BoxRec

Chavez

Fast guys troubled, but didn't always beat Chavez. Witness Randall, Whitaker, Taylor. Camacho was fast but no longer had the heart for a tough, grueling fight.
Benitez would have Chavez punching at shadows all night long, but with his lack of power, he would be unable to keep Julio out of his face the entire way.
Get the feeling that Benitez would deserve the decision, but the judges would instead reward the aggresiveness, intensity and not-stop punching of Chavez and hand the Mexican a close decision.

keithmoonhangover wrote:

Borinken25 wrote:

keithmoonhangover wrote:Chavez finds a way to win. In his prime, he was a monster - if you don't believe me, ask Edwin Rosario.

You compare apples and oranges. How is Rosario similar to Benitez? Benitez is leagues above Rosario.

I'm not comparing Rosario and Benitez.

Your statement is to ask Edwin Rosario. Why is Rosario statement so important to you? Or anybody for that matter. I don’t think that Chavez destroying Rosario could compare in any way to a fight between Chavez/Benitez.

Did you mean to imply that because he walked all over Rosario he would do the same to Benitez?
Rosario would say yes he was a beast. So what!! You could ask that question to anybody and they would say the same thing.

Why did you pick in particular Rosario? Why we don’t ask instead Juan Laporte? That fight could have gone either way and could still hear the boos in the background when they announce the decision.

What about asking Sweet Pea if Chavez was a beast in his prime. Sweet Pea school Chavez that night so bad it is not even funny. Benitez would have done the same. No questions or if or buts about it.

jj5000 wrote:When I think of the problems Benitez had with Curry and Weston I like Julio in this bout.However, on the other hand, those were non-title bouts and maybe Benitez wasn't "up" for them. I say a peak Benitez wins a fairly close decision.

As for Benitez-Duran being a gauge for Benitez-Chavez, I would argue that Chavez at 140 was a better fighter than the 154 pound Duran.Each at his best, I l say Duran was considerably better than Chavez and I would go with Duran over Benitez at 140 or 147.

If we are going bring problems how about the problems that Chavez had with Lodgidge and Laporte. And people tend to underrate Duran above 135. He beat Leonard, Palomino, and Cuevas. He fought a very close fight vs Hagler ,whom by the way makes #2 on my list of all-time greats at 160 (just behind Harry Greb). His only blemish would be against Hearns. He beat much larger than him Barkley and beat to a pulp Moore.

Duran was plenty motivated for the Benitez fight and he tried his best. He just could not adapt to Benitez style. He tried to pressure Benitez to no avail. I would still pick Benitez to beat Duran 140 or 147 due to his style. Benitez would never stand in front of Duran at any weight class like Leonard did. Leonard’s mistake in the first fight was to stand in front of Duran trying to beat him to the punch. When Leonard use his movement and skills he frustrated Duran. Benitez style was troublesome for people like Duran and Chavez that is a fact.

Both at their very best head to head Benitez should win the decision.

Borinken25 wrote:Why is Rosario statement so important to you?

It's not.

Borinken25 wrote:Did you mean to imply that because he walked all over Rosario he would do the same to Benitez?

No.

Borinken25 wrote:

jj5000 wrote:
If we are going bring problems how about the problems that Chavez had with Lodgidge and Laporte. And people tend to underrate Duran above 135. He beat Leonard, Palomino, and Cuevas. He fought a very close fight vs Hagler ,whom by the way makes #2 on my list of all-time greats at 160 (just behind Harry Greb). His only blemish would be against Hearns. He beat much larger than him Barkley and beat to a pulp Moore.

Duran was plenty motivated for the Benitez fight and he tried his best. He just could not adapt to Benitez style. He tried to pressure Benitez to no avail. I would still pick Benitez to beat Duran 140 or 147 due to his style. Benitez would never stand in front of Duran at any weight class like Leonard did. Leonard’s mistake in the first fight was to stand in front of Duran trying to beat him to the punch. When Leonard use his movement and skills he frustrated Duran. Benitez style was troublesome for people like Duran and Chavez that is a fact.

Both at their very best head to head Benitez should win the decision.

That is a bunch of crap and BALONEY. Put Duran and Benitez at the Montreal fight, and Benitez get stomped. Leonard ALWAYS FOUGHT that way, the problem he got beat by a better man in Montreal. Even if Leonard would have slug it out with Duran in fight #2, Leonard would have won that night in New Orleans because he caught Duran in an OFF NIGHT.
You are talking like if Duran was a BRUTE FIGHTER or something with no skills. Duran at his very best, was a complete fighter, especially at the range of 135 to 147 lbs. Duran above 147lbs WAS NEVER GOOD.

elmersalsa wrote:

Borinken25 wrote:

jj5000 wrote:
If we are going bring problems how about the problems that Chavez had with Lodgidge and Laporte. And people tend to underrate Duran above 135. He beat Leonard, Palomino, and Cuevas. He fought a very close fight vs Hagler ,whom by the way makes #2 on my list of all-time greats at 160 (just behind Harry Greb). His only blemish would be against Hearns. He beat much larger than him Barkley and beat to a pulp Moore.

Duran was plenty motivated for the Benitez fight and he tried his best. He just could not adapt to Benitez style. He tried to pressure Benitez to no avail. I would still pick Benitez to beat Duran 140 or 147 due to his style. Benitez would never stand in front of Duran at any weight class like Leonard did. Leonard’s mistake in the first fight was to stand in front of Duran trying to beat him to the punch. When Leonard use his movement and skills he frustrated Duran. Benitez style was troublesome for people like Duran and Chavez that is a fact.

Both at their very best head to head Benitez should win the decision.

That is a bunch of crap and BALONEY. Put Duran and Benitez at the Montreal fight, and Benitez get stomped. Leonard ALWAYS FOUGHT that way, the problem he got beat by a better man in Montreal. Even if Leonard would have slug it out with Duran in fight #2, Leonard would have won that night in New Orleans because he caught Duran in an OFF NIGHT.
You are talking like if Duran was a BRUTE FIGHTER or something with no skills. Duran at his very best, was a complete fighter, especially at the range of 135 to 147 lbs. Duran above 147lbs WAS NEVER GOOD.

Duran was "NEVER" good above 147 pounds?

Tell that to Moore and Barkley. Nonsensical statement.

Rover wrote:
Duran was "NEVER" good above 147 pounds?

Tell that to Moore and Barkley. Nonsensical statement.

I meant he was not as good like when he was at lightweight and welterweight. Most of Duran's losses were above 147lbs.

Factors?
Not in his prime
Fat and overweight for those weight classes above 147.
Slow on foot and hand speed
Over 30 years old fighting in weight classes that were not his.
Moore and Barkley were good fighters that were supposed to beat Duran. They were not exceptional. That is why Duran beat them.
He lost to an unknown Kirkland Laing? Nuff said.

Let Duran give Barkley a rematch and Barkley blows him out every time after that.

Chavez too small here. He was not that good at 140 or above. I mean good...but not great... He was wonderful at 135 but always seemed compromised north of that.

Ezzard wrote:Chavez too small here. He was not that good at 140 or above. I mean good...but not great... He was wonderful at 135 but always seemed compromised north of that.

You may be right, Ezzard. Probably 140lbs was Chavez last good/great stop. Let's not even mention welterweight, Chavez was not even an ounce of good.

elmersalsa wrote:

Rover wrote:
Duran was "NEVER" good above 147 pounds?

Tell that to Moore and Barkley. Nonsensical statement.

I meant he was not as good like when he was at lightweight and welterweight. Most of Duran's losses were above 147lbs.

Factors?
Not in his prime
Fat and overweight for those weight classes above 147.
Slow on foot and hand speed
Over 30 years old fighting in weight classes that were not his.
Moore and Barkley were good fighters that were supposed to beat Duran. They were not exceptional. That is why Duran beat them.
He lost to an unknown Kirkland Laing? Nuff said.

Let Duran give Barkley a rematch and Barkley blows him out every time after that.

You said Duran was never good above 147. He was. He wasn't as consistent, but he was good--even against Hagler.

elmersalsa wrote:

Ezzard wrote:Chavez too small here. He was not that good at 140 or above. I mean good...but not great... He was wonderful at 135 but always seemed compromised north of that.

You may be right, Ezzard. Probably 140lbs was Chavez last good/great stop. Let's not even mention welterweight, Chavez was not even an ounce of good.

140 was clearly JCC's last great weight. He'd have been a decent welter but wouldn't have beaten the champs there.

elmersalsa wrote:

Borinken25 wrote:

jj5000 wrote:
If we are going bring problems how about the problems that Chavez had with Lodgidge and Laporte. And people tend to underrate Duran above 135. He beat Leonard, Palomino, and Cuevas. He fought a very close fight vs Hagler ,whom by the way makes #2 on my list of all-time greats at 160 (just behind Harry Greb). His only blemish would be against Hearns. He beat much larger than him Barkley and beat to a pulp Moore.

Duran was plenty motivated for the Benitez fight and he tried his best. He just could not adapt to Benitez style. He tried to pressure Benitez to no avail. I would still pick Benitez to beat Duran 140 or 147 due to his style. Benitez would never stand in front of Duran at any weight class like Leonard did. Leonard’s mistake in the first fight was to stand in front of Duran trying to beat him to the punch. When Leonard use his movement and skills he frustrated Duran. Benitez style was troublesome for people like Duran and Chavez that is a fact.

Both at their very best head to head Benitez should win the decision.

That is a bunch of crap and BALONEY. Put Duran and Benitez at the Montreal fight, and Benitez get stomped. Leonard ALWAYS FOUGHT that way, the problem he got beat by a better man in Montreal. Even if Leonard would have slug it out with Duran in fight #2, Leonard would have won that night in New Orleans because he caught Duran in an OFF NIGHT.
You are talking like if Duran was a BRUTE FIGHTER or something with no skills. Duran at his very best, was a complete fighter, especially at the range of 135 to 147 lbs. Duran above 147lbs WAS NEVER GOOD.

Elmer and the million excuses for Duran. Leonard always fought that way? Not in his prime;
Fat and overweight for those weight classes above 147; Slow on foot and hand speed Over 30 years old fighting in weight classes that were not his; Moore and Barkley were good fighters that were supposed to beat Duran, they were not exceptional. That is why Duran beat them. Duran did not train; Duran had diarrhea; Duran had menstrual cramps on his stomach; Duran was not good above 135; Duran was not above 147; Duran was not good above 154; and blah; blah; blah; and a million other excuses. Face it Benitez would give problems to Duran at any weight class. Duran could not touch El Radar