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Re: Cleverly - Froch is deluded and disrespectful
Posted: 20 Jun 2013, 05:05
by lillywhite14
Mitchell can't complain in terms of opportunity, allegedly done well for him. He didn't really deserve the chances he got but that ties in with his lack of quality opposition before Katsidis. That harmed any chance he had against the Aussie
Re: Cleverly - Froch is deluded and disrespectful
Posted: 20 Jun 2013, 06:20
by SNG
lillywhite14 wrote:Mitchell can't complain in terms of opportunity, allegedly done well for him. He didn't really deserve the chances he got but that ties in with his lack of quality opposition before Katsidis. That harmed any chance he had against the Aussie
Katsidis wasn't exactly world class, Mitchell's win against Prescott proved he could mix it at that level so I don't buy for a second that he wasn't ready due to his opposition.
Re: Cleverly - Froch is deluded and disrespectful
Posted: 20 Jun 2013, 06:24
by jtourettes
SNG wrote:lillywhite14 wrote:Mitchell can't complain in terms of opportunity, allegedly done well for him. He didn't really deserve the chances he got but that ties in with his lack of quality opposition before Katsidis. That harmed any chance he had against the Aussie
Katsidis wasn't exactly world class, Mitchell's win against Prescott proved he could mix it at that level so I don't buy for a second that he wasn't ready due to his opposition.
No way was Prescott on the same level as Katsidis.
Re: Cleverly - Froch is deluded and disrespectful
Posted: 20 Jun 2013, 06:25
by SNG
jtourettes wrote:SNG wrote:lillywhite14 wrote:Mitchell can't complain in terms of opportunity, allegedly done well for him. He didn't really deserve the chances he got but that ties in with his lack of quality opposition before Katsidis. That harmed any chance he had against the Aussie
Katsidis wasn't exactly world class, Mitchell's win against Prescott proved he could mix it at that level so I don't buy for a second that he wasn't ready due to his opposition.
No way was Prescott on the same level as Katsidis.
I'd say they were, both fringe world class with no real top class win.
Re: Cleverly - Froch is deluded and disrespectful
Posted: 20 Jun 2013, 06:27
by TheCobra
I think they built up Mitchell nicely, it was his own failings and demons that seemed to be his major undoing rather than any cotton wooling, remember they put him in with Johansson who could bang so it's hardly like they matched him really easy all his career, he just always seemed a bit too small at lightweight for me.
Re: Cleverly - Froch is deluded and disrespectful
Posted: 20 Jun 2013, 06:40
by stevedoc
TheCobra wrote:I like Clev as a fighter, but being with Warren is doing him no favours, he's struggling for decent fights and his progress seems to have really stalled. Calling out Froch is definitely desperation and publicity seeking.
w@rren will feed cleverly fighters we have never heard of till he's 30 then if he's still about he might get to fight for real a title .
it's such a shame that w@rren fighters very rarely the become the no1 fighter at a weight because w@rren over pretects his fighters normaly ending up leaving him .
i give cleverly 18 months before he jumps to eddie hearn
Re: Cleverly - Froch is deluded and disrespectful
Posted: 20 Jun 2013, 06:43
by Autobarn
ShadrachSimmo wrote:Autobarn wrote:I actually rate cleverly. the raw material is there - fitness, strength, handspeed. he seems tough and can impose himself late in a fight.
but he looks so crude. I think, like froch, also of a gangling, disjointed style, also a guy who gets hit a lot, Nathan needs to learn what he's doing wrong. and the way froch learned this was by fighting the likes of pascal, taylor, dirrell, Kessler, Abraham, Johnson, ward, bute and Kessler again. performances naturally have been uneven but there is a revenge win pointing at a level of improvement, two absolute dominations (bute & Abraham) to rival calzaghe's 2 masterpieces (lacy, Kessler)...
one the plus side for cleverly, he's fairly young. and he also has a division that can test him - awkward/negative boxers like Hopkins and dawson; punchers kovalev, Stevenson, maybe cloud; etc etc etc. and if he can get something from this, there's shumenov holding a title. braehmer isn't that bad, is fairly well rated at the moment. this would be a decent start.
are the german promoters not pushing for it?
get some big wins and then the dream fight with froch can become reality.
cleverly is in a division with a rich history. i'd like to see some urgency as to making his mark. Nathan is probably the freshest guy in the division. I hope they're not waiting for everyone to get old/get beaten.
Froch will be long retired by the time Cleverly wins a big fight.
yeah, my point was, that cleverly would have to do something MASSIVE to get carl's attention
and that both have similarly weird styles, that need testing at a high level to iron out all the bad habits.
as froch has done.
Re: Cleverly - Froch is deluded and disrespectful
Posted: 20 Jun 2013, 06:52
by Autobarn
ThereByTheGrace wrote:Autobarn wrote:I actually rate cleverly. the raw material is there - fitness, strength, handspeed. he seems tough and can impose himself late in a fight.
but he looks so crude. I think, like froch, also of a gangling, disjointed style, also a guy who gets hit a lot, Nathan needs to learn what he's doing wrong. and the way froch learned this was by fighting the likes of pascal, taylor, dirrell, Kessler, Abraham, Johnson, ward, bute and Kessler again. performances naturally have been uneven but there is a revenge win pointing at a level of improvement, two absolute dominations (bute & Abraham) to rival calzaghe's 2 masterpieces (lacy, Kessler)...
one the plus side for cleverly, he's fairly young. and he also has a division that can test him - awkward/negative boxers like Hopkins and dawson; punchers kovalev, Stevenson, maybe cloud; etc etc etc. and if he can get something from this, there's shumenov holding a title. braehmer isn't that bad, is fairly well rated at the moment. this would be a decent start.
are the german promoters not pushing for it?
get some big wins and then the dream fight with froch can become reality.
cleverly is in a division with a rich history. i'd like to see some urgency as to making his mark. Nathan is probably the freshest guy in the division. I hope they're not waiting for everyone to get old/get beaten.
I agree with you totally, he is a very good fighter and I am sure he will prove himself in time.
Better off fighting a few no namers just now because if he wins when he steps up there will be a waiting list a mile long wanting to fight him.
I actually feel anxious for him.
he was apparently being fast tracked, with wins over oakey - very early on - and a domination of fellow-prospect McIntosh, a beautiful performance.
he won that thriller with murat, seemed prepared to eat anything to get his shots in, and despite struggling vs bellew, it was a dangerous and skilled opponent whom we know, and cleverly brought it on late in a 12-rounder that I thought would be a brilliant learning experience.
now, i'm still waiting. not even a bellew rematch. not even braehmer (in fairness to cleverly, the german's "difficulties" prevented the match from happening). and what pisses me off, other fighters at 175 are growing in stature, and cleverly is in the same position as years ago.
also, look at the brits from yesteryear at light heavyweight: chris Finnegan fighting a classic vs bob foster, the most chilling of all light heavyweight punchers, in the '70s, losing fight of the year; conteh having some tough fights, incl Finnegan, in a british/commonwealth/EBU fight to match most world title fights of today - and of course losing a hard fight with legendary hardman saad Muhammad...look at the fights they were having, and look at cleverly stalling. a superfit lad with loads to learn, and we're not seeing the progress - that is worrying.
Re: Cleverly - Froch is deluded and disrespectful
Posted: 20 Jun 2013, 08:36
by grub
If Kovalev is now IBF mandatory he is quite right to go that route. Why turn down the better bargaining position in terms of purse as mandatory compared to voluntary challenger?
He also gets a shot at a much bigger name.
Another example of press conferences etc being arranged before all the paperwork is completed. No surprises there.
Re: Cleverly - Froch is deluded and disrespectful
Posted: 20 Jun 2013, 08:53
by bennyj
Go clev
Re: Cleverly - Froch is deluded and disrespectful
Posted: 20 Jun 2013, 10:06
by Crazyboy
bennyj wrote:Go clev
Exactly!!! he needs to get going....i like him though and as a previous poster just said, i'm just worried he isn't getting anywhere fast
Re: Cleverly - Froch is deluded and disrespectful
Posted: 20 Jun 2013, 16:35
by lillywhite14
TheCobra wrote:I think they built up Mitchell nicely, it was his own failings and demons that seemed to be his major undoing rather than any cotton wooling, remember they put him in with Johansson who could bang so it's hardly like they matched him really easy all his career, he just always seemed a bit too small at lightweight for me.
Johansson was a shell of the fighter he was at that point and even in his pomp he was no more than Euro level at best.
Prescott was a crude wild man who hit the jackpot against Khan. Katsidis, even the old version, was better. Considerably.
Re: Cleverly - Froch is deluded and disrespectful
Posted: 20 Jun 2013, 17:35
by IRLangmaid25
Carl Froch has got far bigger and more interesting fights to be engaged in as he looks to write his legacy as one of the best fighters that this country has ever produced mainly in the shape of either
Rubber match against Mikkel Kessler
Rematching Andre Ward the best Super-Middleweight in the world and the second best pound for pound fighter in the world in Andre Ward.
Unificaition match up against Robert Stieglitz or winner of Sakio Bika and Marco Antonio Periban.
All British showdown against Matchroom stablemate George Groves.
So I don't see Froch or handsome Eddie Hearn seriously considering (if at all) a fight against Nathan Cleverly who apart from beating Tony Bellew has not exactly been pulling up trees in a very competitive Light-Heavyweight division, he should concentrate on his own career rather than trying to call out (arguably) the best pound for pound fighter in the British Isles in the shape of Carl Froch.