barry hearn,do you agree?

[mickey1975]

Do those claiming that Ward needs Froch for a big payday know how much Ward makes or would likely make against feasible opponents other than Froch?

Ward made around $1.5 million for Dawson and apparently 7 figures for Green, neither of whom is very popular; where is the evidence that Ward needs Froch for big money?

I doubt he does. The Dawson fight will have been regarded at least as hard Stateside.

[lefty]

Do those claiming that Ward needs Froch for a big payday know how much Ward makes or would likely make against feasible opponents other than Froch?

Ward made around $1.5 million for Dawson and apparently 7 figures for Green, neither of whom is very popular; where is the evidence that Ward needs Froch for big money?

I doubt he does. The Dawson fight will have been regarded at least as hard Stateside.

Probably harder to be honest! Id pick Dawson to beat Froch.

[earsjohn]

Do those claiming that Ward needs Froch for a big payday know how much Ward makes or would likely make against feasible opponents other than Froch?

Ward made around $1.5 million for Dawson and apparently 7 figures for Green, neither of whom is very popular; where is the evidence that Ward needs Froch for big money?

I doubt he does. The Dawson fight will have been regarded at least as hard Stateside.

Probably harder to be honest! Id pick Dawson to beat Froch.

At 168lb? No chance. Dawsons only chance against Froch would be up at 175.

[MarkMcBurney]

From a legacy/history POV Froch needs Ward.

From a financial POV Ward needs Froch a LOT more. He's a shocking draw in the states and Froch generates big money over here, more that Ward would make even from a fight against Mayweather.

[crusader]

From a legacy/history POV Froch needs Ward.

From a financial POV Ward needs Froch a LOT more. He's a shocking draw in the states and Froch generates big money over here, more that Ward would make even from a fight against Mayweather.

How much money does Ward make then? How much do you think he would make against Mayweather?

Being 'a shocking draw' hasn't stopped him from making 7 figure purses outside of Froch.

[mickey1975]

From a legacy/history POV Froch needs Ward.

From a financial POV Ward needs Froch a LOT more. He's a shocking draw in the states and Froch generates big money over here, more that Ward would make even from a fight against Mayweather.

Total crap. By far Carl's biggest payday was Kessler, and that was the fight that sold, not the fighter. Do you think Carl got more than Ward when they met? I don't. And if Floyd was to step up 3 weights and fight his unbeaten, P4P no2, whilst taking away around $50m, you think Andre would come out with less than the $3m or so I imagine Carl got for Kessler? Give your head a shake.

[DMA1987]

Do those claiming that Ward needs Froch for a big payday know how much Ward makes or would likely make against feasible opponents other than Froch?

Ward made around $1.5 million for Dawson and apparently 7 figures for Green, neither of whom is very popular; where is the evidence that Ward needs Froch for big money?

He would earn at least triple that v Froch in the UK.

[crusader]

Sure, among feasible opponents Froch may result in Ward's biggest payday, and vice-versa, but what suggests there aren't several well-paying options for Ward outside Froch?

That Ward made $1.5 million against a fighter with a small fan base in Dawson and reportedly at least $1 million against a fringe-contender and fighter with no fan base in Green suggests he can make big money without Froch or other big draws.

[DMA1987]

Sure, among feasible opponents Froch may result in Ward's biggest payday, and vice-versa, but what suggests there aren't several well-paying options for Ward outside Froch?

That Ward made $1.5 million against a fighter with a small fan base in Dawson and reportedly at least $1 million against a fringe-contender and fighter with no fan base in Green suggests he can make big money without Froch or other big draws.

Doesn't he have a deal with HBO which guarantees him that? Regardless of the fighter? I assume it wasn't completely worthwhile for them v Dawson, but will hold him to it against bigger fighters?

[black panther]

Sure, among feasible opponents Froch may result in Ward's biggest payday, and vice-versa, but what suggests there aren't several well-paying options for Ward outside Froch?

That Ward made $1.5 million against a fighter with a small fan base in Dawson and reportedly at least $1 million against a fringe-contender and fighter with no fan base in Green suggests he can make big money without Froch or other big draws.

Froch made more than double that amount for his fight with Kessler. A Froch-Ward fight is the biggest fight in the division money wise. for Ward. In fact most likely the only bigger fight around 168lbs is Ward-Hopkins at 175lbs.

[crusader]

Froch is probably the best paying option for Ward, and vice versa, but that doesn't mean Ward needs Froch for big paydays. The degree to which Ward is struggling because of Froch's absence, if he is, is greatly exaggerated.

I'm not sure what Ward was guaranteed or if he's guaranteed specific purses in the future, but his making the type of money I've mentioned against opponents who aren't draws is evidence that he need not fight a big draw like Froch to earn big money. HBO, like Showtime, view him as the one of the stars of American boxing and I think he'll be paid accordingly. Maybe there will soon be a drastic cut in his purses, but I won't believe it until it—or something that suggests it's likely—occurs.

[DMA1987]

Froch is probably the best paying option for Ward, and vice versa, but that doesn't mean Ward needs Froch for big paydays. The degree to which Ward is struggling because of Froch's absence, if he is, is greatly exaggerated.

I'm not sure what Ward was guaranteed or if he's guaranteed specific purses in the future, but his making the type of money I've mentioned against opponents who aren't draws is evidence that he need not fight a big draw like Froch to earn big money. HBO, like Showtime, view him as the one of the stars of American boxing and I think he'll be paid accordingly. Maybe there will soon be a drastic cut in his purses, but I won't believe it until it—or something that suggests it's likely—occurs.

I could be wrong about the guaranteed $1.5 million, sure somebody mentioned it in another thread and Eddie Hearn mentioned it in an interview also. Not unlikely I have it wrong somewhere though.

In your opinion, what big fights does he have? Fights which will earn him more than the $1.5million?

I can't see many, he brings nothing but talent, which isn't an advantage.

[crusader]

I don't think he necessarily earns more than $1.5 million against most of the feasible opponents there are, but if he's making 7 figures for opponents like Green I think he can pull 7 figures or close to it, which I consider a big payday, especially now that he's better known and backed by a bigger network.

Feasible opponents would include the Bute-Pascal winner, Stevenson if he beats Dawson, Rodriguez if he beats Grachev, Periban if he defeats Bika for Ward's old belt, and possibly Oosthuizen. Golovkin and Chavez Jr. also mentioned that they'd like to fight Ward, and they'd likely be approved by HBO; the latter would also surely result in a payday for Ward exceeding $1.5 million. None of these are mouth-watering opponents, but I've yet to find evidence that he needs that type of opponent to make good money, and I have found evidence that he can make good money without them.

[DMA1987]

I don't think he necessarily earns more than $1.5 million against most of the feasible opponents there are, but if he's making 7 figures for opponents like Green I think he can pull 7 figures or close to it, which I consider a big payday, especially now that he's better known and backed by a bigger network.

Feasible opponents would include the Bute-Pascal winner, Stevenson if he beats Dawson, Rodriguez if he beats Grachev, Periban if he defeats Bika for Ward's old belt, and possibly Oosthuizen. Golovkin and Chavez Jr. also mentioned that they'd like to fight Ward, and they'd likely be approved by HBO; the latter would also surely result in a payday for Ward exceeding $1.5 million. None of these are mouth-watering opponents, but I've yet to find evidence that he needs that type of opponent to make good money, and I have found evidence that he can make good money without them.

Martinez only got $1.5 for fighting Chavez.

Ward won't be happy making $1.5 million when he is watching fighters he has beat (Kessler and Froch) earning far more. He wants a slice of that pie. And to get that slice I'm sorry he needs Froch.

[mickey1975]

The Chavez Jr fight would be much bigger stateside than a Froch rematch.

[crusader]

I don't think he necessarily earns more than $1.5 million against most of the feasible opponents there are, but if he's making 7 figures for opponents like Green I think he can pull 7 figures or close to it, which I consider a big payday, especially now that he's better known and backed by a bigger network.

Feasible opponents would include the Bute-Pascal winner, Stevenson if he beats Dawson, Rodriguez if he beats Grachev, Periban if he defeats Bika for Ward's old belt, and possibly Oosthuizen. Golovkin and Chavez Jr. also mentioned that they'd like to fight Ward, and they'd likely be approved by HBO; the latter would also surely result in a payday for Ward exceeding $1.5 million. None of these are mouth-watering opponents, but I've yet to find evidence that he needs that type of opponent to make good money, and I have found evidence that he can make good money without them.

Martinez only got $1.5 for fighting Chavez.

Ward won't be happy making $1.5 million when he is watching fighters he has beat (Kessler and Froch) earning far more. He wants a slice of that pie. And to get that slice I'm sorry he needs Froch.

Martinez earned that AND a portion of the PPV sales, so he likely earned comfortably over $1.5 million. Not only has Ward already made the figure Martinez was guaranteed and likely 7 figures against someone like Green, he is considered by many to be the top boxer pound-for-pound and I think his status as an American boxing star would help him earn at least as much, and probably more, than Martinez did.

I'm not sure how you know Ward's sentiments about his relative earnings, but aside from that you're missing the point. Sure, Ward-Froch II may be the most lucrative option for Ward, and probably for Froch, but that doesn't mean Ward needs Froch to make large purses or that he's struggling, as claimed, due to Froch's absence. Ward can probably now make 7 figures or close to it against anyone he fights; that's a good position to be in.

[DMA1987]

Martinez earned that AND a portion of the PPV sales, so he likely earned comfortably over $1.5 million. Not only has Ward already made the figure Martinez was guaranteed and 7 figures against someone like Green, he is considered by many to be the top boxer pound-for-pound and I think his status as an American boxing star would help him earn at least as much, and probably more, than Martinez did.

I'm not sure how you know Ward's sentiments about his relative earnings, but aside from that you're missing the point. Sure, Ward-Froch II may be the most lucrative option for Ward, and probably for Froch, but that doesn't mean that Ward needs Froch to make large purses or that he's struggling, as claimed, due to Froch's absence. Ward can probably now make seven figures or close to it against anyone he fights; that's a good position to be in.

I would have though common sense makes it obvious. Calling yourself the 'son of god' shows you have a pretty good level of arrogance about you - arrogance which will dictate to him that he deserves more than them. More than anybody at super middleweight I would guess. I'm sure I heard that for the Dawson fight, which wasn't a small fight as Dawson had just beat Hopkins, had around 6000 people in the actual arena - in Wards home town. And that fight didn't even get that many more views stateside than Froch v Kessler - two europeans. In total worldwide, probably less.

Martinez isn't a huge PPV draw, not even close, but I am positive that he is a bigger one than Ward. There is no point being a P4P boxer when you are generally considered boring, which rightly or wrongly he is, especially to whatever of the mainstream know of him.

[crusader]

Ward may be happy making what he's making on his own terms without having to deal with Froch or Kessler. I also think it's unwise to conclude that because his nickname can be interpreted as arrogant (though he rarely evinces arrogance and he may consider every man a son of God) that he's highly concerned with money; neither quality must follow from the other.

I think being a boxer of Ward's caliber helps procure network backing and facilitates promotion, and I think it's the main reason HBO is heavily supportive of him. You can continually mention his lack of entertainment value and drawing power, but it doesn't bolster your argument because those factors didn't stop him from making the big purses I've already noted; it instead suggests that those factors are not necessarily determinants of what he makes.

For reasons that I've stated, I think Ward makes more or at least a much against Chavez as Martinez did, but I can see the other side of the argument though I disagree with it. I don't, however, see much evidence supporting the position advanced by you and others that Ward is struggling with Froch's absence; Froch may be his most lucrative option, but not taking that option is consistent with making large purses against other fighters.

[jameswilson]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2jg5BVYfXM

Word from Barry Hearn for iFilm London.

[DMA1987]

Ward may be happy making what he's making on his own terms without having to deal with Froch or Kessler. I also think it's unwise to conclude that because his nickname can be interpreted as arrogant (though he rarely evinces arrogance and he may consider every man a son of God) that he's highly concerned with money; neither quality must follow from the other.

Oh come on.

I think being a boxer of Ward's caliber helps procure network backing and facilitates promotion, and I think it's the main reason HBO is heavily supportive of him. You can continually mention his lack of entertainment value and drawing power, but it doesn't bolster your argument because those factors didn't stop him from making the big purses I've already noted; it instead suggests that those factors are not necessarily determinants of what he makes.

I have mentioned his lack of entertainment value once. And I have never said he doesn't make nice sized purses, but for the divisions best to be earning less than people he has already beaten is testament to quite a few of the opinions I have made on him. It would be even more puzzling should he be happy for it to continue. As is further backed up by how he is calling Froch out, not vice versa.

For reasons that I've stated, I think Ward makes more or at least a much against Chavez as Martinez did, but I can see the other side of the argument though I disagree with it. I don't, however, see much evidence supporting the position advanced by you and others that Ward is struggling with Froch's absence; Froch may be his most lucrative option, but not taking that option is consistent with making large purses against other fighters.

As above really. He seems keen to fight Froch, he keeps making noises which would back up that fact. On the night of the Froch v Kessler fight he implored Eddie to pick up the phone.

I am not saying he can't make nice sized purses, and maybe more than Martinez if he faces Chavez (though Chavez has been beaten now - remains to be seen if this affects his pulling power). But even if he does, he will likely still be making less than 2 fighters he beat just made in their last fight.

The divisions leading boxer should make the division leading purses, but he needs Froch to get them. I get completely your point that he can still make good money by not fighting Froch, but not the money a #2 P4P boxer should be making. That's just how it is.

I get your points, though it would be a boring forum if everybody agreed with each other.. :)

[crusader]

It's not unusual for religious sentiment to be expressed broadly (e.g. 'we are all God's children' 'we are all brothers') so even though he may apply the SOG label uniquely to himself I think it's reasonable to consider that he sees the label applying more broadly.

There are intuitive reasons to think Ward is unhappy that Froch and Kessler boxed for larger purses than he's earned, but I'm not convinced that it's a major issue for him and that he's not content with building his record and bank account without Froch; he may be more favorable of making less money but having more control over where the bout is held and other matters. Ward did express interest in a rematch, but fighters usually state that they'll fight anyone, or when faced with the question of facing a certain opponent they will say they want to do so, and it may also be that he wants to fight Froch primarily because Froch is the next best fighter in the division.

I agree that Froch is the way to go for the best money, but Ward has not struggled because of Froch's absence and I don't see much evidence suggesting he'll struggle in the future due to Froch's absence. Still, it may be that Ward soon has his back against the wall and Froch is the only option for even a good payday; we'll have to wait and see.

[DMA1987]

It's not unusual for religious sentiment to be expressed broadly (e.g. 'we are all God's children' 'we are all brothers') so even though he may apply the SOG label uniquely to himself I think it's reasonable to consider that he sees the label applying more broadly.

There are intuitive reasons to think Ward is unhappy that Froch and Kessler boxed for larger purses than he's earned, but I'm not convinced that it's a major issue for him and that he's not content with building his record and bank account without Froch; he may be more favorable of making less money but having more control over where the bout is held and other matters. Ward did express interest in a rematch, but fighters usually state that they'll fight anyone, or when faced with the question of facing a certain opponent they will say they want to do so, and it may also be that he wants to fight Froch primarily because Froch is the next best fighter in the division.

I agree that Froch is the way to go for the best money, but Ward has not struggled because of Froch's absence and I don't see much evidence suggesting he'll struggle in the future due to Froch's absence. Still, it may be that Ward soon has his back against the wall and Froch is the only option for even a good payday; we'll have to wait and see.

Like you say, we will wait and see.

[gobbles]

It sounded like a typical first bid from Hearn. Say Ward needs Froch was just a way of getting Ward not to make all the demands.
Anyway, it's going to be Kessler next, I'd think. Or Hopkins.

[Pug1]

People watch Formula One to see crashes.
People in general watch boxing for tear ups blood and gore.
Schooled boxers in the art of pugilism who hit but don't get hit will never get the kudos they deserve.

Its the Ward holding and hitting plus headbutts I dislike.

[gobbles]

People watch Formula One to see crashes.
People in general watch boxing for tear ups blood and gore.
Schooled boxers in the art of pugilism who hit but don't get hit will never get the kudos they deserve.

Its the Ward holding and hitting plus headbutts I dislike.

Against Kessler, Ward was allowed to get away with a ridiculous amount of fouling. All those cuts were officially an "accidental clash of heads" but he led in with his head everything and that was deliberate.