BoxRec

I think Froch will win, but the value is with Groves. Those who know gambling must agree.

I'm always surprised how many people seem to think Froch can't really box

For me Groves has shown nothing that suggests he can beat Froch. I'm not saying he can't win, but Froch's level is a massive step up. Fighting on the backfoot against a novice who has never shown he can walk down an opponent and scraping a disputed points win proves nothing when you're going up against a guy who has managed to get to fighters like Taylor and Bute. Groves isn't slow, but he isn't Dirrell, throwing a few punches a round and running away will not win him this fight. Froch will hurt him, Groves will start to trade, should be fun

WelshJack wrote:If Groves sticks to a gameplan he wins, he has a speed advantage in my opinion and he could jab his way to the title.

That'[s the key but we all know Groves loves a scrap and will want to look like the 'hard man' next to Froch

If Groves is to win I think he needs to frustrate Froch early with movement, even a bit of running and pot shotting. Then when Froch steps on the gas a bit on his hunting mission Groves needs to plant his fight and throw with power to slow him down, and maybe a bit more running towards the end.

I have a feeling no matter what though, Froch will catch up to him at some point and it will be a huge test of Groves' reserve.

danconnollyeire wrote:

WelshJack wrote:If Groves sticks to a gameplan he wins, he has a speed advantage in my opinion and he could jab his way to the title.

That'[s the key but we all know Groves loves a scrap and will want to look like the 'hard man' next to Froch

Will he? Degale goaded him far more than Froch has with anyone and he stuck to his gameplan.

SNG wrote:

danconnollyeire wrote:

WelshJack wrote:If Groves sticks to a gameplan he wins, he has a speed advantage in my opinion and he could jab his way to the title.

That'[s the key but we all know Groves loves a scrap and will want to look like the 'hard man' next to Froch

Will he? Degale goaded him far more than Froch has with anyone and he stuck to his gameplan.

He might be forced to trade with Froch though to keep him off him. Im not sure the gameplan he employed against Degale would work against Froch to be fair.

columbo wrote: He might be forced to trade with Froch though to keep him off him. Im not sure the gameplan he employed against Degale would work against Froch to be fair.

I didn't say it would, but being forced to trade to keep Froch off him is very different than trading to look the hard man.

SNG wrote:

columbo wrote: He might be forced to trade with Froch though to keep him off him. Im not sure the gameplan he employed against Degale would work against Froch to be fair.

I didn't say it would, but being forced to trade to keep Froch off him is very different than trading to look the hard man.

I wouldnt argue with that.

stevieb_8006 wrote:im amazed how many people genuinely believe groves beat degale. I was glad he got the nod, but in my heart I knew he lost. It certainly wasn't a massively impressive performance for me.

im also starting to wonder if adam booth is hugely overated as a tactician. his tactics seem to consist of his fighters legging it in their biggest fights.

Groves won that fight, and legging it is a bit strong

That fight was as tight as it gets, it could have genuinely gone to either fighter depending on how you scored it, to say either fighter won it convincingly simply isn't true.

SNG wrote:That fight was as tight as it gets, it could have genuinely gone to either fighter depending on how you scored it, to say either fighter won it convincingly simply isn't true.

Agreed. The vast majority of press row had Degale sneaking a win. It could easily have gone either way.

The Law wrote:

SNG wrote:That fight was as tight as it gets, it could have genuinely gone to either fighter depending on how you scored it, to say either fighter won it convincingly simply isn't true.

Agreed. The vast majority of press row had Degale sneaking a win. It could easily have gone either way.

I agree that is one of those pick em fights in terms of result. Saying that though, I think it's pretty clear that Groves has done the most improving out of the two. Degale if anything looks like he's got worse.

columbo wrote:

The Law wrote:

SNG wrote:That fight was as tight as it gets, it could have genuinely gone to either fighter depending on how you scored it, to say either fighter won it convincingly simply isn't true.

Agreed. The vast majority of press row had Degale sneaking a win. It could easily have gone either way.

I agree that is one of those pick em fights in terms of result. Saying that though, I think it's pretty clear that Groves has done the most improving out of the two. Degale if anything looks like he's got worse.

I don't think he's gotten worse, but the standing on the ropes covering up really winds me up. He is excellent when he opens up but why stand there and take punishment when you don't have too?

columbo wrote:

The Law wrote:

SNG wrote:That fight was as tight as it gets, it could have genuinely gone to either fighter depending on how you scored it, to say either fighter won it convincingly simply isn't true.

Agreed. The vast majority of press row had Degale sneaking a win. It could easily have gone either way.

I agree that is one of those pick em fights in terms of result. Saying that though, I think it's pretty clear that Groves has done the most improving out of the two. Degale if anything looks like he's got worse.

I do not think he has deteriorated, in fact he was rather impressive in spurts during his last fight. Maybe a move to Hennessy was not the right decision for Degale. It seemed a rather hasty decision to me.

Ben Carey wrote:Who's with me? I just have a major hunch that Groves will pull this off. I know it's about levels, but I firmly believed that Groves would beat DeGale and he did, and I feel strongly that George will dethrone Froch as well.

Why will Groves win?

He's younger, he cracks HARDER IMO, he's improving and on the up, he's faster and he can box to a strategy devised by the irritatingly smarmy, but clever, Adam "2 Smooth" Booth. Taking the outstanding Bute victory to one side, Froch hasn't looked good against a very faded Kessler, Ward and Glen Johnson. Styles make fights and the only way Froch wins this is if Groves stupidly engages him in a toe-to-toe, but George is far too smart.

I was beginning to think that I was largely on my own, but having spoken to Steve Goodwin this evening, who also massively fancies Groves, I thought I'd declare my hand now. In fact, I just can't see Groves losing this. Timing is everything in Boxing, and this is Groves' time.

Lump on while you can.

When will people stop underestimating Froch?

I can't think of a single way Groves can win this fight. He can't outman Carl, he can't outbox him because he isnt a slickster, he is just a guy with a leaky defence and a solid punch that's a useless weapon in this instance. He'll be forced into running backwards for the whole fight being stalked like a rabbit by a hungry wolverine. Very quickly he'll realise that survival mode is his best option since if he wants to outwork Carl he will have to get in the trenches, something he doesn't have the constitution for at all.
I suppose Betfair is made for people like us...

columbo wrote:

The Law wrote:

SNG wrote:That fight was as tight as it gets, it could have genuinely gone to either fighter depending on how you scored it, to say either fighter won it convincingly simply isn't true.

Agreed. The vast majority of press row had Degale sneaking a win. It could easily have gone either way.

I agree that is one of those pick em fights in terms of result. Saying that though, I think it's pretty clear that Groves has done the most improving out of the two. Degale if anything looks like he's got worse.

I do not think he has deteriorated, in fact he was rather impressive in spurts during his last fight. Maybe a move to Hennessy was not the right decision for Degale. It seemed a rather hasty decision to me.[/quote]


The guy he was fighting though was a complete can, lets be honest.

columbo wrote:

The Law wrote:

SNG wrote:That fight was as tight as it gets, it could have genuinely gone to either fighter depending on how you scored it, to say either fighter won it convincingly simply isn't true.

Agreed. The vast majority of press row had Degale sneaking a win. It could easily have gone either way.

I agree that is one of those pick em fights in terms of result. Saying that though, I think it's pretty clear that Groves has done the most improving out of the two. Degale if anything looks like he's got worse.

I don't think he's gotten worse, but the standing on the ropes covering up really winds me up. He is excellent when he opens up but why stand there and take punishment when you don't have too?[/quote]


Thats what im saying though. He wasnt doing those things in the past as much. He seems to of starting going back on to the ropes more in his latter fights.

DeGale has had a knee injury hasn't he? I'm sure I read that it had affected both his mobility and power and that was a reason for boxing off the ropes; that can only add to his game when he's fit and healthy. Both DeGale and Groves are excellent boxers, I'm sure Groves will give a really good account of himself and so will DeGale when he gets his shot. Groves comes cross very well and DeGale was a nob head in the build up to their bout; if George had won an Olympic Gold and had all the ballyhoo though it may have turned his head. DeGale seems to have settled a bit; those 2 boxers are the future of the SuperMiddle division in the UK (and maybe Martin Murray in 12 months).

jessi wrote:

stevieb_8006 wrote:im amazed how many people genuinely believe groves beat degale. I was glad he got the nod, but in my heart I knew he lost. It certainly wasn't a massively impressive performance for me.

im also starting to wonder if adam booth is hugely overated as a tactician. his tactics seem to consist of his fighters legging it in their biggest fights.

Groves won that fight, and legging it is a bit strong

was gona defend my comment, but every1 else has kindly done it for me

im surprised so many people think groves jab is gona be the difference. carls used the jab brilliantly in the past (vs AA, the last Kessler fight etc). And hes got quite the reach advantage in this 1 I believe.

WelshJack wrote:If Groves sticks to a gameplan he wins, he has a speed advantage in my opinion and he could jab his way to the title.

this idea that a 'gameplan' can win it for him befuddles me. (never mind the fact that Froch himself totally outjabbed an accomplished (at world level) jabber in Kessler, as opposed to Groves who jabbed a Panamanian taxi driver in the face, once, I think it was in 2012)

in another forum life, i recall one poster banging on and on about how 'all you need to beat Mayweather is a good gameplan'

thats an extreme and silly example, maybe, but to those of you thinking/assuming Groves has the right gameplan (and I'm not sure the 'usual' smash n grab raid of Team Booth IS the right one, here) surely you have to appreciate what happens to people with gameplans when they get, umm, punched really hard in the face?

the question isn't whether Groves is 'disciplined' enough to 'stick to' the gameplan. I'm sure he'll be running for his life as per Booth's instructions.

the question is, is he good enough and experienced enough to pull it off?

what happens when he's trapped on the ropes? my guess is he gets to experience a little bit of what fvcked Bute's career in the ass.

stevieb_8006 wrote:im surprised so many people think groves jab is gona be the difference. carls used the jab brilliantly in the past (vs AA, the last Kessler fight etc). And hes got quite the reach advantage in this 1 I believe.

I think people forget that Carl was one of our best amateur boxers of recent times - you don't win a world champs bronze and two ABA titles without being able to box a bit.

Deserter wrote:

stevieb_8006 wrote:im surprised so many people think groves jab is gona be the difference. carls used the jab brilliantly in the past (vs AA, the last Kessler fight etc). And hes got quite the reach advantage in this 1 I believe.

I think people forget that Carl was one of our best amateur boxers of recent times - you don't win a world champs bronze and two ABA titles without being able to box a bit.

He boxed quite similar to how he does now though, he's obviously had good physical advantages (garnered through hard training and discipline); it's not as though he used an upright, classical style with a jab and a one two as an amateur and altered his style massively as a pro. I don't think that we'll see a sudden deterioration in his skills or fitness as he is so focused but I think his chin will crack, his defense is not amazing and he has had some serious whacks in his time; they will catch up and Groves hits as hard as anyone in the division.

Groves sparred with Dirrell didn't he?

I expect Groves to not engage...and try to time Froch onto his right hand. Groves' power has improved a lot. He throws his punches in a much more relaxed way now.

But as the fight wears on he will have to stand with Froch at times.

Groves' downfall might be that on landing a couple of solid shots he has Froch in trouble...but once it goes to the trenches Carl will be the one climbing out.

It'll be a top fight. Groves is a live underdog but I expect Froch's experience to be key.

DeGale might be better off holding on for 12 months. I think James is improving too. I hope to see a rematch with Groves soon.

It's fair to say he brought the jab back in a big way around the time of the AA fight and since then hasn't let it back out of his bag of tricks. More so, in the past few fights he's actually jabbing from the shoulder rather than from the waist which in my book, makes a huge difference.

I think Groves might do better than most are giving him credit for but I question the logic of pointing to the win over DeGale as some sort of barometer of him definitely beating Froch. That win was about as narrow as they come (most had it a draw) and Froch, despite his "limitations" at times, is far more accomplished & savvy than DeGale is, or ever will be. I thought he was far too open in stages, even late on, against Johnson.

Too many IFs for me.

I think I said this elsewhere, but I reckon it comes down to the last 4-5 rounds, where Froch historically appears to get stronger and where Groves may find his stamina being questioned, particularly if he's been light on his feet and circling. Even more so if it's become a physical encounter, which I'm guessing Froch will be looking to make it.