BoxRec

JamesH wrote:I think there may have been another fight last night which showed what you need to do when you have lost a world title fight. Last night didn't define Cleverly, what he does now will do that.

Lasr night defined hin clearly for me. He aint good enough for the top level.

I've said on another thread on the same subject , Cleverley wasn't bad ,he just fought someone with cement in his gloves and when you meet someone like that , or Golovkin, there's nothing anyone can do. When they hit you , no matter where they land , it hurts , badly. I'm surprised anyone can hold the hook and jab pads for him !!!
I suppose you could dance round the ring like a gymnast for a few rounds but eventually they're going to land . Kovalev would break Hopkins' old bones but what a tear up with Stevenson !!! Adonis would get knocked spark out in about 90 seconds , but it would be exciting while it lasted .

forcefraser wrote:

JamesH wrote:I think there may have been another fight last night which showed what you need to do when you have lost a world title fight. Last night didn't define Cleverly, what he does now will do that.

Lasr night defined hin clearly for me. He aint good enough for the top level.

I don't think any neutral ever thought he was going to be the next Joe Cazalghe. The fact he lost at the top level (or close to it) is not a major shock, however if he came back with some honest wins and accumulated some modest achievements off the back of those wins, I think he'd get more respect than he got in his reign as 'world champion'.

Clev doesn't move enough for me gets hit and stands there with gloves up.

loaded_gloves wrote:I think we confirmed once again the WBO belt is no guarantee of world class.

very true it's easy to say now but i was never convinced that nathan was a real world class fighter but kovalev has that same style of punching that many great punchers have like gerrald mcclellan or foreman have of punching right through the target and really turning their bodies in to punch.

WelshJack wrote:Clev doesn't move enough for me gets hit and stands there with gloves up.

I agree with that, until now his best defence has been his attack. He stopped opponents from getting their punches off by punching in bursts. As soon as he couldnt stand and trade he was found stuck.

I still think Cleverley is 'World Class' to the point that he is capable of beating certain top level opponents but obviously Kovalev just simply hits too hard. From what we have seen I wouldnt expect cleverley to be the last person not to see the half way mark against Kovalev.

I guess it makes all the Carl Froch fight talk that Clev and Warren came out with sound like total deludedness now. Froch would annihilate him.

I think people are writing him off too soon. He's never being a world champion for me that's just a belt he was awarded for beating moderate international opposition.

I scored the fight with Bellew a draw for what it's worth but I think that Bellew is the better fighter.

There has being no progress from Cleverley for many years now. He was a pretty tremendous prospect in his day, naturally gifted, good power fair chin, would pick nice shots in between his flurries. However training with his dad - there has only being regression. Look at his footwork and defence last night.

Enzo Calzaghe was a one off with an incredibly talented son. I think that they just believed that they would be able to do it too. You look at the pad work they do and I don't see anything progressive at all. Where's all the clever use of angles and tactics. This guys got a phd or something in maths hasn't he?

He needs a decent trainer fast - then he's got a shot at doing more.

He can definitely come again, he has a lot going for him, but a new trainer, new approach/mentality to defence and probably a better promoter would all help him make progress now. The defeat could be the wake-up call he needed to go on to better things than just plodding along with weak defences of a paper title and large periods of inactivity.

Rematch with Hawk.

Whos the guy with the hat doing his padwork in the open air video, all they seem to be doing is throwing single shots ........did they really think that would work.

I still cant understand why allegedly took the fight... it was very dangerous, not a big fight, as Kovalev wasn't well, it would'nt have advanced him that much...

Did allegedly get wind Nathan was going to leave him?

Cleverley summised in his interview what it would take to defeat killavev he said a slick boxer. Nc thought he could tough it out & then SEE what killa had!! That is fukin stupid especially for somebody with a degree!!
I wouldn't be suprised if he jacks it in as he enjoys how he fights & I don't think after winning a world title he will have the minerals to go back to the drawing board after his interview. Deffo needs to sack his dad or maybe he pays him shite which wouldn't suprise me as the welsh are squeaky.

Killa is a very decent attacking fighter but is your typical Russian he is upright stiff throws everything correctly & precisely a very good boxer who works everything off the jab as you should. You need to take his jab away & he's beatable but still very dangerous clev will never beat this guy

Are some of you for real?? Clev is still a good fighter, a mixture of things happened in this fight 1) Kovalov was a lot better than anyone expected and hit very very Hard 2) Clevs tactics were terrible he had to throw his combinations and move away from Kov 3) His training was clearly wrong I believe that's down to his dad if anyone has heard him in a interview he speaks nonsense should not be near any pro fighter never mind a fringe world level.. Could Clev have beaten Kov? Hard to say I believe he has the skills to do it but this is now a test if the mans character he needs to get a new trainer!! As for Froch!!! He doesn't hit anywhere near as hard Kov and Clev still has a granite chin back to the drawing board I think work on defence and movement.. Maybe consider going up to Cruiser we will see.. I personally think he may quit we will see

reggaereggae wrote:I still cant understand why allegedly took the fight... it was very dangerous, not a big fight, as Kovalev wasn't well, it would'nt have advanced him that much...

Did allegedly get wind Nathan was going to leave him?

I think the fact that only 6000 people turned up in his own back yard to watch him fight one of the most explosive guys in boxing might give you a clue. Boxing is business and money needs to be made.

daviddee wrote:Are some of you for real?? Clev is still a good fighter, a mixture of things happened in this fight 1) Kovalov was a lot better than anyone expected and hit very very Hard 2) Clevs tactics were terrible he had to throw his combinations and move away from Kov 3) His training was clearly wrong I believe that's down to his dad if anyone has heard him in a interview he speaks nonsense should not be near any pro fighter never mind a fringe world level.. Could Clev have beaten Kov? Hard to say I believe he has the skills to do it but this is now a test if the mans character he needs to get a new trainer!! As for Froch!!! He doesn't hit anywhere near as hard Kov and Clev still has a granite chin back to the drawing board I think work on defence and movement.. Maybe consider going up to Cruiser we will see.. I personally think he may quit we will see

what granite chin is that? tha same one amir khan has! i bet you could still put johnny nelson in with kovalev and he would go the distance. if you dont have sound fundamentals(defence) , you cant call yourself world class. always the same with alledgedly fighters...go for a shitey title against the weakest possible opponent then defend against guys who mysteriously turn up in the rankings from nowhere , until forced to fight world class opposition who then ko them with ease. its been happening for years, and will continue to do so until they are matched with progressively tough and testing fighters designed to promote developement and improvement until they become the finished article.

hurlock wrote:Cleverley summised in his interview what it would take to defeat killavev he said a slick boxer. Nc thought he could tough it out & then SEE what killa had!! That is fukin stupid especially for somebody with a degree!!
I wouldn't be suprised if he jacks it in as he enjoys how he fights & I don't think after winning a world title he will have the minerals to go back to the drawing board after his interview. Deffo needs to sack his dad or maybe he pays him shite which wouldn't suprise me as the welsh are squeaky.

Killa is a very decent attacking fighter but is your typical Russian he is upright stiff throws everything correctly & precisely a very good boxer who works everything off the jab as you should. You need to take his jab away & he's beatable but still very dangerous clev will never beat this guy

Slightly racist.

forcefraser wrote:

reggaereggae wrote:I still cant understand why allegedly took the fight... it was very dangerous, not a big fight, as Kovalev wasn't well, it would'nt have advanced him that much...

Did allegedly get wind Nathan was going to leave him?

I think the fact that only 6000 people turned up in his own back yard to watch him fight one of the most explosive guys in boxing might give you a clue. Boxing is business and money needs to be made.

It only holds around 6,000 there were only from what I could see single seats available.

jimcook wrote:until they are matched with progressively tough and testing fighters designed to promote developement and improvement until they become the finished article.

I never understand this argument, it almost seems to assume that anyone can be taken and turned into a real fighter if they have the right 'development'.

Cleverly just isn't that good, he never was and he never will be, the best 'steady progression' in the world would not have changed that fact.

Riddick Blowe wrote:

jimcook wrote:until they are matched with progressively tough and testing fighters designed to promote developement and improvement until they become the finished article.

I never understand this argument, it almost seems to assume that anyone can be taken and turned into a real fighter if they have the right 'development'.

Cleverly just isn't that good, he never was and he never will be, the best 'steady progression' in the world would not have changed that fact.

That statement makes perfect sense to me. The fighter has to have the potential in the first place which i think everyone saw in his fight with Danny McIntosh but it went undeveloped for years. NC has attributes that could possibly be moulded into a world class finished article.

I hold up Kelly Pavlik as the template for using matchmaking to max a fighter's potential, he faced some adversity on the way up so was prepared for it as the quality of competition increased. If Bruce Trampler was on the case in Nathan's (or David Price's) career a better performances would have been inevitable i think.

Shirow wrote:

Riddick Blowe wrote:

jimcook wrote:until they are matched with progressively tough and testing fighters designed to promote developement and improvement until they become the finished article.

I never understand this argument, it almost seems to assume that anyone can be taken and turned into a real fighter if they have the right 'development'.

Cleverly just isn't that good, he never was and he never will be, the best 'steady progression' in the world would not have changed that fact.

That statement makes perfect sense to me. The fighter has to have the potential in the first place which i think everyone saw in his fight with Danny McIntosh but it went undeveloped for years. NC has attributes that could possibly be moulded into a world class finished article.

I hold up Kelly Pavlik as the template for using matchmaking to max a fighter's potential, he faced some adversity on the way up so was prepared for it as the quality of competition increased. If Bruce Trampler was on the case in Nathan's (or David Price's) career a better performances would have been inevitable i think.

You could see 'potential' in a lot of fighters that never made it to the top. Audley, James Hare, Wayne Alexander, Gary Lockett, the list goes on and on. The fact that they didn't make it isn't because of any 'poor progression' or 'wasn't given the chance to develop properly', it's because they clearly were not good enough. Cleverly is in that bracket.

Lads, he wasn't a real champion in the real sense of the word, but in his defence, I believe he would have taken a big opponent at the first opportunity. Wouldn't be the first boxer with delusions of grandeur and there is nothing like a harsh loss to help you with that. Let him lick his wounds and (should he choose to) come again. That is far classier than kicking him when he's down. Still, at least it proves the forum doesn't discriminate. It seems that unless they are (a) your their hometown fighter (b) average (or worse) but post on here, or (c) with a promoter nobody gives a rat's arse about - that they are damned if they do, damned if they don't.

Finally, Hurlock, allow me to confirm that getting a degree does not mean you are without fault and not capable of mistakes. While no genius, Cleverly is a reasonably educated man and I don't believe that should be used as a stick to beat him with when he drops the ball, particularly when its a ball he never really had.

Riddick Blowe wrote:You could see 'potential' in a lot of fighters that never made it to the top. Audley, James Hare, Wayne Alexander, Gary Lockett, the list goes on and on. The fact that they didn't make it isn't because of any 'poor progression' or 'wasn't given the chance to develop properly', it's because they clearly were not good enough. Cleverly is in that bracket.

Audley was at least technically good enough, it was other issues that were the problem.

forcefraser wrote:

reggaereggae wrote:I still cant understand why allegedly took the fight... it was very dangerous, not a big fight, as Kovalev wasn't well, it would'nt have advanced him that much...

Did allegedly get wind Nathan was going to leave him?

I think the fact that only 6000 people turned up in his own back yard to watch him fight one of the most explosive guys in boxing might give you a clue. Boxing is business and money needs to be made.

Yes, but Warren could have made decent money from letting Clev fight stiffs, and then throwing him into a big money fight eg a unification. Rather tha thrown him in a dangerous fight with little reward

I find it kind of funny how people are completely writing Cleverly off after this loss. To be honest im not a huge fan of his style but to me Kovalev was a bad style matchup for him in hindsight as much as anything! I think Nathan would have a very good chance against a lot of the other top fighters and the champions in the divison! For instance id fancy Hopkins to beat Kovalev and yet I think Nathans style would give Hopkins a lot of problems.