BoxRec

Wrong time for it.

Groves is a good fighter, but I think this is a bit too early.

I think Groves has a much better chance than most seem to be giving him, Froch isn't some wrecking machine, I think Groves is capable of outboxing him if he can fight a disciplined 12 rounds.

I can see Froch struggling to get up for this one and Groves capitalising

Final round wrote:

columbo wrote:I think Groves has a far better chance than people are giving him! His boxing over the last couple of fights has tightened up immeasurably I think and he's got decent speed and he can punch. He could possibly outbox Froch although saying that I think Froch's boxing ability is pretty underrated at times. Some people seem to have him down as purely a brawler which isnt the case. The only worry id have for Groves in this fight is his chin holding up. His chin isnt as bad as some people make it out to be but it's not rock solid either and that's not good against a guy like Froch which a granite chin and heavy hands. You only have to look at the Bute fight to see that. Another guy with a questionable chin. I would of preferred to see Groves against Stieglitz or Abraham first but maybe Booth doesnt fancy Groves chances against those guys either and he would rather lose against Froch for good money vs lose against the other two for relative peanuts.

Agreed Columbo

Yep me too, Groves certainly has a good chance, and will be going in with a great tactics, as he has the Booth The dark lord working on them for the next few months. ( mainly jab, move, and don't fecking get caught ) Rob Mac will have a great plan too, but Carl will likely ignore it after a few rounds.

I'm sure Booth sees Stieglitz as a much easier fight, but credit for ignoring him as he doesn't hold a real world title belt.

I agree, even as a big Froch fan, that Groves has a bigger chance than many seem to be giving him. Groves has the style that could beat Froch if Groves has a good day and Froch a bad one.

I can see Groves trying to fight the exact same way as he fought DeGale, pretty negative, boxing at range, loads of feints and trying to nick it on points in a fairly boring way. He will want Froch frustrated and struggling to get in range a la Ward/Dirrell.

Whether Groves has the speed or class of those 2 I doubt, and if he does get caught you can see him wanting to stand and trade and that would be a disaster. 60-40 fight to Froch, but Groves definitely impressed me in his last few, he's unbeaten and full of confidence so it's an interesting enough fight.

I keep thinking George has a chance due to his speed and movement, which are very good, and his power which looks to be more than very good but then i think back to Bute who also had all those attributes. Bute was way more experienced as well although i do think his catastrophic performance against Froch was partly down to freezing on the big occasion. Not sure that will happen to Groves as he seems to have a sound temperament. If that holds up i can see him giving Carl hell for 5/6 rounds but the physical and mental strain he's going to be under will be unlike anything he's experienced and i can see him being stopped on his feet in the second half of the fight.

Groves has proved he can fight on the back foot like Thecobra mentioned in the degale fight... if he can stay light on his feet i would give george a good chance.. however carl is solid and powerful and wears down any fighter in the later stages of a fight and if George stays to long on the inside groves will get caught and in that case itl be lights out for George..

Andypittcov wrote:I can see Froch struggling to get up for this one and Groves capitalising

I think Froch is too much the professional sportsman to not train hard enough or not take an opponent seriously, regardless of what he thinks of their chances. I'm a Groves fan, but I echo the thoughts on here in saying it could be coming a year or so too soon. You can't knock his confidence though, good on him for wanting the fight at this point, I for one will be supporting him.

WelshJack wrote:

mickey1975 wrote:

G0mez wrote:MEN arena.

Really? I would have had it down as The O2. Groves can sell down there.

Yeah 100% O2 Froch and Groves have no links to Manchester so why MEN

According to the O2 arena website, Thirty Seconds to Mars are playing on Nov 23, so I imagine with MEN being the next biggest indoor venue it's the best place for the fight to take place

Really? I would have had it down as The O2. Groves can sell down there.[/quote]
Yeah 100% O2 Froch and Groves have no links to Manchester so why MEN[/quote]

According to the O2 arena website, Thirty Seconds to Mars are playing on Nov 23, so I imagine with MEN being the next biggest indoor venue it's the best place for the fight to take place[/quote]

It's not the next biggest. MEN is bigger. Biggest indoor venue in the UK. It's neutral and it's pretty central. Perfect venue really

SNG wrote:Froch isn't some wrecking machine.

Tell that to Bute, who had a far most established pedigree than Groves incidentally.
At the risk of stating the obvious, boxing is all about levels, and while I like a lot of what I see in Groves, he won't have faced anything like Froch before and I'm consequently with those who feel it's come 12-18 months too early for him. Fighting the likes of Alcoba is not adequate preparation for fighting someone like Carl. He should at the very least have fought a better 'gatekeeper' such as Magee to tune him up for this.
I see the early rounds being reasonably competitive before Groves gets increasingly ragged as Carl keeps the heat on him and walking him down. Late stoppage for the Cobra on the cards IMO.

Deserter wrote:

SNG wrote:Froch isn't some wrecking machine.

Tell that to Bute, who had a far most established pedigree than Groves incidentally.
At the risk of stating the obvious, boxing is all about levels, and while I like a lot of what I see in Groves, he won't have faced anything like Froch before and I'm consequently with those who feel it's come 12-18 months too early for him. Fighting the likes of Alcoba is not adequate preparation for fighting someone like Carl. He should at the very least have fought a better 'gatekeeper' such as Magee to tune him up for this.
I see the early rounds being reasonably competitive before Groves gets increasingly ragged as Carl keeps the heat on him and walking him down. Late stoppage for the Cobra on the cards IMO.

I dont think Magee would be an adequate gatekeeper to prepare for Froch. Personally I think Magee is done. Stieglitz or Abraham would of been the right tests before facing froch I think.

Deserter wrote:

SNG wrote:Froch isn't some wrecking machine.

Tell that to Bute, who had a far most established pedigree than Groves incidentally.
At the risk of stating the obvious, boxing is all about levels, and while I like a lot of what I see in Groves, he won't have faced anything like Froch before and I'm consequently with those who feel it's come 12-18 months too early for him. Fighting the likes of Alcoba is not adequate preparation for fighting someone like Carl. He should at the very least have fought a better 'gatekeeper' such as Magee to tune him up for this.
I see the early rounds being reasonably competitive before Groves gets increasingly ragged as Carl keeps the heat on him and walking him down. Late stoppage for the Cobra on the cards IMO.

So Froch stops one opponent in five and that makes him a wrecking machine? Who else has he done that to at this level? Also I would assume Groves isn't going to stand on the ropes and defend Froch's shots with his face like Bute did.

columbo wrote:

Deserter wrote:

SNG wrote:Froch isn't some wrecking machine.

Tell that to Bute, who had a far most established pedigree than Groves incidentally.
At the risk of stating the obvious, boxing is all about levels, and while I like a lot of what I see in Groves, he won't have faced anything like Froch before and I'm consequently with those who feel it's come 12-18 months too early for him. Fighting the likes of Alcoba is not adequate preparation for fighting someone like Carl. He should at the very least have fought a better 'gatekeeper' such as Magee to tune him up for this.
I see the early rounds being reasonably competitive before Groves gets increasingly ragged as Carl keeps the heat on him and walking him down. Late stoppage for the Cobra on the cards IMO.

I dont think Magee would be an adequate gatekeeper to prepare for Froch. Personally I think Magee is done. Stieglitz or Abraham would of been the right tests before facing froch I think.

Stieglitz is no gatekeeper and even with Abraham's decline the risk-reward ratio is all wrong for that fight. Magee is still by some margin better than any of Groves' recent opponents.

SNG wrote:

Deserter wrote:

SNG wrote:Froch isn't some wrecking machine.

Tell that to Bute, who had a far most established pedigree than Groves incidentally.
At the risk of stating the obvious, boxing is all about levels, and while I like a lot of what I see in Groves, he won't have faced anything like Froch before and I'm consequently with those who feel it's come 12-18 months too early for him. Fighting the likes of Alcoba is not adequate preparation for fighting someone like Carl. He should at the very least have fought a better 'gatekeeper' such as Magee to tune him up for this.
I see the early rounds being reasonably competitive before Groves gets increasingly ragged as Carl keeps the heat on him and walking him down. Late stoppage for the Cobra on the cards IMO.

So Froch stops one opponent in five and that makes him a wrecking machine? Who else has he done that to at this level? Also I would assume Groves isn't going to defend Froch's shots with his face like Bute did.

You've completely missed my point about levels - Froch will ALWAYS look like a wrecking machine against anyone short of true world class... look at what he did to Mack, for example (not sure where you got the 1 stoppage in five from). You honestly think a Euro-level fighter would have lasted the way a Kessler could, for example? In fact, if you honestly think the fact Kessler, Ward and Johnson went the distance with Froch are proof he's not a wrecking machine your criteria for 'wrecking machine' is insanely high given he was in with an undefeated pound-for-pound contender, a former world champ who's never been KO'ed and another former world champ who was only stopped once by a modern great 16 years ago
Presumably by your standards the likes of Duran and Hearns weren't 'wrecking machines' as they had some points wins against durable fighters in their careers as well?
As I also made clear, Bute was a far more proven, accomplished fighter than Groves before stepping in to face Froch - it's great to talk about boxing a measured, accomplished fight, but when you've got an experienced world-titlist all over you from the first bell, it's another thing entirely trying to maintain that gameplan, as we've seen countless times in the past.
Groves has never faced the type of heat Froch will bring and hasn't had adequate preparation for it IMO.
I can see it being competitive in the first few rounds, but as Froch keeps the heat on him, GG is going to get more and more ragged and find himself in deeper waters that Froch is well accustomed to, but he isn't. Late stoppage for the Cobra, with GG doing well enough to learn from it and come again further down the line.

I didn't say one stoppage in five, I meant he stopped one person in round five. Mack was drained and well out of his depth, that's no indication of how hard Froch hits. Taking five rounds to stop Bute when he's stood on the ropes eating your punches is a decent indicator though. Groves is capable of beating Froch, of course that doesn't mean he will as being capable of and actually doing are two different things but this fight is far from a full gone conclusion, I think some might be in for a surprise here.

SNG wrote:I didn't say one stoppage in five, I meant he stopped one person in round five. Mack was drained and well out of his depth, that's no indication of how hard Froch hits. Taking five rounds to stop Bute when he's stood on the ropes eating your punches is a decent indicator though. Groves is capable of beating Froch, of course that doesn't mean he will as being capable of and actually doing are two different things but this fight is far from a full gone conclusion, I think some might be in for a surprise here.

OK, get what you're saying about the one in five, but think it's extremely harsh to actually criticise Froch for taking five rounds to stop a fighter who many viewed as favourite before the bout and who beyond any shadow of debate was stepping in the ring with a far more established pedigree than Groves. Bute just ended up 'shell-shocked' as he hadn't faced anyone to date with Carl's hunger, tenacity and toughness... and there's certainly nothing on Groves' resume to suggest he has either.
Looking good against Euro and British level fighters in no way, shape or form offers a genuine benchmark for how you're going to perform when you make the step up to genuine world class (as we've seen on so many occasions) so I think it's hard to make a credible case at this stage for Groves being "capable" of beating Froch beyond gut instinct. That's exactly why I'd have preferred to have seen George against some of the aforementioned names first, as we'd all have far more visibility then on his true potential.

I'm not criticising him for the Bute fight, it was a great performance but watching it does suggest to me that he isn't a massive puncher, I'd say it was more of a cumulative effect of his punches that stopped Bute, and he has no history of regularly putting people over or hurting them either. If forced to pick I'd pick Froch to stop Groves late, but having seen Groves fight I think he has the tools to beat Froch if he fights the right game plan. You're right to say he has no top wins, but I can only go off what I have seen and what I've seen makes me think he's a far more capable fighter than he resume would suggest. I think this is a good fight, and I think it'll be tight till it ends.

Deserter wrote: You've completely missed my point about levels - Froch will ALWAYS look like a wrecking machine against anyone short of true world class... look at what he did to Mack, for example (not sure where you got the 1 stoppage in five from). You honestly think a Euro-level fighter would have lasted the way a Kessler could, for example? In fact, if you honestly think the fact Kessler, Ward and Johnson went the distance with Froch are proof he's not a wrecking machine your criteria for 'wrecking machine' is insanely high given he was in with an undefeated pound-for-pound contender, a former world champ who's never been KO'ed and another former world champ who was only stopped once by a modern great 16 years ago
Presumably by your standards the likes of Duran and Hearns weren't 'wrecking machines' as they had some points wins against durable fighters in their careers as well?
As I also made clear, Bute was a far more proven, accomplished fighter than Groves before stepping in to face Froch - it's great to talk about boxing a measured, accomplished fight, but when you've got an experienced world-titlist all over you from the first bell, it's another thing entirely trying to maintain that gameplan, as we've seen countless times in the past.
Groves has never faced the type of heat Froch will bring and hasn't had adequate preparation for it IMO.
I can see it being competitive in the first few rounds, but as Froch keeps the heat on him, GG is going to get more and more ragged and find himself in deeper waters that Froch is well accustomed to, but he isn't. Late stoppage for the Cobra, with GG doing well enough to learn from it and come again further down the line.

This is a simple case of levels and Groves is a level below. Very, very confident that George is getting stopped in the mid rounds in a very one-sided fight. Groves just doesn't have the slickness to befuddle Froch. Carl will apply the pressure and Groves will be in very deep water. I just can't see a scenario where George would be able to stick and move and land enough to outwork Froch while simultaneously avoiding enough leather to get through the fight. And I also can't see Groves hurting Froch at all.

Riddick Blowe wrote:

Deserter wrote: You've completely missed my point about levels - Froch will ALWAYS look like a wrecking machine against anyone short of true world class... look at what he did to Mack, for example (not sure where you got the 1 stoppage in five from). You honestly think a Euro-level fighter would have lasted the way a Kessler could, for example? In fact, if you honestly think the fact Kessler, Ward and Johnson went the distance with Froch are proof he's not a wrecking machine your criteria for 'wrecking machine' is insanely high given he was in with an undefeated pound-for-pound contender, a former world champ who's never been KO'ed and another former world champ who was only stopped once by a modern great 16 years ago
Presumably by your standards the likes of Duran and Hearns weren't 'wrecking machines' as they had some points wins against durable fighters in their careers as well?
As I also made clear, Bute was a far more proven, accomplished fighter than Groves before stepping in to face Froch - it's great to talk about boxing a measured, accomplished fight, but when you've got an experienced world-titlist all over you from the first bell, it's another thing entirely trying to maintain that gameplan, as we've seen countless times in the past.
Groves has never faced the type of heat Froch will bring and hasn't had adequate preparation for it IMO.
I can see it being competitive in the first few rounds, but as Froch keeps the heat on him, GG is going to get more and more ragged and find himself in deeper waters that Froch is well accustomed to, but he isn't. Late stoppage for the Cobra, with GG doing well enough to learn from it and come again further down the line.

This is a simple case of levels and Groves is a level below. Very, very confident that George is getting stopped in the mid rounds in a very one-sided fight. Groves just doesn't have the slickness to befuddle Froch. Carl will apply the pressure and Groves will be in very deep water. I just can't see a scenario where George would be able to stick and move and land enough to outwork Froch while simultaneously avoiding enough leather to get through the fight. And I also can't see Groves hurting Froch at all.

I do agree that Carl probably wins by stoppage but I do think Groves does have the power to hurt Froch if he catches him clean. Groves has a few one punch knockouts on his resume; you don't score those types of stoppages unless you can crack.

The only way that Groves can win this fight is on points by working off the back foot, countering and getting the hell out of the way. There's no way he will be able to keep Froch off him for the full 12 rounds and sooner or later he will have to abandon the game plan and engage in a tear up - Froch will want to drag him in the deep end and turn it into an all out slugfest....................if that happens theres only one winner in a shoot out.

I do give Groves more chance that the average Joe as he does possess good skills, decent power and can box to a game plan but I just think it's such a big step up for him and he could be well out of his depth.

Froch does tend struggle againt boxers who are quick and can move but I'm afraid this has come too soon for Groves. I'm a massive Groves Fan but Froch is a different animal and I can only see one outcome. Froch will stop him mid to late rounds.

GreedyG wrote:Groves is good but if he beats Froch at this stage in his career, I'll walk into a gay bar wearing a tutu.

That's no forfeit, you do that regular anyway, don't think you do anything but you enjoy the attention.


Groves for me; he'll have a good plan, hits as hard as anyone Froch has boxed and is young, ambitious and fit. He'll punch a bit of a round, maul a bit and box a bit; I hope the odds are long, I might put £20 on him (high roller eh!)

Kessler definitely rocked Carl to his boots in the 11th and George can punch. It's not out of the question he could hurt him.

If Carl hangs his chin out he will get clocked, iron jaw or no iron jaw.