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Re: All-Time Title Fight, Every Possible Division
Posted: 27 Sep 2013, 13:03
by SaadOffTheDeck
SamWise72 wrote:SaadOffTheDeck wrote:SamWise72 wrote:My list, which will undoubtedly have holes in it, and will stop short of the lightest weights due to lack of knowledge.
Superheavy (if we're doing that) Lewis v V Klitschko
Heavy - Ali vs Holmes
Cruiser - Marciano vs Holyfield
Light Heavy - Moore vs Charles
Super Middle - Calzaghe vs Jones
Middle - Monzon vs Greb
Light middle - Hearns vs McCallum
Welter - SRL vs SRR
Light welter - Armstrong vs Whittaker
Light - Armstrong vs Duran
That's about as far as I can got without being REALLY sure I'm missing some important fighters. Not only would I love to see every one of those fights, I also think they're close to matching the best fighters every to contest those weights.
Marciano a top 2 Cruiserweight when he never even fought there?
And if Holyfield is a 'natural' Cruiserweight than so is Ali.
Ali only weighed under the old cruiser limit for one of his fights, and only under the new one for the first few. Marciano at his heaviest was 1/2 pound over the old limit, never over the new one. Holy needed roids and weight training to be a heavyweight.
I realise that Marciano never fought at cruiser, but if the division had existed, he may well have. I couldn't in all conscience put him in the heavyweight final, but if he had been a cruiserweight, I think he'd have been top two.
Ahhh, so the rules only apply to others lists? Understood, get back to criticizing! You bitched about Toney and come with a guy that never competed there.
Re: All-Time Title Fight, Every Possible Division
Posted: 27 Sep 2013, 13:37
by SamWise72
Fair enough, you got me bang to rights. I tried to go for the two best fighters within that weight limit, that's all. I don't believe Toney was close.
Re: All-Time Title Fight, Every Possible Division
Posted: 27 Sep 2013, 14:43
by SaadOffTheDeck
Toney was definitely a better Cruiserweight than Marciano.
Re: All-Time Title Fight, Every Possible Division
Posted: 27 Sep 2013, 18:27
by SamWise72
Fair point in terms of divisions contested, but Marciano weighed in at cruiserweight in every fight, and beat heavyweights in most of those fights. Toney was all good cruiser, but he wasn't in the top 2 in a division that's had Haye, Qawi and Holy. He isn't on form or record, and the cruiser Toney wouldn't fare well against any of those in their cruiser prime. Marciano, however, would give every one of them a hell of a fight, certainly would beat the Haye that Mormeck dropped, and would be fascnating to watch against the others. If you'd prefer, Holy/Qawi was the all time title fight.
Re: All-Time Title Fight, Every Possible Division
Posted: 27 Sep 2013, 18:48
by gilgamesh
SamWise72 wrote:Fair point in terms of divisions contested, but Marciano weighed in at cruiserweight in every fight, and beat heavyweights in most of those fights. Toney was all good cruiser, but he wasn't in the top 2 in a division that's had Haye, Qawi and Holy. He isn't on form or record, and the cruiser Toney wouldn't fare well against any of those in their cruiser prime. Marciano, however, would give every one of them a hell of a fight, certainly would beat the Haye that Mormeck dropped, and would be fascnating to watch against the others. If you'd prefer, Holy/Qawi was the all time title fight.
I think Toney would beat David Haye at Cruiserweight. I agree he wouldn't beat Holy and Qawi though.
Re: All-Time Title Fight, Every Possible Division
Posted: 27 Sep 2013, 18:58
by SamWise72
I'm not certain enough to contest that :)
Re: All-Time Title Fight, Every Possible Division
Posted: 27 Sep 2013, 19:02
by gilgamesh
SamWise72 wrote:I'm not certain enough to contest that :)
I base this on a few factors. David Haye's money punch is his overhand right a punch that's very hard to land cleanly on Toney, David's chin is nowhere near as good as Toney's, and his defense is also nowhere near as good.
I also don't think he has the calmness or stamina to be able to outlast Toney. Toney would counterpunch David all night long and stop him late in my view.
Re: All-Time Title Fight, Every Possible Division
Posted: 27 Sep 2013, 19:46
by SaadOffTheDeck
SamWise72 wrote:Fair point in terms of divisions contested, but Marciano weighed in at cruiserweight in every fight, and beat heavyweights in most of those fights. Toney was all good cruiser, but he wasn't in the top 2 in a division that's had Haye, Qawi and Holy. He isn't on form or record, and the cruiser Toney wouldn't fare well against any of those in their cruiser prime. Marciano, however, would give every one of them a hell of a fight, certainly would beat the Haye that Mormeck dropped, and would be fascnating to watch against the others. If you'd prefer, Holy/Qawi was the all time title fight.
I'm just making a point that if you're going to nitpick others lists and come with a guy who never competed in the weight class it comes off as hypocritical. Your list is yours, I don't put guys in divisions they didn't fight in, even if it would have been a fit. Then you're getting into stuff like maybe 30 years later Marciano was born 6'2, lifted weights, did roids and was 230 lbs.
I wouldn't rate Toney in the top 2 in the division, but the guy that ripped up Jirov is my pick to give Evander the toughest fight of the lot.
Re: All-Time Title Fight, Every Possible Division
Posted: 27 Sep 2013, 19:52
by SaadOffTheDeck
And Qawi was a much better Light Heavyweight. He and Vander was definitely the greatest Cruiserweight fight, but it's pushing it to call Qawi a definitive #2 in a pretty weak division historically. Huck has done as much, so did Deleon.
Re: All-Time Title Fight, Every Possible Division
Posted: 28 Sep 2013, 19:03
by SamWise72
All fair comments