BoxRec

damianhucker1 wrote:

columbo wrote:

damianhucker1 wrote:White collar, unlicensed and Semi Pro are the exact same thing , just that different organisations choose to use different variations of the name , theres no different rules for each , each individually promoter chooses what theyre calling it and what theyre rules are .

As the other poster said though mate, isnt that barbaric? Having danny williams or someone who's been a pretty decent fighter vs some guy that has been boxing for 6 months or some poo!

It wouldnt happen , No one is that stupid , if they did then they have no place in any sport .

People like Williams would only fight the best lads on the circuit who sell shed loads of tickets , Wouldnt make sense otherwise .

Why would anyone fork out bigger money to bring Williams in to fight a no hoper it wouldnt make sense and would lose money .

damianhucker1 wrote:

danconnollyeire wrote:None. White collar is for middle class workers, bankers etc. you probably mean unlicensed

No mate , your incorrect , theres no difference between White Collar and unlicensed .

danconnollyeire wrote:

damianhucker1 wrote:

danconnollyeire wrote:None. White collar is for middle class workers, bankers etc. you probably mean unlicensed

No mate , your incorrect , theres no difference between White Collar and unlicensed .

I've trained both. White collar mirrors amatuer. Head guards and stopped whenever a fighter is remotely hurt and they're respectable, usually businessmen, with little/no experience.

Unlicensed tends to be ex-pros/experienced fighters/amateurs that got too old/ people who don't fancy turning pro/ bare knuckle fighters etc etc

You won't see Dominic negus on a white collar fighter, ever. I'm not wrong I've been around it for tw last five years and gone to dozens of shows

warriorbox wrote:I've really turned against white collar boxing over the last 12 months. I think in the beginning white collar boxing was clearly defined by having 2 professional white collar workers train for 8 weeks or so then with 16 or 18oz gloves and headguards they would fight.
A natural progression is obviously a move into blue collar workers but still with the heavy gloves and headguards.

Now we have white collar defined as an alternate route for a boxer to move into the pros, the headguards are gone, the gloves are lighter, and as a whole it is much more dangerous.

We all know the dangers of the sport, major accidents can and do happen, and now with ex-pros and experienced amateurs going into 'white collar' 'semi pro' or whatever you want to call it, the risk of major injuries is massive and I would suspect only a matter of time before something serious does happen.

I'm aware these shows have ambulances, doctors, and other safety measures in place - but what they don't have unless I am mistaken is any type of insurance for the boxers.

I've seen the waivers used for these events and anyone with half a brain would know these waivers wouldn't last 5 mins in a court should something serious happen. There are too many factors involved in each event for a waiver to have any true value.

I would imagine the promoter of the event where a major injury occurred would face some pretty serious criminal charges and possibly even prison.

I guess my questions to the white collar promoters on here would be, have you ever considered what your position would be should a boxer get seriously injured on a show? If I'm wrong about the insurance then what insurance is in place (outside of public liability which wouldn't cover this)? If there is no actual boxers insurance in place do you make it clear to the venue the risk attached to that for them?

damianhucker1 wrote:
No mate , your incorrect , theres no difference between White Collar and unlicensed .

danconnollyeire wrote:

damianhucker1 wrote:
No mate , your incorrect , theres no difference between White Collar and unlicensed .

I've trained both. White collar mirrors amatuer. Head guards and stopped whenever a fighter is remotely hurt and they're respectable, usually businessmen, with little/no experience.

Unlicensed tends to be ex-pros/experienced fighters/amateurs that got too old/ people who don't fancy turning pro/ bare knuckle fighters etc etc

You won't see Dominic negus on a white collar fighter, ever. I'm not wrong I've been around it for tw last five years and gone to dozens of shows

damianhucker1 wrote:


White collar boxing poster , with an ex pro named on the poster .
along with Tim Witherspoon


And another below , again a pro is named on there

damianhucker1 wrote:


White collar boxing poster , with an ex pro named on the poster .
along with Tim Witherspoon


And another below , again a pro is named on there

sweetscience wrote:Paul Kenyon

sweetscience wrote:Paul Kenyon

damianhucker1 wrote:

danconnollyeire wrote:

damianhucker1 wrote:
No mate , your incorrect , theres no difference between White Collar and unlicensed .

I've trained both. White collar mirrors amatuer. Head guards and stopped whenever a fighter is remotely hurt and they're respectable, usually businessmen, with little/no experience.

Unlicensed tends to be ex-pros/experienced fighters/amateurs that got too old/ people who don't fancy turning pro/ bare knuckle fighters etc etc

You won't see Dominic negus on a white collar fighter, ever. I'm not wrong I've been around it for tw last five years and gone to dozens of shows

I promote the bloody things , you are wrong , i assure you .

Promoters call them whatever they want .

The EBF is white collar , and they are the biggest unlicensed organisation in the country .

You obviously was involved in something that called itself white collar and thats your experience , but i promise you there is no difference between the two .

damianhucker1 wrote:

warriorbox wrote:I've really turned against white collar boxing over the last 12 months. I think in the beginning white collar boxing was clearly defined by having 2 professional white collar workers train for 8 weeks or so then with 16 or 18oz gloves and headguards they would fight.
A natural progression is obviously a move into blue collar workers but still with the heavy gloves and headguards.

Now we have white collar defined as an alternate route for a boxer to move into the pros, the headguards are gone, the gloves are lighter, and as a whole it is much more dangerous.

We all know the dangers of the sport, major accidents can and do happen, and now with ex-pros and experienced amateurs going into 'white collar' 'semi pro' or whatever you want to call it, the risk of major injuries is massive and I would suspect only a matter of time before something serious does happen.

I'm aware these shows have ambulances, doctors, and other safety measures in place - but what they don't have unless I am mistaken is any type of insurance for the boxers.

I've seen the waivers used for these events and anyone with half a brain would know these waivers wouldn't last 5 mins in a court should something serious happen. There are too many factors involved in each event for a waiver to have any true value.

I would imagine the promoter of the event where a major injury occurred would face some pretty serious criminal charges and possibly even prison.

I guess my questions to the white collar promoters on here would be, have you ever considered what your position would be should a boxer get seriously injured on a show? If I'm wrong about the insurance then what insurance is in place (outside of public liability which wouldn't cover this)? If there is no actual boxers insurance in place do you make it clear to the venue the risk attached to that for them?

Ill not go long winded on this as it can be easy to get drawn into a long debate , Personal insurance is all thats on offer for a boxer doing white collar shows , insurers will not touch an entire promotion as there is too many dodgy people about , giving others a bad name , i encourage my lads to take personal insurance , the policies cover them for upto 4 days , but they dont all take it up , our waivers indicate they have been offered the insurance cover and to sign that they chose not to take it if that is the case .


What would the prison charge be then ? what could a promoter be charged with ? if they were considered negligent they could be sued but if all the safety requirements are in place that are enough for the insuarance to cover it , there would be no negligence , not all shows do any insurance though but i still dont believe they would be negligent .

The venue wouldnt be sued for anything happening , its a private function effectively , as long as they are licensed to host boxing and have the correct public liability cover , as should the promoter too , then they are covered , they of course need to have certain numbers on security and rules on searching people and fire escapes etc too but thats a different subject

dookus wrote:Waivers against liability for negligence resulting in injury or death are ineffective in law - section 2(1) Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977

warriorbox wrote:

dookus wrote:Waivers against liability for negligence resulting in injury or death are ineffective in law - section 2(1) Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977

My opinion on these events now (as levels have become much higher) is that the local authorities need to take a more active role in which events they allow, i.e. only allow events that carry full insurance policies that cover the boxers. I think that will happen, or the local authorities will simply ban any boxing not licensed by the board or the ABA.

warriorbox wrote:

damianhucker1 wrote:

warriorbox wrote:I've really turned against white collar boxing over the last 12 months. I think in the beginning white collar boxing was clearly defined by having 2 professional white collar workers train for 8 weeks or so then with 16 or 18oz gloves and headguards they would fight.
A natural progression is obviously a move into blue collar workers but still with the heavy gloves and headguards.

Now we have white collar defined as an alternate route for a boxer to move into the pros, the headguards are gone, the gloves are lighter, and as a whole it is much more dangerous.

We all know the dangers of the sport, major accidents can and do happen, and now with ex-pros and experienced amateurs going into 'white collar' 'semi pro' or whatever you want to call it, the risk of major injuries is massive and I would suspect only a matter of time before something serious does happen.

I'm aware these shows have ambulances, doctors, and other safety measures in place - but what they don't have unless I am mistaken is any type of insurance for the boxers.

I've seen the waivers used for these events and anyone with half a brain would know these waivers wouldn't last 5 mins in a court should something serious happen. There are too many factors involved in each event for a waiver to have any true value.

I would imagine the promoter of the event where a major injury occurred would face some pretty serious criminal charges and possibly even prison.

I guess my questions to the white collar promoters on here would be, have you ever considered what your position would be should a boxer get seriously injured on a show? If I'm wrong about the insurance then what insurance is in place (outside of public liability which wouldn't cover this)? If there is no actual boxers insurance in place do you make it clear to the venue the risk attached to that for them?

Ill not go long winded on this as it can be easy to get drawn into a long debate , Personal insurance is all thats on offer for a boxer doing white collar shows , insurers will not touch an entire promotion as there is too many dodgy people about , giving others a bad name , i encourage my lads to take personal insurance , the policies cover them for upto 4 days , but they dont all take it up , our waivers indicate they have been offered the insurance cover and to sign that they chose not to take it if that is the case .


What would the prison charge be then ? what could a promoter be charged with ? if they were considered negligent they could be sued but if all the safety requirements are in place that are enough for the insuarance to cover it , there would be no negligence , not all shows do any insurance though but i still dont believe they would be negligent .

The venue wouldnt be sued for anything happening , its a private function effectively , as long as they are licensed to host boxing and have the correct public liability cover , as should the promoter too , then they are covered , they of course need to have certain numbers on security and rules on searching people and fire escapes etc too but thats a different subject

Thanks for the reply Damian.

Having worked in insurance investigating for a bit I would say that advising boxers to get sports insurance for boxers wouldn't work at all. If there was a serious incident where the claim would be huge the first thing that insurance company would do is run an investigation on the whole show. The medics, background of all the officials, experience and qualifications of the referee, judges etc., etc. They would then be contact with the promoters insurance company which if it's 'public liability only' would have no value what-so-ever, so they would come after you as the organiser and yes the venue as well who are responsible for hosting the event and should be aware of all insurance and safety issues.

If you were found to be negligent in anyway they could inform local police which could lead to a criminal investigation.

If it was as simple as just getting personal sports insurance, get the boxers to sign a waiver, then get public liability, the BBBofC would of gone this route. As it is, there is no responsible and safe way to run an event without getting the proper insurance policy especially now the levels of boxing are higher.