the punters go to watch fights & buy all the gear. Boxing--because of the age-old promoter/sanctioning body/manager structure, because of the way boxing is presented, because of the way fighters are "looked after"--cannot compete on a TV level, because there is no guarantee of quality of product, either to the TV viewer or the suits paying the money (the TV company).

UFC guarantees this; if one dude gets injured or caught for drugs (& that's another straw man knocked down out of your argument, because every fornicator in the UFC looks like an injection-moulded Arnold Schwarzenegger & people are happy as feck to pay to watch them) the UFC can shuffle its fighters around & keep the product high quality. The TV's happy, the punters are chuffed because they didn't waste their ticket or get sold a donkey for a pony.

So, again, think about the way boxing's run & put together. Think about that great Juan Manuel Lopez fight, the one with Yuri Gamboa. Or the Pacquiao-Mayweather trilogy. Price vs Fury?

We didn't get those fights, despite the hoopla, despite the promise of "next year, when it's a bigger fight", we got tune-ups & tune-ups & so the media & the public tires of the bullshit & most parties involved end up losing to someone they weren't supposed to.

I don't care for the UFC; I can watch a good kickboxing match but I can't follow shite when they go on the floor. But the management of that sport & its popularity are signs that the business of boxing--the paymaster-employee relationship & also what gets served to the punters--must finally change in the future or the sport will die out completely.

As to why people don't attend small-hall shows etc, ask yourself this: how many other things were there to do in a small Northern town on a rainy Friday night? Three mismatches in a village hall was probably the social highlight of the week, so people went. Society's changed. People have more leisure time & a million different ways of filling it. Boxing is promoted & run the same way it was back then.

Boxing has remained the same as it always has in my not-so considered opinion, & the rest of the world now just does its best to ignore it. The Way Things Should Be Done has ended up here, as a niche sport.

PS: It's useful to think about this the moment someone gets an exclusive TV deal. TV companies are obviously chuffed 'cos they think they're getting a UFC-style quality control, there's a massive defection from whichever promoter doesn't have the TV deal, & we end up with the same old shite.

I would contend it's because things don't go far enough, & no-one has the money or nuts to completely blitz the opposition & set boxing in the UK up as a single-managed entity like that.

I don't see it happening, either--the UFC only happened because it was a "franchise" of MMA fights that had gone bust & some dudes picked it up dirt cheap--because boxing's really got to fall in the hole completely for it to happen, & we look destined to stagger along, doing boxing things boxing's way, for at least another generation yet.


PS: What Dead Mouse said about boxing always being on the margins: yes, I'd agree.

People went to see fights 'cos there was jack-all else to do (comparatively). So you got enormous live gates & much press coverage. Speak to a cross-section of octogenarians: many used to go to fights, lots like to reminisce grandly about how things were better, but ask them about the game, see if they actually followed it. If you read boxing journalism from yesteryear, or rather the better class of literary boxing-related stuff, there's always an aside about the general ignorance of the fight-going public. Everyone from Hemingway to Liebling to Fleischer harped on this.

I think as DM said, it was more popular, but the hard-core have always been comparatively few.

Dead Mouse wrote:

Quixall wrote:LOLOLOLOLOL

No you aren't and your a little pissed that i made you look a fool. Anyone who self proclaims their intelligence is never as smart as they think lol. Anyone who even takes this board / forum seriously certainly isn't normal and Datsue just uses obsfication and dissemblement covered in fancy language to make simple points seem much more complex than they are.

Simples

Yes, the guy who writes LOLOLOLOL, in capitals for extra impact, has made us look sooooooo foolish. I'm not usually fussed by this type of thing, but you're saying on the one hand that you've made us look like fools, on the other hand you're so not, like, bothered about this whole forum thing, which one is it? I've posted here for over half a decade, the presence of insiders, boxers, lawyers and guys like Datsue is a good thing, poncey language and all. To each their own. The best bet is to ignore the guy, especially as he is better at putting his thoughts into words and will always trounce you. Pick your battles wisely, and all that jazz.

You can take the boy out of ESB etc. I remember you once saw your arse because I corrected one of your mistakes or something, get over yourself. But you're a cool guy bro', lol.

OP, sorry for going OT on your thread. Boxing's always been on the margins, it isn't just a recent thing.

rm1 wrote:Boxers are there to box and are appreciated as such. Boxing is not there to judge boxers as human beings. If they break the law or break boxing's rules they should be punished but otherwise what they do outside of boxing is relavant. The problem is the celebrity culture where if you are famous and have money you are looked up to regardlesss of your qualities as a human being. I like to watch mayweather and broner as boxers but at the same time have a low opinion of them as human beings and wouldn't dream of lauding them as human beings. The problem is a society where increasingly anything is excused of the rich. That is a big problem for society that crosses over into boxing but actually has nothing to do with two guys in a ring.

MachoMan09 wrote:

dalcumly wrote:I don't know if you can remember the 3 footballers from the early 60's ( they either played with Wolves or Sheff Wed)who were found to be cheats in terms of betting. They were certainly not 'lionised' in fact they were humiliated , they are so forgotten that I can't even remember their names. I know this is only one example and you could probably name others were did achieve some sort of fame, but you have to agree, that in general terms bad behaviour , in or out of the ring , was not accepted.
I'll say it again, the Boxing News had 250,000 readers in the 50's and now its 10,000. That's a general indication of the lack of interest in boxing, and I'm suggesting it's due to the proliferation of titles , the disrespect shown by boxers to their opponents, drug usage, the price of watching it either live or on TV ,poor quality matchmaking, and the in-fighting between greedy promoters.
Would football die as well if the FA split into 3 organisations each with their own leagues, drug abuse was regular, every big match was PPV and live prices doubled, every week Man Utd and Chelsea were matched with York City and Aldershot and Paul Scholes said he's going to kill Steven Gerrard the next time they met on the park? Think about it, because this is what boxing has done to itself.

The British colonised most of the world by the most oppressive means imaginable and then sung quaint little songs about it. Black-balling a couple of footie players for a sly bit of betting hardly cancels out wholesale genocide.

dalcumly wrote:Drug cheats, criminals, wife beaters and all sort of life's scum ( broner for example) are allowed to continue boxing and making thousands because WE, allow it . We read about them, we pay to watch them fight ( live or on pay TV) and that is how they continue to earn. If a promoter or TV channel thought that the public would boycott their ring appearances then they wouldn't promote them.
Sanctioning bodies , TV channel executives and most promoters will do ANYTHING if they think they'll earn money, they will simply not avoid making money purely on the grounds of doing what is morally right.
Unfortunately old farts like me who can remember the days when the lad round the corner was a good dedicated boxer with a 'day job', his manager cared about his welfare , promoters took great pride in entertaining the fans and society rejected cheats, liars and assorted wasters are outnumbered by hundreds of thousands who simply don't care anymore.
Our sport is dying because mainstream society knows it's morally bankrupt. We'll still have the occasional 'big event' , but how many people are turning up at the town halls now ?

Dead Mouse wrote:

Quixall wrote:Like i said, weirdo's, freaks, miss fits...............You fit the lot

Stick to posting smillies and ellipses, leave the boxing talk to the adults.

Quixall wrote:

Dead Mouse wrote:

Quixall wrote:Like i said, weirdo's, freaks, miss fits...............You fit the lot

Stick to posting smillies and ellipses, leave the boxing talk to the adults.

Still answering the posts

Like i say, Weirdo's, freaks and social miss fits lol

Dead Mouse wrote:We're too small for a town. We could be a village, and with Quixall here we've got our idiot already in place. He'd also make a good fist of town crier if we do get upgraded. Multi-twatting.