Joe Frazier vs . David Tua

[p4p1]

Foreman had everything that looked good against tomato cans and vs... Joe Frazier.

I asked this question many times before, but what are the best one-punch knockdowns or knockouts scored by Foreman during 1970s that are on film? Where he didn't need to wear an opponent down or land several clean punches before getting them on the canvas?

Tua kept up the pace vs Ike, which still holds the record at heavyweight. To think that he wouldn't be able to keep up the pace is plain silly.

Frazier might have had all the skills in the world, they didn't work at all vs primitive, but powerful and hard-hitting slugger like Foreman.

Foreman is arguably the most dangerous HW of all time sure there were holes in his game but he more than made up for it.

[Senya13]

Punchers are always dangerous, that's why champions and contenders changed so often in the super heavyweight era, for example, so many of them could hit hard. Foreman was limited and predictable, just as David Tua was/is. This didn't stop a 1-5 underdog from annihilating Frazier, but it also didn't make him less unskilful than he was, as several other opponents showed. Styles make fights.

[BoxBuzz]

Frazier might not flatten Tua....but he would tenderize him. No way Tua gets anything but a first class beating. And yep, he might be standing at the end. But nobody would want to be him at the end of the 12th round...much much less the end of the 15th.

I've watched Tua fight, I've watched Frazier fight...from close up.

This just would not work out for David.

[polecateddy]

Frazier might not flatten Tua....but he would tenderize him. No way Tua gets anything but a first class beating. And yep, he might be standing at the end. But nobody would want to be him at the end of the 12th round...much much less the end of the 15th.

I've watched Tua fight, I've watched Frazier fight...from close up.

This just would not work out for David.

You seem to be assuming that Frazier can take Tua's power. Frazier was hardly unhittable. And he sure couldn't take Foreman's power. He folded both times.

[gilgamesh]

Frazier might not flatten Tua....but he would tenderize him. No way Tua gets anything but a first class beating. And yep, he might be standing at the end. But nobody would want to be him at the end of the 12th round...much much less the end of the 15th.

I've watched Tua fight, I've watched Frazier fight...from close up.

This just would not work out for David.

You seem to be assuming that Frazier can take Tua's power. Frazier was hardly unhittable. And he sure couldn't take Foreman's power. He folded both times.

Tua don't hit like Foreman, virtually nobody does. Foreman is one of the most powerful punchers in the history of the Heavyweight division and could hurt guys with either hand.

Tua wasn't as ferocious and aggressive as Foreman, and didn't have as good of an all around game as Foreman. Crude though he was, I still think Foreman was a technically better fighter than Tua, who was mostly a one trick pony.

Tua was a strong, come forward guy who had a great chin and a great left hook. I don't think that would be enough to get the job done against one of the very best Heavyweights of all time. You mention that Tua was able to keep up the ferocious pace in the Ibeabuchi fight, so he would against Joe...a fair point, but I counter with the fact that Joe would be landing cleaner and thus doing more damage than Ibeabuchi did too Tua in that fight and therefore significantly decrease Tua's chance to keep up a hard pace throughout the night.

There's no doubt Frazier would've been in better shape between the two. He had a legendary work ethic, Tua was notoriously lazy and undertrained even for some of his biggest fights.

[polecateddy]

Just in relation to Foreman's amazing power. Can you explain how comeback Foreman could put Alex Stewart away. Toiled away in distance fights with chinny types like Morrison, Grimley and Saverase? Those are the type of opponents Tua could destroy spectacularly.

[gilgamesh]

Just in relation to Foreman's amazing power. Can you explain how comeback Foreman could put Alex Stewart away. Toiled away in distance fights with chinny types like Morrison, Grimley and Saverase? Those are the type of opponents Tua could destroy spectacularly.

Yep I sure can, you ready?

He was in his 40's.

David Tua would've flat out lost to all 4 fighters you mentioned once he hit 40. Probably even in his late 30's.

[polecateddy]

Yeah, but most good pundits suggest that comeback Foreman was actually the better 12 round fighter than 'robotic' 70's version.

[gilgamesh]

Yeah, but most good pundits suggest that comeback Foreman was actually the better 12 round fighter than 'robotic' 70's version.

He undoubtedly was as far as technical skill and patience were concerned, and yes he had better stamina (or pacing) to last the 12 round distance.

But he was much more physically strong, powerful and intimidating as a young man. I'm sure most of the pundits you mention would agree with that as well.

[Senya13]

So nobody wants to do me a favor and answer my question about young Foreman's most impressive one-punch KD's or KO's that are on film? Sure there must be enough footage to have something? Or is the best we have are his two-left-hooks KO of Gullick and the 1st Frazier KD from a right hook? Isn't that too little for a supposed one of the most powerful KO artists in heavyweight history?

[polecateddy]

So nobody wants to do me a favor and answer my question about young Foreman's most impressive one-punch KD's or KO's that are on film? Sure there must be enough footage to have something? Or is the best we have are his two-left-hooks KO of Gullick and the 1st Frazier KD from a right hook? Isn't that too little for a supposed one of the most powerful KO artists in heavyweight history?

He was a heavy-handed dude for sure. But really he flattered to decieve a little. Nobody suggests Ron Lyle was one of the best hitters ever, and yet in their fight they appeared evenly matched.

[Ezzard]

Tua is a real live underdog here. He doesn't have Frazier's pedigree. And he won't win a decision. But if they fought 10 times Tua would win at least once.

[Ezzard]

Probably/possibly only once.

[Senya13]

I agree that he was very heavy-handed. Anyway, I mentioned the Frazier KD on purpose. My point was, that was typical Frazier, a smallish (relatively), vigorous, aggressive swarmer with not very good defense. It played right into Foreman's hands, to provide his arguably most impressive showing as a puncher. He wasn't so impressive even against tomato cans, because they didn't just march forward, disregarding Foreman's power, and hoping to just smother him with a lot of not very sharp punches, which are unlikely to discourage or damage an opponent very quickly. Frazier usually needed to land plenty of them before they had physical and mental effect on an opponent. One clean Foreman's punch was probably equal in damage to five Frazier's clean punches. David Tua's punches were at least as heavy as Foreman's and they were quicker and sharper, and thus more paralyzing when they landed clean. So is Frazier going to play a patient fight vs. Tua all a sudden, and if he does, then how is he going to win, if his relentlessness is thrown out the window? Or does anybody think Tua's punch becomes less dangerous if the fight goes 10 or 15 rounds?

[Ezzard]

So nobody wants to do me a favor and answer my question about young Foreman's most impressive one-punch KD's or KO's that are on film? Sure there must be enough footage to have something? Or is the best we have are his two-left-hooks KO of Gullick and the 1st Frazier KD from a right hook? Isn't that too little for a supposed one of the most powerful KO artists in heavyweight history?

Very good points...

[fatcity69]

Tua was in a different league to Frazier, to even suggest he could beat Frazier is laughable. Have a look at Ali vs Frazier 1, 2 or 3 and then watch Tua vs Lewis (if you can stay awake) and you may have your answer. I'm a fan of Tua, an entertaining fighter, but Frazier did far better in his career against far better opposition, and was a far far better fighter than Tua ever was or could be.

[Senya13]

Who's comparing their greatness here? Nobody. So why spam the thread with such posts?

[polecateddy]

Who's comparing their greatness here? Nobody. So why spam the thread with such posts?

I agree, it has nothing to do with greatness or achievement. It's picturing Frazier barrelling into Tua and finding himself on the end of those monstrous Tua left hooks. Frazier can't defuse the guy boxing long range, so it's bound to be bombs away.

[elmersalsa]

Frazier for me. Tua never impressed me. The only thing good I got to say about Tua was great chin and punching power. Anything else in his arsenal was below average.