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Kilburn wrote:I think Roy Jones Jr is the best ever.

I would say the most athletically gifted eva

stevieb_8006 wrote:

Kilburn wrote:I think Roy Jones Jr is the best ever.

I would say the most athletically gifted eva

Maybe so. I certainly wouldn't hesitate in picking a prime Jones Jr over Golovkin, Ward and Kovalev.

Kilburn wrote:I think Roy Jones Jr is the best ever.

the trouble with jones was that he has been ko'd a few times now and who's to say while he was at his peak he wasn't a bit chinny !

stevedoc wrote:

Kilburn wrote:I think Roy Jones Jr is the best ever.

the trouble with jones was that he has been ko'd a few times now and who's to say while he was at his peak he wasn't a bit chinny !

Jones Jr definitely had his chin tested at least once in the 50 fights prior to his steep decline,

Kilburn wrote:

stevedoc wrote:

Kilburn wrote:I think Roy Jones Jr is the best ever.

the trouble with jones was that he has been ko'd a few times now and who's to say while he was at his peak he wasn't a bit chinny !

Jones Jr definitely had his chin tested at least once in the 50 fights prior to his steep decline,

i just mean to be the best fighter that ever lived a very solid chin is a must , and to be fair i can't think of a time that a super middle weight jones ever got caught flush by a big shot .

Love floyd, but avoidance of pacman and a prime cotto will always haunt his quest for being the number 1.
But he is up there. The tragedy is he would likely of beat these guys if he had taken the fights or MADE them happen.

this late career surge is definitely getting him towards the top table. Any accusations of cherry-picking now are just emotional hate, at age 36 the first 2 fights of his showtime deal he's took on 2 of the strongest challenges out there and barely lost a round in sweeping both of them aside.

Tom Ford wrote:17 years at the top and undefeated.

Floyd is up there.

17 years!

Top 40 I think but a long way off Leonard hearns and duran p4p.

In honesty is Alvarez at 154 anything more than a younger less cut prone less hyper vinnie paz?

He is great an atg but the razor close win over de la hoya and his being smashed by a prehistoric inactive mosley tell the truth.he is king of a weak era. I think a peak Whittaker,Trinidad,hearns,and even curry beat him

mugabi wrote:

Tom Ford wrote:17 years at the top and undefeated.

Floyd is up there.

17 years!

Top 40 I think but a long way off Leonard hearns and duran p4p.

In honesty is Alvarez at 154 anything more than a younger less cut prone less hyper vinnie paz?

He is great an atg but the razor close win over de la hoya and his being smashed by a prehistoric inactive mosley tell the truth.he is king of a weak era. I think a peak Whittaker,Trinidad,hearns,and even curry beat him

wow canelo is in a different league to vinny paz weather that's the light weight or the juiced up super middle weight

no way a peak Trinidad beats a peak Floyd, just cant see that at all

Nope, Tito couldn't beat Floyd IMO.

He may not be at the very top table of all timers yet, but his story isn't finished either. 4 fights left, and the first 2 have been very dangerous guys right in their prime. If he finishes his deal in a similar fashion, you'd have to say he's right up there when you add those fights onto an already amazing career.

Smashed by Mosley? You mean he got hit? In a fight? Jeez, maybe he is a fraud after all. He got hit in a boxing match! I can't believe it!!

dbflex wrote:Here's a good rationale to apply when considering a fighter's historical value:

How many top 10 pound-for-pound fighters did they beat when the opponents were in their prime?

Canelo
Castillo
Hatton (arguably)
Corrales (arguably)

Hatton arguably? But canelo in there. I'd say Hatton at time was comfortably P4P but Canelo is just on the edge. JMM/Oscar/Mosely were all p4p top 5 at the time Floyd beat them

jackukmma wrote:

dbflex wrote:Here's a good rationale to apply when considering a fighter's historical value:

How many top 10 pound-for-pound fighters did they beat when the opponents were in their prime?

Canelo
Castillo
Hatton (arguably)
Corrales (arguably)

Hatton arguably? But canelo in there. I'd say Hatton at time was comfortably P4P but Canelo is just on the edge. JMM/Oscar/Mosely were all p4p top 5 at the time Floyd beat them

Moseley wasn't. And u can hardly count JMM at that weight. Not knocking floyds achievements tho.

stevieb_8006 wrote:

jackukmma wrote:

dbflex wrote:Here's a good rationale to apply when considering a fighter's historical value:

How many top 10 pound-for-pound fighters did they beat when the opponents were in their prime?

Canelo
Castillo
Hatton (arguably)
Corrales (arguably)

Hatton arguably? But canelo in there. I'd say Hatton at time was comfortably P4P but Canelo is just on the edge. JMM/Oscar/Mosely were all p4p top 5 at the time Floyd beat them

Moseley wasn't. And u can hardly count JMM at that weight. Not knocking floyds achievements tho.

Oscar was not p4p top five when they fought either.

Old bones Ian wrote:

hurlock wrote:Best defensive fighter ever.

Who else is there pep, Benitez,Whittaker I'd say floyds the best

Pep. Bennie Leonard , Pernell Whittaker. I'd say those 3 off the top of my head were better defensively

Jack Johnson was an amazing defensive fighter.

Kilburn wrote:I think Roy Jones Jr is the best ever.

x2

In his prime he could do everything better than Floyd AND he was faster.
Did Floyd ever beat a Toney or Hopkins level guy?
Could Floyd beat a belt holder 75 pounds north of the weight he turned pro at?
Robinson couldnt even win the LH title.

OR like Leonard beat a Hearns or Hagler?

loaded_gloves wrote:You have to be totally, completely ignorant to the rich history of boxing to consider Floyd Mayweather its best ever fighter.

Totally, completely ignorant.

I said 'He is up there' Just wanted to know if others think along the same lines.

curtis wood wrote:no way a peak Trinidad beats a peak Floyd, just cant see that at all

Agree, Tito is too basic.

It's a difficult debate but one point can't be denied, he's 100% in the all time great list.

Admire all his work and the length of time he's been at the top but I've grown to find his fights a total bore, give me Garcia vs Mattheysee any day of the week.

Mensa07 wrote:Smashed by Mosley? You mean he got hit? In a fight? Jeez, maybe he is a fraud after all. He got hit in a boxing match! I can't believe it!!

loaded_gloves wrote:You have to be totally, completely ignorant to the rich history of boxing to consider Floyd Mayweather its best ever fighter.

Totally, completely ignorant.

You talking about yourself again?

[quote="stevedoc]

stevedoc wrote:

Kilburn wrote:I think Roy Jones Jr is the best ever.

the trouble with jones was that he has been ko'd a few times now and who's to say while he was at his peak he wasn't a bit chinny !

Jones Jr definitely had his chin tested at least once in the 50 fights prior to his steep decline,[/quote]

i just mean to be the best fighter that ever lived a very solid chin is a must , and to be fair i can't think of a time that a super middle weight jones ever got caught flush by a big shot .[/quote]
He was hit flush at HW.

Case closed.

He may not have fought Pacman or a prime Cotto but can anyone make a case for him losing either of these fights?

Whilst he may not have had as many big wins over fellow p4p stars, I can't see anyone in or around his weight beating him. The weights he is fighting at now are far above what he could boil down to, he is having to go that high just to try and give the public a fight where there is the possibility he could be beat.

With all sports, fans tend to think competitors of previous eras are the best (Maradona/Pele v Messi/Ronaldo etc.), I think it is hard to see any previous fighter around the LW, LWW or WW weight classes beating Floyd.

Wow is this boxrec or some daft forum for boxing newbies?

Absolutely mental that anyone is even considering this- you need to educate yourself if you truly believe he's the best based on his very name heavy résume and performances against good but hardly any great opposition.

He's picked and chosen his way to 45-0. Yes there are some brilliant wins in there Manfreddy, Genaro Hernandez, Corrales, Castillo, Hatton but other then that its all a little bit smoke and Mirrors. Great names sure but a long way removed from their primes. Even the lower tier guys like Judah and Shamba Mitchell had ran into moderate form before he decided to take them on.

He downright ducked an unbeaten Cotto, Paul Williams, Margarito, Tszyu, Freitas, prime Mosley and of course Pacquiao. For the record I think he'd have beaten them but not without hiccup. It's ok that now - at this advanced stage in his career that he is suddenly saying 'you choose and I'll fight anybody'. But the divisions around him are laden with mediocre (world class) fighters. It's like Man Utd saying they'll play anybody once Arsenal, Chelsea and City have retired from the league.

Personally to me records mean very little these days. It's easy to pick and choose your way to virtually any record you like if your talented. He's got a fabulous system of fighting. It's very clever and means he has an answer for almost anything his opponent does, but you've got to remember who he is fighting. These aren't Durans, Benitez's or Hearns' they are a series of mostly good not great fighters. I always try and imagine the fighters your comparing the subject with and how they would have got on in the same matches.

Are we in any doubt that Leonard, Duran and co would have barely lost a round on route to 45-0 against the same men.

He is a great but for me he sits somewhere around the same place as the earlier mentioned Felix Trinidad. Probably above Don Curry head to head and certainly legacy wise. Before you come back and say oh well it's different eras ask yourself this. Would he have beaten Winky Wright who was a tremendous fighter not generally considered an ATG? I have my doubts.