BoxRec

SNG wrote:

G0mez wrote:I don't see why Billy Nelson has to be dragged across the coals.

It's not like he is a judge.

I thought Billy did really well. Telling Ricky to pack in the smiling , this is your livelihood on the line.

Him squeezing that last round out of Burns saved his ass.

Yes he lost, but they could have quit and instead continued to play their hand and it paid off.

Good post. This thread is pathetic.

Whatever you think of the result you have to remember that Nelson and Burns are not the judges.

X 2

mrpedigree wrote:People saying Beltran only one by a point really shouldn't be watching the sport anymore ,all ricky did was run and wrestle/tie up for 8 of the 12 rounds.
Beltran pressed the action 8 of the 12 rounds , he bullied Burns from pillar to post, beat him up on the ropes,had him wobbled,knocked him down and broke his Jaw, yet fools wanna tell me Beltran only won by a round so didn't deserve it ? GTFOH with that B0LL0X , Beltran did everything in that fight.
I say again, ent it strange that no punch stats was posted at the end of the fight by sky ?

"You don't agree with my world view so I'm gonna insult you" - oh, grow up! Beltran did try the approach you describe, and sometimes succeeded, but he also took some rounds off, lost a couple early to Burns workrate and late to his jab and move technique. As such - scored on the existing 10 point must system - it was close, however much the naked eye had Beltran as the aggressor.

As for your question regarding the punch stats, not really, given that the Sky announcers were all saying that they thought Beltran had won it. Surely if a conspiracy existed, they'd have been covering up stats that disputed that thought.

Beltran won the fight.

I'm staggered how anyone with any semblance of intelligence or even eyesight can justify scoring that to Burns.

With the knockdown Beltran won that by at least 4 rounds.

He deserves a rematch without a British ref

I think a lot of officials are too keen to please the home promoter. It takes a great deal of integrity to choose the away fighter knowing that you may have read things wrong.

The sport stinks at times

Should rename himself ricky brave heart burns!

Keeps getting hurt now burns?
Has he's mojo run out??? Does he need to step up to his natural division where I think he will be less effective.
Burns has had a fantastic career & is inspirational to many British pro's. all his fights now carry real drama & more reason for fans to tune in

hurlock wrote:Should rename himself ricky brave heart burns!

Keeps getting hurt now burns?
Has he's mojo run out??? Does he need to step up to his natural division where I think he will be less effective.
Burns has had a fantastic career & is inspirational to many British pro's. all his fights now carry real drama & more reason for fans to tune in

It does seem like the wheels are starting to come off,maybe he should count himself lucky he ,s still a champ and cash his chips in and move up to Light Welterweight

I still find it strange that in UK and Germany in particular that the shocking judging seems to more often than not come from judges outside the country,(although Richie Davies draw was still pretty bad) but Carlos Ortiz Jr is a Yank and his score was disgraceful

Emmseegee wrote:As a Burns fan I can admit he lost but sadly (for Beltran) close rounds go to the home fighter on these kind of shows. We have seen these kind of fights so many times before, Burns scraped a few rounds whereas the rounds Beltran won were won convincingly which stick in the memory and make the decision look ridiculous. As I said, I believe Burns lost but some of the stick he's getting is shocking.
Horse is correct, its one dodgy decision and people are making it out as if Burns has been gifted every fight. If you agree to fighting away then you know you are up against it straight away. Thats just the way it is, ask Martin Murray or other British fighters who have suffered from the same injustice.

As for Burns, he needs work on some upper body movement in my opinion. He needs to start dipping, ducking and diving whilst covering up instead of just standing upright and stationary behind his guard. He is lucky to be blessed with extremely long forearms which give him a good shield but standing stationary inviting punshment from a big puncher like that is insane.

What do you mean if you agree?! Beltran had no other choice! He wouldnt get a shot otherwise.

handsofstone wrote: It does seem like the wheels are starting to come off,maybe he should count himself lucky he ,s still a champ and cash his chips in and move up to Light Welterweight

I still find it strange that in UK and Germany in particular that the shocking judging seems to more often than not come from judges outside the country,(although Richie Davies draw was still pretty bad) but Carlos Ortiz Jr is a Yank and his score was disgraceful

Credit to the Scottish supporters - the American ref probably got caught up in the swirling atmosphere and it coloured some of the closer rounds.

We often look for a scientific reason, but the reality is he could have sat at the wrong angle during the decisive exchanges in Beltran's favour.

G0mez wrote:

handsofstone wrote: It does seem like the wheels are starting to come off,maybe he should count himself lucky he ,s still a champ and cash his chips in and move up to Light Welterweight

I still find it strange that in UK and Germany in particular that the shocking judging seems to more often than not come from judges outside the country,(although Richie Davies draw was still pretty bad) but Carlos Ortiz Jr is a Yank and his score was disgraceful

Credit to the Scottish supporters - the American ref probably got caught up in the swirling atmosphere and it coloured some of the closer rounds.

We often look for a scientific reason, but the reality is he could have sat at the wrong angle during the decisive exchanges in Beltran's favour.

Too often people look for reasons and claim all sorts of things, judges are human, they have off days and can get caught up in the crowd like everyone else.

When I compared Burns to Sven Ottke in another thread last night, I had in mind the extraordinary efforts taken by Team Burns to not take a fight with Broner, coupled with Eddie Hearn's outright "no chance" dismissal of a return bout with the previous challenger, plus Beltran getting ripped off. For me, Ottke's legacy represents much that is wrong with boxing, he was a home town champ who never fought fellow world title holders, never fought outside his home country, relied on judges to save the day many times, and dug up some right corpses for voluntary defences. I've been a boxing fan for 25 years and that sort of world title holder puts me off the sport.

I'm not saying Burns is that bad or does all those things but the accumulation of the Broner dodging, and the last two fights, give me the impression that Team Burns is made up of desperados just clinging to the gravy train of him being world champ. I look forward to seeing what will happen with (a) the Beltran rematch and (b) the mandatory challenger Terrance Crawford. Crawford looks like a top, top fighter in the making. I can see this genuine injury for Burns being a blessing in disguise - his team may decide to vacate the title and avoid Crawford, to keep Burns unbeaten and keep that gravy train going at a higher weight division when he's fit and ready.

JimJim2009 wrote:When I compared Burns to Sven Ottke in another thread last night, I had in mind the extraordinary efforts taken by Team Burns to not take a fight with Broner, coupled with Eddie Hearn's outright "no chance" dismissal of a return bout with the previous challenger, plus Beltran getting ripped off. For me, Ottke's legacy represents much that is wrong with boxing, he was a home town champ who never fought fellow world title holders, never fought outside his home country, relied on judges to save the day many times, and dug up some right corpses for voluntary defences. I've been a boxing fan for 25 years and that sort of world title holder puts me off the sport.

I'm not saying Burns is that bad or does all those things but the accumulation of the Broner dodging, and the last two fights, give me the impression that Team Burns is made up of desperados just clinging to the gravy train of him being world champ. I look forward to seeing what will happen with (a) the Beltran rematch and (b) the mandatory challenger Terrance Crawford. Crawford looks like a top, top fighter in the making. I can see this genuine injury for Burns being a blessing in disguise - his team may decide to vacate the title and avoid Crawford, to keep Burns unbeaten and keep that gravy train going at a higher weight division when he's fit and ready.

They turned down the Broner fight once, at 6 weeks notice, after a 10 week training camp. To ask a fighter to step into a unification fight with 4 or 5 weeks to train, away from home isn't going to happen.

Gonzalez has no right to a rematch, he quit, end of.

Burns has had one lucky decision.

The poor defences were at super featherweight, which may have been down to the money needed to get Martinez over, they'd have struggled to make a profit with 2,500 in the Kelvin Hall, so the easy defences allowed Warren to recoup the losses on the Martinez show.

expe wrote:

JimJim2009 wrote:When I compared Burns to Sven Ottke in another thread last night, I had in mind the extraordinary efforts taken by Team Burns to not take a fight with Broner, coupled with Eddie Hearn's outright "no chance" dismissal of a return bout with the previous challenger, plus Beltran getting ripped off. For me, Ottke's legacy represents much that is wrong with boxing, he was a home town champ who never fought fellow world title holders, never fought outside his home country, relied on judges to save the day many times, and dug up some right corpses for voluntary defences. I've been a boxing fan for 25 years and that sort of world title holder puts me off the sport.

I'm not saying Burns is that bad or does all those things but the accumulation of the Broner dodging, and the last two fights, give me the impression that Team Burns is made up of desperados just clinging to the gravy train of him being world champ. I look forward to seeing what will happen with (a) the Beltran rematch and (b) the mandatory challenger Terrance Crawford. Crawford looks like a top, top fighter in the making. I can see this genuine injury for Burns being a blessing in disguise - his team may decide to vacate the title and avoid Crawford, to keep Burns unbeaten and keep that gravy train going at a higher weight division when he's fit and ready.

They turned down the Broner fight once, at 6 weeks notice, after a 10 week training camp. To ask a fighter to step into a unification fight with 4 or 5 weeks to train, away from home isn't going to happen.

Gonzalez has no right to a rematch, he quit, end of.

Burns has had one lucky decision.

The poor defences were at super featherweight, which may have been down to the money needed to get Martinez over, they'd have struggled to make a profit with 2,500 in the Kelvin Hall, so the easy defences allowed Warren to recoup the losses on the Martinez show.

x2

expe wrote:

JimJim2009 wrote:When I compared Burns to Sven Ottke in another thread last night, I had in mind the extraordinary efforts taken by Team Burns to not take a fight with Broner, coupled with Eddie Hearn's outright "no chance" dismissal of a return bout with the previous challenger, plus Beltran getting ripped off. For me, Ottke's legacy represents much that is wrong with boxing, he was a home town champ who never fought fellow world title holders, never fought outside his home country, relied on judges to save the day many times, and dug up some right corpses for voluntary defences. I've been a boxing fan for 25 years and that sort of world title holder puts me off the sport.

I'm not saying Burns is that bad or does all those things but the accumulation of the Broner dodging, and the last two fights, give me the impression that Team Burns is made up of desperados just clinging to the gravy train of him being world champ. I look forward to seeing what will happen with (a) the Beltran rematch and (b) the mandatory challenger Terrance Crawford. Crawford looks like a top, top fighter in the making. I can see this genuine injury for Burns being a blessing in disguise - his team may decide to vacate the title and avoid Crawford, to keep Burns unbeaten and keep that gravy train going at a higher weight division when he's fit and ready.

They turned down the Broner fight once, at 6 weeks notice, after a 10 week training camp. To ask a fighter to step into a unification fight with 4 or 5 weeks to train, away from home isn't going to happen.

Gonzalez has no right to a rematch, he quit, end of.

Burns has had one lucky decision.

The poor defences were at super featherweight, which may have been down to the money needed to get Martinez over, they'd have struggled to make a profit with 2,500 in the Kelvin Hall, so the easy defences allowed Warren to recoup the losses on the Martinez show.

You conveniently forgot to mention the 1st time Burns dodged Broner when he was made mandatory at 130. He was able to make weight to fight the likes of layela and that other guy but as soon as Broner was made mandatory they vacated. Anyone who things Burns/Burns team haven't dodged Broner is simply wrong. Team Burns knows Broner would take Burns apart and want nothing to do this him.

rio wrote:

expe wrote:

JimJim2009 wrote:When I compared Burns to Sven Ottke in another thread last night, I had in mind the extraordinary efforts taken by Team Burns to not take a fight with Broner, coupled with Eddie Hearn's outright "no chance" dismissal of a return bout with the previous challenger, plus Beltran getting ripped off. For me, Ottke's legacy represents much that is wrong with boxing, he was a home town champ who never fought fellow world title holders, never fought outside his home country, relied on judges to save the day many times, and dug up some right corpses for voluntary defences. I've been a boxing fan for 25 years and that sort of world title holder puts me off the sport.

I'm not saying Burns is that bad or does all those things but the accumulation of the Broner dodging, and the last two fights, give me the impression that Team Burns is made up of desperados just clinging to the gravy train of him being world champ. I look forward to seeing what will happen with (a) the Beltran rematch and (b) the mandatory challenger Terrance Crawford. Crawford looks like a top, top fighter in the making. I can see this genuine injury for Burns being a blessing in disguise - his team may decide to vacate the title and avoid Crawford, to keep Burns unbeaten and keep that gravy train going at a higher weight division when he's fit and ready.

They turned down the Broner fight once, at 6 weeks notice, after a 10 week training camp. To ask a fighter to step into a unification fight with 4 or 5 weeks to train, away from home isn't going to happen.

Gonzalez has no right to a rematch, he quit, end of.

Burns has had one lucky decision.

The poor defences were at super featherweight, which may have been down to the money needed to get Martinez over, they'd have struggled to make a profit with 2,500 in the Kelvin Hall, so the easy defences allowed Warren to recoup the losses on the Martinez show.

You conveniently forgot to mention the 1st time Burns dodged Broner when he was made mandatory at 130. He was able to make weight to fight the likes of layela and that other guy but as soon as Broner was made mandatory they vacated. Anyone who things Burns/Burns team haven't dodged Broner is simply wrong. Team Burns knows Broner would take Burns apart and want nothing to do this him.

You expect a man, 5ft 10ins tall, to keep making 9st 4lbs, fight after fight, there was talk of moving up months before and he went up and fought Katsidis, who was just as good as Broner at the time. The fight was never offered to them and you don't make your point very well with Layela(Laryea) and "that other guy", I take it you mean Cook or Evensen.

JimJim2009 wrote:When I compared Burns to Sven Ottke in another thread last night, I had in mind the extraordinary efforts taken by Team Burns to not take a fight with Broner, coupled with Eddie Hearn's outright "no chance" dismissal of a return bout with the previous challenger, plus Beltran getting ripped off. For me, Ottke's legacy represents much that is wrong with boxing, he was a home town champ who never fought fellow world title holders, never fought outside his home country, relied on judges to save the day many times, and dug up some right corpses for voluntary defences. I've been a boxing fan for 25 years and that sort of world title holder puts me off the sport.

Sounds like Roy Jones

Was it really a terrible decision?

I had it 6-5-1 in rounds to Beltran plus the KD. That hardly makes a draw a robbery.

Ever been to Old Trafford? Or Anfield? Or Elland Road? Or Highbury?

Tom Ford wrote:Beltran won the fight.

The record will state it was a draw, your opinion means feck all as you are a nobody.

Realistic wrote:

Tom Ford wrote:Beltran won the fight.

The record will state it was a draw, MY OPINIION means feck all as I AM A NOBODY

#Fixed.
#Agree.

Boxing is a buisness more then a sport it loses fans faster then it gains them & alot of that Scottish support are supporting ricky not boxing most shows in Scotland struggle change that to all.
The man will get his rematch & there will be alot more intrest.

Expe, if I ever do something really naughty and end up in court, I hope you're on the jury as you seem to be willing to excuse anything !

In your opinion, that last challenger doesn't deserve a rematch. Personally I'd love to see it. Yet I also realise it will never, ever happen. He was from the "who needs him club" and brought nothing to the table so he's banished to the back of beyond. If he was a Matthew Hatton style brawler who could bring 10,000 fans to an arena they'd have fought again.

In the old days a world title fight sought to establish who the world's best fighter at that weight was. These days, with the proliferation of titles, all they tend to establish is, who the better man in the ring that night was. In the case of Burns' last defence (before last night, I mean), that was emphatically proven - the challenger was the better man, and Eddie Hearn said flat out "no chance" when a rematch was mentioned.

You say he doesn't deserve a rematch, yet he was battering Burns before withdrawing with a claimed injury. Burns outlasted him on the night but I would love to see that one again. Alas, he can't get past Beltran properly, he was decked and busted up, hopefully he will do the right thing and give him a rematch. I can see him vacating the title before fighting Crawford, as he did at lightweight when Broner was the mandatory.

Ezzard wrote:

JimJim2009 wrote:When I compared Burns to Sven Ottke in another thread last night, I had in mind the extraordinary efforts taken by Team Burns to not take a fight with Broner, coupled with Eddie Hearn's outright "no chance" dismissal of a return bout with the previous challenger, plus Beltran getting ripped off. For me, Ottke's legacy represents much that is wrong with boxing, he was a home town champ who never fought fellow world title holders, never fought outside his home country, relied on judges to save the day many times, and dug up some right corpses for voluntary defences. I've been a boxing fan for 25 years and that sort of world title holder puts me off the sport.

Sounds like Roy Jones

I feel I'm biting on a wind up here but if you're comparing Ottke to Jones I am flabberghasted !

Burns comes across as a nice fella but plenty people want to see him fail due to the garbage and abusive replies that's spouted by Nelson on this forum when anybody dares to question Ricky's ability.

JimJim2009 wrote:Expe, if I ever do something really naughty and end up in court, I hope you're on the jury as you seem to be willing to excuse anything !

In your opinion, that last challenger doesn't deserve a rematch. Personally I'd love to see it. Yet I also realise it will never, ever happen. He was from the "who needs him club" and brought nothing to the table so he's banished to the back of beyond. If he was a Matthew Hatton style brawler who could bring 10,000 fans to an arena they'd have fought again.

In the old days a world title fight sought to establish who the world's best fighter at that weight was. These days, with the proliferation of titles, all they tend to establish is, who the better man in the ring that night was. In the case of Burns' last defence (before last night, I mean), that was emphatically proven - the challenger was the better man, and Eddie Hearn said flat out "no chance" when a rematch was mentioned.

You say he doesn't deserve a rematch, yet he was battering Burns before withdrawing with a claimed injury. Burns outlasted him on the night but I would love to see that one again. Alas, he can't get past Beltran properly, he was decked and busted up, hopefully he will do the right thing and give him a rematch. I can see him vacating the title before fighting Crawford, as he did at lightweight when Broner was the mandatory.

My Dad was on a jury, the guy was up for burglary, after all the evidence was given, a unanimous decision was needed for a conviction, the vote was 11-1, my Dad being the 1. They then brought out his previous record, dozens of convictions for robbery, shoplifting and burglary. The vote was swiftly changed.

Gonzalez chose to quit, the corner wanted him to go on. He refused treatment from the BBBofC doctor and Billy Nelson saw the hand an hour after the fight and said there was no swelling, Gonzalez didn't go to hospital, like you would if you had a broken wrist. It's a 12 round fight, the better man won on the night, maybe the better boxer didn't but that's down to Gonzalez and Burns' will to win.