BoxRec

--- to hell with the rankings, Roy was my hero in the 90s...

Massive Bereavement wrote:

polecateddy wrote:Clearly people can't see the wood for the trees these days when it comes to Roy Jones. At his peak he was basically untouchable.

He didnt lose a FVCKING ROUND for 10 years.

(please take a moment to let that sink in)

I guess people just see him as he is now, getting knocked about by Calzaghe, Danny Green and big, bad cruisers. Just because he's looking a bit vulnerable and unimpressive in his 40's does not mean he would fall apart when he was at his peak. It's just ageing gentlemen!

Massive Bereavement wrote:

polecateddy wrote:Clearly people can't see the wood for the trees these days when it comes to Roy Jones. At his peak he was basically untouchable.

He didnt lose a FVCKING ROUND for 10 years.

(please take a moment to let that sink in)

oh please...RJJ was a drug cheat.

after the exposure of the balco scandal he was never the same again.

dekker1972 wrote:

Massive Bereavement wrote:

polecateddy wrote:Clearly people can't see the wood for the trees these days when it comes to Roy Jones. At his peak he was basically untouchable.

He didnt lose a FVCKING ROUND for 10 years.

(please take a moment to let that sink in)

oh please...RJJ was a drug cheat.

after the exposure of the balco scandal he was never the same again.

It's hardly a level playing field out there. What were the majority of his opposition on?

diddy wrote:

The Dark Destroyer wrote:

diddy wrote:People look for excuses to diminish Jones' greatness in the 90's. If it's not 1 thing it's another. But the fact is there wasnt one man on the planet at the time spanning 3 weight classes who had even half a prayer of beating him. The man didnt exist.

Fine, whatever you think, but you don't have to make things up. You know perfectly well Hopkins wasn't the fighter in 93 he was ten years later.

At least you're not the one spewing Rochiggiani BS. That dude couldnt even beat Henry Maske in the mid 90's yet Jones gets chided for "ducking him". Just silly. Jones would've killed that guy. Say what you want about Jones' 90's reign. Who the hell was he supposed to fight that he didnt? The names people throw out there are giggle worthy. Calzaghe had no interest in coming to the States.

and RJJ has no interest in coming to the UK.

It's hardly a level playing field out there. What were the majority of his opposition on?

valid point.

but the issue muddies the water to the extent that imo RJJ is barred from any all time lists.

i used to love roy.

<bursts into tears>

Never fought dangerous opposition in his prime. Fights tougher guys now than he did then. Did have a close fight: First Tarver bout. Also Eric Harding was reasonably competitive with him before his arm gave out. Best fighters of the period didn't want to come to US to face him, Roy hid behind "don't want to leave the states, SEOUL GUYS" when presented with challenges from European opposition. Interestingly, that refusal to fly to fight went away along with his talent. Funny, that.

Top 20 fighter? Nah. No way. Very impressive fighter with some decent wins, but probably not top 3 of his generation compared to Shane, Hopkins, De La Hoya, and Mayweather (if you count him).

zorndeslammes wrote:Never fought dangerous opposition in his prime. Fights tougher guys now than he did then. Did have a close fight: First Tarver bout. Also Eric Harding was reasonably competitive with him before his arm gave out. Best fighters of the period didn't want to come to US to face him, Roy hid behind "don't want to leave the states, SEOUL GUYS" when presented with challenges from European opposition. Interestingly, that refusal to fly to fight went away along with his talent. Funny, that.

Top 20 fighter? Nah. No way. Very impressive fighter with some decent wins, but probably not top 3 of his generation compared to Shane, Hopkins, De La Hoya, and Mayweather (if you count him).

Come on, Danny Green was no more than average in comparison to a lot of fighters wiped the floor with in his heyday.

polecateddy wrote: Come on, Danny Green was no more than average in comparison to a lot of fighters wiped the floor with in his heyday.

How many dangerous Russian cruiserweights with high KO ratios did Roy fight in his prime? I can name one that was attached to potential Roy fights forever when it mattered, but never got anywhere because he "wasn't a big enough name", "didn't have a big enough profile", etc etc etc.

The only halfway decent guy he halfway avoided during his prime was Dariusz Michalczewski, and that would have surely been a one-sided win if it had come off. That was the only guy! He bumped off Bernard Hopkins and James Toney without any trouble at all, and that's before he really got into his stride.

zorndeslammes wrote:

polecateddy wrote: Come on, Danny Green was no more than average in comparison to a lot of fighters wiped the floor with in his heyday.

How many dangerous Russian cruiserweights with high KO ratios did Roy fight in his prime? I can name one that was attached to potential Roy fights forever when it mattered, but never got anywhere because he "wasn't a big enough name", "didn't have a big enough profile", etc etc etc.

But he wasn't a cruiserweight. It's like saying why doesn't Floyd Mayweather fight Andre Ward!

polecateddy wrote: But he wasn't a cruiserweight. It's like saying why doesn't Floyd Mayweather fight Andre Ward!

Vassily Jirov wasn't a cruiserweight?

zorndeslammes wrote:

polecateddy wrote: But he wasn't a cruiserweight. It's like saying why doesn't Floyd Mayweather fight Andre Ward!

Vassily Jirov wasn't a cruiserweight?

No Roy Jones at his peak wasn't. In fact the general school of thought was he wasn't a light-heavyweight, but choose to campaign at that weight during his peak years.

polecateddy wrote:

zorndeslammes wrote:

polecateddy wrote: But he wasn't a cruiserweight. It's like saying why doesn't Floyd Mayweather fight Andre Ward!

Vassily Jirov wasn't a cruiserweight?

No Roy Jones at his peak wasn't. In fact the general school of thought was he wasn't a light-heavyweight, but choose to campaign at that weight during his peak years.

And Shane Mosley wasn't a light middleweight. Sugar Ray Robinson wasn't a light heavyweight. So what? Great fighters take on big challenges. You can't say "Roy didn't need to fight Jirov for historical standing because he was a light heavyweight" when at the same time the fight with John Ruiz stands as one of his historic "achievements". He only took on such a fight when he found a guy willing to be paid nothing in guaranteed money. What a hero, that Roy Jones.

No Roy Jones at his peak wasn't. In fact the general school of thought was he wasn't a light-heavyweight, but choose to campaign at that weight during his peak years.[/quote]

And Shane Mosley wasn't a light middleweight. Sugar Ray Robinson wasn't a light heavyweight. So what? Great fighters take on big challenges. You can't say "Roy didn't need to fight Jirov for historical standing because he was a light heavyweight" when at the same time the fight with John Ruiz stands as one of his historic "achievements". He only took on such a fight when he found a guy willing to be paid nothing in guaranteed money. What a hero, that Roy Jones.[/quote]

Jones dominated from middle to light heavy. I don't think beating Jirov means a heck of a lot in the scheme of things. I enjoyed the Toney fight, but he was subsequently found to be a bit average and fragile.

...smoke...mirrors...juice...glass...chin...aviophobia...

Ezzard wrote:...smoke...mirrors...juice...glass...chin...aviophobia...

Now I would agree there may be an element of the above when it comes to say Amir Khan. But as somebody said earlier in this thread, Roy Jones basically did not lose a round for ten years. There were plenty of good fighters made to look second class in that time. I don't know about you, but being the best in the sport for such an extended period of time deserves a bit more consideration and respect.

And if Amir Khan spent a decade fighting nothing but Carlos Molina and Julio Diaz types and avoiding names like Peterson, Maidana, and Kotelnik because "they didn't bring enough money" or "they don't want to fight in my hometown," maybe he would be able to have an incredible record himself. Worked for Joe Calzaghe to the point where people think he was actually great.

Yeah but who did he avoid in his weight division other than Dariusz? Cruiserweight is a big leap. I remember interviewing Clinton Woods once, and he said he'd never go there because they're too strong.

...and Joe Calzaghe is great you silly troll!

If you want to respect fighters we’re on the same side. And, if so, you’re right to tick me off…but only after you took the gentleman to task who claimed Roy would beat Ray Robinson…one of the greatest boxers and hardest punchers in boxing history…he deserves a lot more respect than that. And then then many true greats who are being disrespected by people claiming Roy was a top 10 or top 50 fighter.

Roy’s legacy is “Roycott”. That’s how much he brought to the sport.

polecateddy wrote:Yeah but who did he avoid in his weight division other than Dariusz?

Which weight class? Didn't you just say he wasn't really a light heavyweight?

...and Joe Calzaghe is great you silly troll!

Joe Calzaghe is roughly equivalent to the like of a Khasoai Galaxy. Which isn't terrible, but he's no all-time great worthy of discussion in the top 20-30-50. Maybe the very low end of the top 100? Maybe?

Yes Roy was a super middle who choose to do light heavy.

Then if he's a "super middle" the obvious reality is that he didn't fight Joe Calzaghe until after Roy had become finished and was basically looking to do nothing more in big fights other than survive...if you're trying to protect Roy's legacy. Or you could say that Roy might have always gotten outworked by Calzaghe and Joe's fast hands, and Roy was merely an inferior fighter then as he always was. That latter statement would be trolling but it isn't a totally illegitimate statement without any potential factual basis.

zorndeslammes wrote:Then if he's a "super middle" the obvious reality is that he didn't fight Joe Calzaghe until after Roy had become finished and was basically looking to do nothing more in big fights other than survive...if you're trying to protect Roy's legacy. Or you could say that Roy might have always gotten outworked by Calzaghe and Joe's fast hands, and Roy was merely an inferior fighter then as he always was. That latter statement would be trolling but it isn't a totally illegitimate statement without any potential factual basis.

I'm sorry but Joe Calzaghe was not established enough when Roy Jones was at his peak. I'm not even that much of a Roy Jones fan, but I think at his best he would have decisioned any version of Joe Calzaghe.

polecateddy wrote: I'm sorry but Joe Calzaghe was not established enough when Roy Jones was at his peak. I'm not even that much of a Roy Jones fan, but I think at his best he would have decisioned any version of Joe Calzaghe.

Joe was regularly brought up as a potential Roy Jones opponent circa 2000/2001. So were a lot of guys, actually, that Roy didn't fight. Roy did fight Derrick Harmon. And that's why people feel the way they do about Roy Jones Jr.