BoxRec

desperados wrote:

zero wrote:

desperados wrote:moving up to fight Cleverly would be nice, i'll pick Nathan, Froch is way too slow.

I'd like to see Froch knock 7 bells out Groves & deGale in the same night he like promised, and he probably could.

He needs to stay away from Ward though, he'll make him look stupid, and make it look even easier than last time.

He does look slow although it hasn't hindered him. He's only been beat by Ward and Kessler not to shabby is it.

I get the opinion you don't really like Froch?

i'm undecided on him, on a personal level but i have no complaint about the action he brings and the excitement of his fights, i also think right now he probably has the best pfp chin the entire sport, it's something to behold.

His lack of speed he makes up for in other areas, mainly his sheer intensity and ability to throw hard shots in volume, which in itself is rather unique. Cleverly however also has a good chin from what we've seen, Bellew thumped him with his best shots and Cleverly was actually a like Froch-like himself in his reactions to big shots. But the difference in speed & Cleverly being the bigger man i think points to win for Nathan in not such a disimilar way to how Calzaghe would have beaten Froch imo.

Yeah, I wasn't to keen on him a while back his stalking of Calzaghie was something that annoyed me. What I like about Froch is he fights like life depends on it, a through back fighter who IMO could be fighting for a £5 or millions he still gives it all.

Ward is the only meaningful match and he's a bit too slick. Kessler 3 is pointless, ditto Bute, Hopkins, domestic fighters etc.

Does he need to keep on fighting ?

I know he's great to watch, I'm a very big fan but with money in the bank and family, why not retire ?

lillywhite14 wrote:
Groves would be an option for the Battle of Britain angle etc but I can't see it happening, I think it will end up similar to how Calzaghe-Froch played out.

exactly what i was thinking about the Groves fight i think their records were probably similar when froch called out JC.. its a bit of a carbon copy... cant see the fight happening.... and i dont think Froch will retire as world champion at some point hel have his day with ward and alas i cant see anything but a win for ward :( so in reality there wont be much to fight for ..just fighters at different ends of their careers really..

Options IMO:

Ward - probably the same result, although a possible homer decision with some luck; styles make fights and that won't sell anywhere other than here, so unless Ward is willing to fight either at the City Ground or O2, it's a no-no IMO.
Hopkins - Probably his biggest payday option; would be a good name on the resume, I'd back Froch but again what an uninspiring prospect of a fight.
Groves - not yet. I rate Groves VERY highly (I think in 2/3 years him & Callum Smith will be among the top 3 SMW's worldwide) but he hasn't really earned a shot at the big time just yet; I have a feeling he will get a shot at Stieglitz or the winner of Bika/Periban for a title. That said, I suspect Groves wouldn't be fazed by travelling to Nottingham and it would certainly generate massive money domestically, so it's not out of the question.
Cleverly - Froch would walk through him IMO. Even though he's been an, albeit flimsy, champion for a couple of years who had Cleverly fought who has actually shown he belongs at this level yet? Bellew? Regardless of his amateur rep as a KO artist he's never shown it in the pro's himself. Cleverly would get the shock of his life with Froch.
Stieglitz - Can't see it, wouldn't sell. Froch is now a household name in the UK and he needs to be fighting someone that non-boxing fans have heard of now (is what Eddie Hearn will be thinking)
Kessler - Easy sell, guaranteed good fight. Location only factor but Froch is big news in US now so I wouldn't rule out a Vegas fight.
Degale - no. Nothing more needs to be said.

I think a lot of it depends on what Froch wants out of the last few fights of his career. If he wants another big challenge then I think moving up to light heavy would be the obvious choice, but he's simply not big enough. He was 12st 2lb about a month out from Kessler so realistically the only way he gets in with a LH is a catch weight with either Hopkins or Cleverly. Hopkins would purely be for cash, and I'm not convinced Cleverly would be able to come down.

If I was a betting man I think I'd be sticking a few quid on Froch v Kessler 3 in October/November time, providing Kessler hasn't retired by then. It's the only one that makes sense really.

I do still have a sneaky feeling Ward might take the challenge of coming here though.

For me it has to be a ward rematch next, I would love it here but it's unlikely yet not impossible, I think ward would win again but it would be much closer !

Dirrell got robbed far worse than Froch did I'm Denmark. He should fight him in the states...

Dirrell is a slimeball I'd give him nothing.

As cosy as the thought is that Froch can fully tidy up his record with a revenge win over Ward, I think it's expecting far too much of him.

Stieglitz and Cleverly are the most interesting matches for me.

I'd like to see Froch vs Robert Stieglitz later in the year and then possibly Hopkins over in Las Vegas. Why Vegas? Well, Carl has always said that he wanted to fight and see his name in lights out on the strip before he retires.

JCC Jr is a possibility (as he moves up for the WBC strap that Ward has vacated) next year, but only over here. Froch has done his travelling now and is the champion, I wouldn't have him fighting out of the UK again except for the one fight in Las Vegas.

I'm not really bothered about Froch vs Kessler III. Froch vs Ward II would be a painful watch and a fight you could see Ward grappling his way to another decision.

The only battle of Britain that would be worthy of the title is - Froch vs Calzaghe, where Eddie would have to throw about £10 million at Joe, which is the dream fight but one we just won't ever see.

Hows about this.....

he beats Stieglitz to take his WBO title

completes the kessler trilogy with a victory on neutral soil

destroys bika for the WBC title and cleans up all the belts in the division

fights Ward in nottigham and we scare the bejesus out of him and froch squeaks a tight home decision to gain the ring belt and no1 status

he beheads degale for being an argogant welt

rematches ward and wins to cement his place in the HoF

vacates all belts and steps up to light heavy, travels to wales, beats calzaghe in a long awaited grudge match, just to prove the "legacy" argument on boxrec

then fights cleverly who will, by then, have cleaned up the light heavy wieght division by picking up vacated titles and still never having fought an actual world champion. froch will hit him so many times, cleverly wont even be able to create a mathematical formula to calculate the punishment he's taken

once he has established himself as the greatest supermiddlewieght/lightheavywieght of the modern age, been involved in countless fight of the years and is loved by all, the darling of Sky and renowned around the world, he announces his last ever fight

he fights groves and loses and gives us something to really blame george for!

davie wrote:Hows about this.....

he beats Stieglitz to take his WBO title

completes the kessler trilogy with a victory on neutral soil

destroys bika for the WBC title and cleans up all the belts in the division

fights Ward in nottigham and we scare the bejesus out of him and froch squeaks a tight home decision to gain the ring belt and no1 status

he beheads degale for being an argogant welt

rematches ward and wins to cement his place in the HoF

vacates all belts and steps up to light heavy, travels to wales, beats calzaghe in a long awaited grudge match, just to prove the "legacy" argument on boxrec

then fights cleverly who will, by then, have cleaned up the light heavy wieght division by picking up vacated titles and still never having fought an actual world champion. froch will hit him so many times, cleverly wont even be able to create a mathematical formula to calculate the punishment he's taken

once he has established himself as the greatest supermiddlewieght/lightheavywieght of the modern age, been involved in countless fight of the years and is loved by all, the darling of Sky and renowned around the world, he announces his last ever fight

he fights groves and loses and gives us something to really blame george for!

All sounds good but sounds like a plan to avoid fighting Frank Buglioni. Froch is a lily-livered ducker.

We should forget about Kessler.

The man has a life to live after boxing and another punishing fight will not help him at all, his bank balance, yes, but health wise? No.

Ward? = another loss. Hopkins? Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.
Steiltzig & winner of WBC fight - yes to both! Groves to finish!

MarkMcBurney wrote:Options IMO:

Ward - probably the same result, although a possible homer decision with some luck; styles make fights and that won't sell anywhere other than here, so unless Ward is willing to fight either at the City Ground or O2, it's a no-no IMO.
Hopkins - Probably his biggest payday option; would be a good name on the resume, I'd back Froch but again what an uninspiring prospect of a fight.
Groves - not yet. I rate Groves VERY highly (I think in 2/3 years him & Callum Smith will be among the top 3 SMW's worldwide) but he hasn't really earned a shot at the big time just yet; I have a feeling he will get a shot at Stieglitz or the winner of Bika/Periban for a title. That said, I suspect Groves wouldn't be fazed by travelling to Nottingham and it would certainly generate massive money domestically, so it's not out of the question.
Cleverly - Froch would walk through him IMO. Even though he's been an, albeit flimsy, champion for a couple of years who had Cleverly fought who has actually shown he belongs at this level yet? Bellew? Regardless of his amateur rep as a KO artist he's never shown it in the pro's himself. Cleverly would get the shock of his life with Froch.
Stieglitz - Can't see it, wouldn't sell. Froch is now a household name in the UK and he needs to be fighting someone that non-boxing fans have heard of now (is what Eddie Hearn will be thinking)
Kessler - Easy sell, guaranteed good fight. Location only factor but Froch is big news in US now so I wouldn't rule out a Vegas fight.
Degale - no. Nothing more needs to be said.

I think a lot of it depends on what Froch wants out of the last few fights of his career. If he wants another big challenge then I think moving up to light heavy would be the obvious choice, but he's simply not big enough. He was 12st 2lb about a month out from Kessler so realistically the only way he gets in with a LH is a catch weight with either Hopkins or Cleverly. Hopkins would purely be for cash, and I'm not convinced Cleverly would be able to come down.

If I was a betting man I think I'd be sticking a few quid on Froch v Kessler 3 in October/November time, providing Kessler hasn't retired by then. It's the only one that makes sense really.

I do still have a sneaky feeling Ward might take the challenge of coming here though.

Is there a reason you've left out Oosthuizen?

He's rated higher than all the Super Middleweights you've mentioned apart from Ward and Stieglitz.

His next fight WONT be ward .

Wards had an injury and isnt coming back until sept , maybe even oct .

I expect Froch to next fight in Nov/Dec , so Ward will not be ready .

Stieglitz will be difficult to tempt out Germany .

My view is the easiest to make are Groves , Bika or Oousthuizen , but i believe the latter is a big risk/ low reward type fight .

I therfor think theyll go for Bika (providing he beats Periban) and will have Groves as back up in case negotiations fail , If its Bika its Nottingham , if its Groves then its back in London again .

kaiserbill wrote:

MarkMcBurney wrote:Options IMO:

Ward - probably the same result, although a possible homer decision with some luck; styles make fights and that won't sell anywhere other than here, so unless Ward is willing to fight either at the City Ground or O2, it's a no-no IMO.
Hopkins - Probably his biggest payday option; would be a good name on the resume, I'd back Froch but again what an uninspiring prospect of a fight.
Groves - not yet. I rate Groves VERY highly (I think in 2/3 years him & Callum Smith will be among the top 3 SMW's worldwide) but he hasn't really earned a shot at the big time just yet; I have a feeling he will get a shot at Stieglitz or the winner of Bika/Periban for a title. That said, I suspect Groves wouldn't be fazed by travelling to Nottingham and it would certainly generate massive money domestically, so it's not out of the question.
Cleverly - Froch would walk through him IMO. Even though he's been an, albeit flimsy, champion for a couple of years who had Cleverly fought who has actually shown he belongs at this level yet? Bellew? Regardless of his amateur rep as a KO artist he's never shown it in the pro's himself. Cleverly would get the shock of his life with Froch.
Stieglitz - Can't see it, wouldn't sell. Froch is now a household name in the UK and he needs to be fighting someone that non-boxing fans have heard of now (is what Eddie Hearn will be thinking)
Kessler - Easy sell, guaranteed good fight. Location only factor but Froch is big news in US now so I wouldn't rule out a Vegas fight.
Degale - no. Nothing more needs to be said.

I think a lot of it depends on what Froch wants out of the last few fights of his career. If he wants another big challenge then I think moving up to light heavy would be the obvious choice, but he's simply not big enough. He was 12st 2lb about a month out from Kessler so realistically the only way he gets in with a LH is a catch weight with either Hopkins or Cleverly. Hopkins would purely be for cash, and I'm not convinced Cleverly would be able to come down.

If I was a betting man I think I'd be sticking a few quid on Froch v Kessler 3 in October/November time, providing Kessler hasn't retired by then. It's the only one that makes sense really.

I do still have a sneaky feeling Ward might take the challenge of coming here though.

Is there a reason you've left out Oosthuizen?

He's rated higher than all the Super Middleweights you've mentioned apart from Ward and Stieglitz.

In the eyes of Froch & Hearn that's a high risk/no reward fight. Nobody outside of dedicated boxing fans know who he is so if wouldn't sell massively over here, and Carl gains nothing by beating him.

That, and I forgot.

MarkMcBurney wrote:

kaiserbill wrote:

MarkMcBurney wrote:Options IMO:

Ward - probably the same result, although a possible homer decision with some luck; styles make fights and that won't sell anywhere other than here, so unless Ward is willing to fight either at the City Ground or O2, it's a no-no IMO.
Hopkins - Probably his biggest payday option; would be a good name on the resume, I'd back Froch but again what an uninspiring prospect of a fight.
Groves - not yet. I rate Groves VERY highly (I think in 2/3 years him & Callum Smith will be among the top 3 SMW's worldwide) but he hasn't really earned a shot at the big time just yet; I have a feeling he will get a shot at Stieglitz or the winner of Bika/Periban for a title. That said, I suspect Groves wouldn't be fazed by travelling to Nottingham and it would certainly generate massive money domestically, so it's not out of the question.
Cleverly - Froch would walk through him IMO. Even though he's been an, albeit flimsy, champion for a couple of years who had Cleverly fought who has actually shown he belongs at this level yet? Bellew? Regardless of his amateur rep as a KO artist he's never shown it in the pro's himself. Cleverly would get the shock of his life with Froch.
Stieglitz - Can't see it, wouldn't sell. Froch is now a household name in the UK and he needs to be fighting someone that non-boxing fans have heard of now (is what Eddie Hearn will be thinking)
Kessler - Easy sell, guaranteed good fight. Location only factor but Froch is big news in US now so I wouldn't rule out a Vegas fight.
Degale - no. Nothing more needs to be said.

I think a lot of it depends on what Froch wants out of the last few fights of his career. If he wants another big challenge then I think moving up to light heavy would be the obvious choice, but he's simply not big enough. He was 12st 2lb about a month out from Kessler so realistically the only way he gets in with a LH is a catch weight with either Hopkins or Cleverly. Hopkins would purely be for cash, and I'm not convinced Cleverly would be able to come down.

If I was a betting man I think I'd be sticking a few quid on Froch v Kessler 3 in October/November time, providing Kessler hasn't retired by then. It's the only one that makes sense really.

I do still have a sneaky feeling Ward might take the challenge of coming here though.

Is there a reason you've left out Oosthuizen?

He's rated higher than all the Super Middleweights you've mentioned apart from Ward and Stieglitz.

In the eyes of Froch & Hearn that's a high risk/no reward fight. Nobody outside of dedicated boxing fans know who he is so if wouldn't sell massively over here, and Carl gains nothing by beating him.

That, and I forgot.

Ahh, ok.

He has an awkward style and relatively high workrate that also may not be suitable to Froch.

And his height, of course.

The more one looks at it, a fight with Stieglitz looks to be a natural, although either one of the local boys in Groves or DeGale might be the way to go, even though they're nowhere ready at this stage for Froch IMHO.

Double Post...

Dirrel might be a slime ball and a arsehole, but there is unfinished business there.

stujones wrote:Dirrel might be a slime ball and a arsehole, but there is unfinished business there.

There was unfinished business at the time of the first fight, but since that time Dirrell has done nothing to demonstrate that he has earned or deserves a fight with Froch. In the time that Froch has lost and won against Kessler, lost to Ward and beaten Abraham, Johnson, Bute and Mack, Dirrell has had a semi-farcical victory over Abraham and little regarded wins over Williamson and Gbenga. To suggest that Frochs resume will lack something without Dirrell 2 is to vastly overrate Dirrells career since 2009.

edwin rodriguez in ranked high in frochs wba and ibf. should he beat grachev will be an excellent stay busy fight.

Chavez jnr is the perfect fight for Froch next imo. Home or away.

Just my two pennies worth:

I love watching Carl Froch fight, always gutsy performances, and what a chin! Have followed him since the BBC days.

However, Froch isn't the Champion. He is a belt holder sure, but the Champion is Ward. The whole point of the Super Six was to determine that. Ward won it at a canter. Now the only doubt after the super six was Bute, then Froch smashes him. So for me the doubt is removed, Ward is the man.

Ward has probably taken the wrong path since the Super Six. They were not fussed on the Bute fight unless it was in California, Froch takes it instead. So Ward takes the Dawson challenge, I don't think anyone even Ward realised how easy that fight would be. In someways I think Ward wishes he took it at 175, as it stands now Ward has very few high profile fights at 168 and the main man at 175 he's already dominated. So where does he go? Well I think he needs the Froch fight, you could see he wants it, and I felt when Sky interviewed him on Saturday he looked annoyed that Hopkins had jumped in and said he'll fight in the UK. He knows Froch is the biggest fight out there.

Now the UK be great, but if not then have it in Vegas. Froch has to take this fight or he'll always be known as number two.

Personally I think Ward wins again, but so what? Froch has lost before and has always come back strong. He has a ton of options even if he loses. Groves will win a title soon imo, and as long as Froch doesn't get knocked out and embarressed that fight would still be a big fight even if Ward beats him again. Then you've got Light Heavy, Cleverly would be interesting, even Bellew perhaps. Not to mention the winner of Bute-Pascal.

Ward is the guy Froch has to beat to be great. If he loses, then he tried and he can still make a lot of money in big fights. Losing to the best never hurt Gatti's career.

ajwesty13 wrote:

lillywhite14 wrote:
Groves would be an option for the Battle of Britain angle etc but I can't see it happening, I think it will end up similar to how Calzaghe-Froch played out.

exactly what i was thinking about the Groves fight i think their records were probably similar when froch called out JC.. its a bit of a carbon copy... cant see the fight happening.... and i dont think Froch will retire as world champion at some point hel have his day with ward and alas i cant see anything but a win for ward :( so in reality there wont be much to fight for ..just fighters at different ends of their careers really..

What would disappoint me is if Froch didn't go for Groves, but then then fought an inferior boxer. If you look at the 168lbs division presently, what fights are bigger than Froch-Groves? Froch-Ward II, Froch-Kessler III and (perhaps) Froch-Stieglitz. He's not going to move to LHW (potential catchweight fight vs Hopkins excluded) and which names from 160 are realistic? Chavez Jr is the only major name likely to move up and NO WAY will he ever fight outside US/Mexico.

In my opinion, Carl vs George is a very viable fight. Surely people would rather see that than Froch-Oozthuizen, or Froch-Rodriguez, for example? It's certainly an easier sell if nothing else.

Look back at Calzaghe and Froch's records in 2006-2007 - yes, they were at different levels, but in between Lacy and Kessler, Joe had two soft touches (Bika and Manfredo). At that point Froch was in the almost exact same position as Groves is now - undefeated, had won the British and Commonwealth titles, and was ready to test himself at the top level. Calzaghe-Froch should have happened then and I hope similar mistakes are not repeated now.

I wouldn't call Bika a soft touch!

Neil Jones Jnr wrote:Just my two pennies worth:

I love watching Carl Froch fight, always gutsy performances, and what a chin! Have followed him since the BBC days.

However, Froch isn't the Champion. He is a belt holder sure, but the Champion is Ward. The whole point of the Super Six was to determine that. Ward won it at a canter. Now the only doubt after the super six was Bute, then Froch smashes him. So for me the doubt is removed, Ward is the man.

Ward has probably taken the wrong path since the Super Six. They were not fussed on the Bute fight unless it was in California, Froch takes it instead. So Ward takes the Dawson challenge, I don't think anyone even Ward realised how easy that fight would be. In someways I think Ward wishes he took it at 175, as it stands now Ward has very few high profile fights at 168 and the main man at 175 he's already dominated. So where does he go? Well I think he needs the Froch fight, you could see he wants it, and I felt when Sky interviewed him on Saturday he looked annoyed that Hopkins had jumped in and said he'll fight in the UK. He knows Froch is the biggest fight out there.

Now the UK be great, but if not then have it in Vegas. Froch has to take this fight or he'll always be known as number two.

Personally I think Ward wins again, but so what? Froch has lost before and has always come back strong. He has a ton of options even if he loses. Groves will win a title soon imo, and as long as Froch doesn't get knocked out and embarressed that fight would still be a big fight even if Ward beats him again. Then you've got Light Heavy, Cleverly would be interesting, even Bellew perhaps. Not to mention the winner of Bute-Pascal.

Ward is the guy Froch has to beat to be great. If he loses, then he tried and he can still make a lot of money in big fights. Losing to the best never hurt Gatti's career.

I agree with you there