BoxRec

I agree with you, but then who is there in Tyson's opposition that's close to Lewis's mix of skills? I'm not saying that means he'll win it, but it suggests that he'd have a chance. Thomas landed well with a jab very like Lewis's, Tyrell Biggs also landed despite looking terrified (and he's the closest analog to Lewis during Tyson's prime - same height, decent jab). The "If you take away Lewis's jab" is a big ask. I can believe that I might be wrong about this, but I certainly couldn't see Tyson winning 10 out of 10.

Actually, I just watched the Biggs fight again, and it's kind of instructive. Tyson coming forward in straight lines, Biggs, despite flinching every time Tyson bobs, is landing plenty of jabs, and Tyson is having to leap past them to land his own. Now imagine the same height and reach advantage, but it's Lennox's piston, not Tyrell's pitty pat, and the leaping in is going to get you that uppercut counter. It's a hard match for Tyson however you cut it. He's definitely going to win some of the 10, and probably by KO, but I still see Lewis winning more.

Biggs boxes beautifully in round one, until he gets hit hard in the second. Biggs could stay on his feet under a big shot better than Lewis, and can't see Lewis enduring the heavy beating Biggs took. But it is an interesting example, an example of Tyson's great dictum "everyone has a plan until the get hit."

Tubbs is another one who boxed exquisitely for one round, then got hit.

Ambling Alp II wrote:I think it is worth mentioning that Tucker hurt his hand somewhere in the middle of the fight. It was pretty close up until that point. Not saying Tucker would have won, but it would have been closer.

Tyson-Lewis has been talked about many times before. Often someone will say that Lewis chin would not be able to stand up to several good shots from Tyson, and that may be be so.
However, what about Tyson's chin? Why is it that his chin is rarely questioned? I think we saw in the Douglas fight that he didn't exactly have a great chin.

Tyson had one of the best chins in HW history.

It was his attitude and Stamina/Fitness that was his downfall. Not that it's an excuse, it's a shortcoming of a boxer.

But to question his chin is absurd imo

CrazyHorse wrote:Both at their absolute peak. Let's say a 1987-1988 version of Tyson vs a 1999-2000 version of Lewis. Who wins. I got Tyson

If the ref lets lewis lean and hug tyson like a gay barista....TYSON by lopsided UD

otherwise tyson by KO

__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kft7xzGM2Qk

observer1 wrote:

Ambling Alp II wrote:I think it is worth mentioning that Tucker hurt his hand somewhere in the middle of the fight. It was pretty close up until that point. Not saying Tucker would have won, but it would have been closer.

Tyson-Lewis has been talked about many times before. Often someone will say that Lewis chin would not be able to stand up to several good shots from Tyson, and that may be be so.
However, what about Tyson's chin? Why is it that his chin is rarely questioned? I think we saw in the Douglas fight that he didn't exactly have a great chin.

Tyson had one of the best chins in HW history.

It was his attitude and Stamina/Fitness that was his downfall. Not that it's an excuse, it's a shortcoming of a boxer.

But to question his chin is absurd imo

One of the best in history? I don't mean to be offensive, but where is the proof?

Alp, you have to admit Tyson was pretty sturdy. He boxed at a high level, took a lot of shots, and yet how many times was he down? How many times did we see him even wobble?

Ruddock whacked him with some absolute dingers across two fight and couldn't budge him.

I saw him get knocked out by Buster Douglas. Yes they were good shots, but they sure as heck were not "bombs". There is no way that those shots knockout out someone with the one of best chins in history.

He was in la la land from the punches that a faded Holyfield hit him with. Holyfield could punch, but they were not bombs.

He didn't have a glass jaw or anything like that. However, he certainly did not have a great chin.
He is not going to stand up to several of Lewis' best shots. Maybe he would not have to; but that is another story.

But you are referring to fights past the half way fight where Tyson was ground down- all I know is the pace and intensity of Douglas and Holyfield in their fights was something Lewis was never able to deliver in his own fights- presumably because he is just so large.

Fair enough if someone thinks Lewis beats Tyson, I personally don't see him having the speed or workrate to wear Tyson down, nor the chin to survive one shot from him.

Ambling Alp II wrote:I saw him get knocked out by Buster Douglas. Yes they were good shots, but they sure as heck were not "bombs". There is no way that those shots knockout out someone with the one of best chins in history.

He was in la la land from the punches that a faded Holyfield hit him with. Holyfield could punch, but they were not bombs.

He didn't have a glass jaw or anything like that. However, he certainly did not have a great chin.
He is not going to stand up to several of Lewis' best shots. Maybe he would not have to; but that is another story.

To be fair Mike said himself he had bad training camps for those fights and didn't give it 100% and would sleep around with women ect. I know it's his fault but that was not a 100% Mike Tyson right there. Tyson had a heck of a chin imo. You take any fighter and take many flush shots to the chin and they're going to get effected by em

I said before. This is potentially a dull fight. Lewis lands a couple of right hands early and then both guys fight cautiously the rest of the way.

Seamus wrote:I said before. This is potentially a dull fight. Lewis lands a couple of right hands early and then both guys fight cautiously the rest of the way.

A prime Mike Tyson throw caution into the wind?

Seamus wrote:I said before. This is potentially a dull fight. Lewis lands a couple of right hands early and then both guys fight cautiously the rest of the way.

When did Tyson ever fight cautiously?

If Bonecrusher and Ruddock's shots didn't put him on the backfoot, I can't see why Lewis's punch power would?

Tony Tucker made a prime Tyson respect his power with one shot in the first round. Tyson clearly won the bout, but Tucker still made Tyson think about it.

Tyson immediately ran right back at Tucker and resumed the attack and Tucker continued to give ground, and still TNT had to take some huge whacks to the chin - whacks Lewis clearly cannot take.

Ambling Alp II wrote:

observer1 wrote:

Ambling Alp II wrote:I think it is worth mentioning that Tucker hurt his hand somewhere in the middle of the fight. It was pretty close up until that point. Not saying Tucker would have won, but it would have been closer.

Tyson-Lewis has been talked about many times before. Often someone will say that Lewis chin would not be able to stand up to several good shots from Tyson, and that may be be so.
However, what about Tyson's chin? Why is it that his chin is rarely questioned? I think we saw in the Douglas fight that he didn't exactly have a great chin.

Tyson had one of the best chins in HW history.

It was his attitude and Stamina/Fitness that was his downfall. Not that it's an excuse, it's a shortcoming of a boxer.

But to question his chin is absurd imo

One of the best in history? I don't mean to be offensive, but where is the proof?

Did you ever see Tyson get KO'd like Lewis? Klitschko?

Tyson's losses were a result of accumulating a beating thanks to a shoddy defense and an awful attitude in the run up and in the fights he was in.

Look at Foreman and Ali - They had sturdy chin's - but suffered TKO's because of getting hit too much.

Can't belive im even having this discussion

Seamus wrote:Tony Tucker made a prime Tyson respect his power with one shot in the first round. Tyson clearly won the bout, but Tucker still made Tyson think about it.

You mean a professional boxer got hit and readjusted to try and not get hit? wow.

Lewis would be super cautious. Very respectful. But once he landed a right hand or two of his own then Tyson would be far less aggressive himself. Once that happens it will only go one way.

Tyson has a good chance but Lennox would have to be favourite.

Ezzard wrote:Lewis would be super cautious. Very respectful. But once he landed a right hand or two of his own then Tyson would be far less aggressive himself. Once that happens it will only go one way.

Tyson has a good chance but Lennox would have to be favourite.

Yeah, even in his prime, when Tyson used to get hit, he kind of back off a little bit. A little gun shy.

I still pick Tyson, though.

Lennox Lewis wins hands down, both in their prime mean that : Tyson was stronger, faster and more intimidating but Lewis had his boxing skill, top amateur boxing background and the coaching/planning for his opponents

northern wrote:Lennox Lewis wins hands down, both in their prime mean that : Tyson was stronger, faster and more intimidating but Lewis had his boxing skill, top amateur boxing background and the coaching/planning for his opponents

Yeah, Lennox had the great Emmanuel Steward as his trainer in the late 90s and early 2000s. But people forget that Kevin Rooney was developing Tyson into something big. I don't think, for me, that I saw the very best of Iron Mike. Once he let Rooney go, it was all downhill for him.

northern wrote:Lennox Lewis wins hands down, both in their prime mean that : Tyson was stronger, faster and more intimidating but Lewis had his boxing skill, top amateur boxing background and the coaching/planning for his opponents

There is absolutely no way, Lewis wins this 'hands down'. Lewis has never faced a fighter with the mix of handspeed, one punch power, and head movement that Tyson posses. Lewis was shook up by virtually every hard puncher he faced (Bruno, Mercer, Klitischko, Tucker, Briggs) Even getting floored by Akiwande. And thats not including being knocked out by 2 gate keepers Rahman and McCall. Tyson on the other hand went toe to toe with Bruno, Ruddock, Bonecrusher amongst others and never looked in trouble. (Tyson to me didnt look stunned against Bruno in the first round)

Lewis's only hope is to hold on for the full 12 rounds, if he wants to remain on his feet, a lot like he was doing against an old faded Tyson. But prime for prime, Tyson knocks Lewis out in 6, this fight will be similar to how Tyson dismantled Pinklon Thomas.

Good analysis. I'd favour Lennox a little more than you, but I'm with you on most of it. I did, however, see both Bruno and Pinklon Thomas rattle Tyson at least briefly.

SamWise72 wrote:Good analysis. I'd favour Lennox a little more than you, but I'm with you on most of it. I did, however, see both Bruno and Pinklon Thomas rattle Tyson at least briefly.

And other fighters had their moments with Lewis as well.

SamWise72 wrote:Good analysis. I'd favour Lennox a little more than you, but I'm with you on most of it. I did, however, see both Bruno and Pinklon Thomas rattle Tyson at least briefly.

I thought Tyson was a little off balance against Bruno, I actually thought Tyson was hurt more by Bonecrusher in the 12th round of their fight. Bruno had a big punch though, Witherspoon said in an interview I read that Bruno was the hardest puncher he ever faced.

montrealsuper wrote:Gotta favor Lewis. Tyson himself said after he lost to Lewis, "I could never beat this guy, he's just too big and too strong."

But maybe Tyson himself even forgets just how amazingly great he was back in 86-88.

Just kinda feel Lewis had the size and smarts and strength to outbox and control young Mike, Tyson even in his prime had some trouble with big tall smart boxers like Tillis and Tucker and Lewis was far better than those two.

Lewis WI2

Ironically, this board believes Tyson would have beaten Lewis despite Tyson having said that. Yet, they use a similar statement as 'evidence' that James Jeffries could never of beaten Jack Johnson. And to a smaller degree, people use it as 'evidence' that Marciano would always beat Louis.

For me, the first round shows me that at Tyson's best, Lewis would have been kayoed. The fact that Tyson was out of shape, no longer had any desire for the business and was broke, shows that even that version made Lewis's eyes glaze over in that first round. Then again, maybe I am downplaying the resolve of Lennox Lewis to come back after facing adversity. However, at the end of the day, the greatest victory he ever had was over an old, shadow that was once Mike Tyson.

Jesus bless.