BoxRec

rover----these fights were after aaron moved into contention....the discussion here was about his early fights...and i stand by my statements.

Jaclem wrote:rover----these fights were after aaron moved into contention....the discussion here was about his early fights...and i stand by my statements.

Actually, the discussion here also involves when he moved into contention. There was no desire for a Pryor/Duran fight in 77 or 78 when Duran was LW champ; the "Duran ducked Pryor" line is based on when Pryor had made a name for himself. Same with Leonard.

okay.....but...neither leonard or duran ducked pryor. period. these were ridiculous statements put out when the matches were not feasible. compare the time lines.

Jaclem wrote:okay.....but...neither leonard or duran ducked pryor. period. these were ridiculous statements put out when the matches were not feasible. compare the time lines.

I wholeheartedly agree.

Here's the timeline for Pryor and SRL just to make the point:
Aug 1980: Pryor beats Cervantes
November 1980: Leonard regains title from Duran; Pryor beats Hart
Pryor gets shot in the forearm and is off until June 81 v. Blackmore.
September 81: Leonard/Hearns I
Leonard has one more fight (Finch) and then retires until 1984 when Pryor's already on the decline.

BarryWashington wrote:

Jaclem wrote:
aaron would not fight anyone taller than he was..

he did not like to fight anyone who had not lost his last fight before aaron would fight him.

dujuan johnson

He apparently was talking about when Pryor was coming up; I already pointed out Arguello and Cervantes.

Wasn't Kameda very tall as well?

Leonard would have taken over a fight with Pryor early on and his fats punching would have seen many a flash knockdown that Pryor was so susceptible to.

Duran would have also had a great's night work. Pryor was made to make him look good.

loaded_gloves wrote:

Ezzard wrote: He'd be a great addition to the scene today but I would not bet on him coming out on top once the dust has settled.

What, in the light-welters?

Who would beat him?

Bradley, Marquez, Pac...

I'd back Matthysse and Alexander but not confidently.

I'd see Hatton as 50-50

I'd back Pryor against the likes of Khan, Ortiz, Maidana and Guerrero...Maidana having the best chance.

Ezzard wrote:

loaded_gloves wrote:

Ezzard wrote: He'd be a great addition to the scene today but I would not bet on him coming out on top once the dust has settled.

What, in the light-welters?

Who would beat him?

Bradley, Marquez, Pac...

I'd back Matthysse and Alexander but not confidently.

I'd see Hatton as 50-50

I'd back Pryor against the likes of Khan, Ortiz, Maidana and Guerrero...Maidana having the best chance.

Could you change your name from Ezzard? It's an offensive handle for someone who so grossly underrates great old school fighters and eats up whatever HBO feeds him on modern 'greats'.

Ricky Hatton and Devon Alexander over Aaron Pryor, are you insane? Matthysee? No one really even knows what Matthyse is yet! Bradley fought a swarming guy last time out and nearly died. And Marquez? How many physically bigger, top level men has he beaten? Zero?

I don't grossly underestimate great old school fighters. I just don't think Pryor was one of them.

He was exciting to watch. And he was very good. But that's not the same thing.

Could you change your...

...tactics about referring to people's names? Your brilliant Goebbels...

Kaiser Wilhelm was my favourite because you were the one bleating on about race and then tried to take the high ground. Brilliant cringe comedy though, top marks.

Or don't change tactics. Seems like you'd be out of material.

Now you're trying to put Aaron Pryor in with Ezzard Charles. Good luck with that one. Personally, I don't think you should so grossly underrate such a great as the Cincinnati Cobra.

But feel free to keep your name as it is...

I'd really rather not get into this sort of exchange. It's not in my nature. Probably just been on here too long...

I knew we would draw Jaclem out of retirement on this subject...lol well if he says Aaron was driving the bus then that settles it in my opinion. He was very close to the scene at the time, and what he says was also the general impression I had. This was apparently clear and crystal to Jaclem. We have discussed this over the years and I've had many of my assumptions confirmed by him...he had attended nearly all of his early fights....I attended about 40% probably....I was in attendance with the 41 other people in Covington KY (lol) the first time I saw him. I think he beat Jake the guy who works weekends at Ace hardware that night.

Jaclem did you make that trip? Were you the bald guy? lol I had hair then and my first wife was sort of an attention getter.. she was getting more attention than the fighters.

When I think about this....I do feel a bit old. But lucky for me Jaclems older.

By the way Jac....weren't their two fights (or more) that night? History seems to record only one.....I don't think ive ever been to a single fight event. But it's all a fog.....due to the ravenous affect the 60's had on me.

Ezzard wrote:Leonard would have taken over a fight with Pryor early on and his fats punching would have seen many a flash knockdown that Pryor was so susceptible to.

Duran would have also had a great's night work. Pryor was made to make him look good.

x2

Il Duce wrote:

Rover wrote:

Il Duce wrote:It was very difficult to get World-ranked opponents to come into Cincinnati to face Aaron Pryor in 1979.

Aaron was supposed to have a Television Bout on Saturday - June 23, 1979 against a World-ranked
Lightweight who pulled out.

They had to fill-in with shopworn New York Lightweight 31 year-old Jose Fernandez, who had lost
5-Straight.

Jose lasted about 1-Minute.......

Who was the lightweight?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A Mexican-based, Panamanian Lightweight - named Ernesto Davis was supposed to face Aaron Pryor in a
CBS-TV Bout, scheduled for June 23, 1979.

Ernesto Davis 31-7-3 {14 KO's} was ranked, I think at #8 by the WBA at the time, and was
unbeaten in his prior '16-Bouts' dating back to March 1977.

Ernesto was a good fighter at the time, and would have been Aaron's toughest opponent up to that point.

Ah, thanks.

Il Duce wrote:Mr. Rover...........

According to the CBS- TV Promo, with Mort Sharnik as the Boxing Consultant

June 29, 1979 (Open Date)

Aaron Pryor was offered bouts with,
* Edwin Viruet {inactive since; October 27, 1978}
* Vilomar Fernandez {inactive since; July 26, 1978}

Both opponents were either turned down by the Pryor Camp, and/or asked for a larger fight purse than
the $10,000 that was offered to them.

Ernesto Davis, a 24 year-old Panamanian who was based out of Mexico, was approved as a qualified opponent.
Ranked as the #8 WBA Lightweight - Ernesto was accepted by CBS-TV, as his record was 31-7-3 {14 KO's},
and he had been 'unbeaten' in his last '16-Bouts' by going 14-0-2 {7 KO's}.

But, Ernesto pulled out, and decided to stay and fight in Mexico instead.

Thanks Duce.

Il Duce wrote:Mr Rover,

You're Welcome Sir,

Now, for Saturday - October 20, 1979

Aaron Pryor vs. Alfonso 'Peppermint' Frazer, the former WBA Light Welterweight Champion.

I don't think that Alfonso Frazer was the 'first choice', but he did have a 'name' as a Former Champion, despite
being well past his peak.

And he got destroyed.

rover has set the timeline for us. the only objection i have to those who said leonard and duran ducked him was, as rover points out, the fights just weren't at a time when they wouldn't be made. the stories about these guys ducking pryor came out after pryor retired and they mostly came from his management or those close to him. i haven't read his biography in along time, but i don't think aaron made those claims himself. one fellow even said hearns ducked him! !!!

buzzy...yeah i saw that fight in covington, along with some others....i even did the publicity for a few of them.Richard Christmas was the matchmaker. now you've got me curious again and i have to check back and see what fights i saw. there was a middleweight, last name dale for whom i did some publicity....he fought on some cards that aaron was on. in fact dale was the main event and aaron on an undercard.

i have an interesting little anecdote about norman gaines..(stormin' norman) but i'll wait till later to tell it. this post is too long already.

(it might be ROY dale. ..save me some time and energy and check the name out on boxrec.)

Pryor's pre-title opponents don't read that soft. I used to see Marion "Tiger" Thomas spar almost daily for a couple years and he was a very crafty technico and Norman Goins was an absolute wrecking ball. Had a chance to spar with him here in Indy when I was 15 years old. Glad I didn't.

Another thing to consider about Aaron Pryor during the early part of his pro career is that there may have not been enough money available to make it worthwhile for a potential opponents. If Pryor got a deal from CBS like Howard Davis did, there would have been enough money. On the other hand, the managers of Davis got plenty of criticism for matching their fighters (which also included Gerry Cooney) against very soft opposition, which may have hampered their development. Flash Gordon, the publisher of a popular underground weekly publication, blasted Davis's management time and again, saying that "stiffs teach you nothing."

I remember when Flash did criticised a mismatch between Pryor and Danny Myers, saying that the person who was putting Myers in the ring with an "animal" like Pryor should be shot. But Flash criticised Davis's management far more than Pryor's for matching their fighters against "soft" opposition.

If I were a manager of a fighter who weighed 135 or 140 points during the late 1970s, I would have been trying to get a bout for him with Davis rather than with Pryor even if the size of the purse for a bout with either fighter was the same. With his tremendous aggressiveness, stamina and workrate, Pryor was a far more formidable fighter than Davis in the professional ranks.

- Chuck Johnston

Both Aaron Pryor and Howard Davis were top amateur fighters in the lightweight division at the same time, so I feel that it is perfectly natural to compare how they fared in the professional ranks. It may be that it may have been a blessing in disguise for Pryor not to get on to the U.S. Olympic team in 1976 or get a huge deal with CBS, but I still feel that Pryor would have fared far better in the professional ranks than Davis even if the latter came up the hard way and Pryor did not.

Notice that Pryor, Tommy Hearns and Larry Holmes had big setbacks in the amateur ranks, but went on to do far better as professional boxers than many of their amateur comtemporaries.

- Chuck Johnston

Il Duce wrote:Shouldn't really compare Aaron Pryor with Howard Davis Jr.

Completely different paths.

Aaron was destined to start from the bottom, and work his way up, which made him a
hungrier fighter (inner anger).

If he had gotten a deal like Howard Davis Jr. did, he would have burnt out quicker.

He burned out quick as it was.

Il Duce wrote:Crack is Whack.........

Boxing news

January 1980

CBS-TV trying to put together Cincinnati's Aaron Pryor vs. Zenon 'Arbalito' Silgado of Colombia.

Silgado, a 24 year-old World-ranked Light Welteweight, has posted a record of 23-3-2 {19 KO's},
and is considered one of the hardest punchers from that Region.

It has been reported that Zenon put WBA Champion Antonio Cervantes down several times recent
sparring sessions in Colombia.

Another Colombian wound up getting a national TV date v. Pryor. That was a good fight (Asprilla).

Il Duce wrote:That was a good fight,

But Zenon Silgado was better than Leonadas Asprilla.

He was a harder puncher with a better chin, and was a 'natural' Light Welterweight.

Aaron Pryor vs. Zenon Silgado would have been a 'knockdown affair'. Too bad it never happened.

What happened to Silgado?

Il Duce wrote:Zenon Silgado,

Got stuck in the Light Welterweight Ratings in 1979.

Being a Colombian and stable-mate of Antonio Cervantes, he was not going to get a chance
at the WBA Light Welterweight Champion in 1979.

The 'other' avenue - the WBC Light Welterweight Champion - Sang-Hyun Kim.

Zenon had defeated former WBA Light Welterweight Champion - Alfonso Frazer in February 1979
by a {KO 5}, and was in line for a mid-1979 bout with the 'new' WBC Champion - Sang-Hyun Kim, who opted to face
the 'well-connected' and much safer opponent Fitzroy Guiseppe on June 3, 1979 for his first 'Title Defense'.

Zenon was then supposed to get the next Championship bout in October 1979 - but again he was passed over
when a higher fight purse bid came in from Japan - for Challenger - Masahiro Yokai

Later, Zenon had agreed to face Aaron Pryor in December 1979/January 1980 - but somebody 'backed out',
which the CBS insders said it was the Aaron Pryor Camp, who after seeing a few tapes of The Colombian felt
that Zenon was too dangerous of a punching opponent.

Soon there-after, Zenon Silgado quit boxing in early-1980, after sitting around and waiting, as he was disgusted
with the 'political games'.

Glad B-Hop and JMM didn't do that. Guy quits because he waited a year?

Il Duce wrote:Smart move by Aaron Pryor's Camp to avoid Zenon Silgado...........

Sunday - February 24, 1980

Aaron gets to fight on the CBS-TV undercard bout of Roberto Duran vs. Wellington Wheatley
@ The Tropicana Hotel & Casino in Las Vegas.

Aaron is handed a 'gift-wrapped present' in Juan Garcia, and scores a {KO 1} improving to 21-0-0 {19 KO's}.

Juan Garcia, a 26 year-old Lightweight from Chile, was sold as having a record of 27-6-0 {7 KO's}, and was
a well-schooled ring technician with a 'solid' chin, and was coming off a 10-Round Decision win over
veteran James Martinez.

"KA-BOOM"

What was his real record?