BoxRec

danconnollyeire wrote:

dbflex wrote:Andre Ward would be perfect actually.

Yep. I think Ward or BHop could have the right amount of awkwardness to beat him

x2

hurlock wrote:

dbflex wrote:Andre Ward would be perfect actually.

Ward all day long!!!

I think Adonis has great speed & has to be fought at long & short range mid range is suicide v this mans hands. His left hand is a great danger & against cloud he was leading off with it & abit happy with it IMO. I don't think Adonis is a great thinking fighter I think he just looks good in what he does & relies on good advice from the corner.
I think a fighter needs to be up on the boards of his feet against Adonis giving him no time to plant his feet a double jab is vital & to circle off away from his left his right hand is low he flicks up the jab but his right hook to the head is non existent he only widely ploughs it in the body & this is we're you counter him then step in close pull him around wrestle thrustrate & weaken him that's what b-hop would do all night until he folds. Ward would stick the blanket on him smothering him & outclassing him.
Bellew seems a little flat footed to me & he's never really drills in the jab like he should. I will be supporting tony & stranger things have happened this Stevenson has the hype flowing over with the excitement surrounding him.9

The key to beating someone like Stevenson is thinking outside the box a little bit - circle to the right not the left, put Adonis onto his heals, he along with other sharp southpaws (paq / martinez) are so adept at throwing the left hand across themselves that they allow themselves to be walked around to their left, thus in theory negating their main asset (left hand) what they don't want you to know is that's what they want you to do, that is what opponents have been told to do EVERY fight and they love it! If you watch the fight again you'll see cloud move to he's left try to jab he's way in and fall short, Adonis's fast feet take him out of range, happens again & again so cloud tries to cut across from the left and bang, walks right onto the sharp hard left hand thrown slightly across he's own (stevensons) body! Much better to circle to the right and double jab your way in, Adonis doesn't seem to have a fearsome right hook which is the natural shot to throw against an opp coming in from that side, Adonis has a low right so you also take the jab off him by coming in from that side too!!

Allright frank are your brother to the legendary centurion jonny??


To be frank,frank I've been lucky in life to listen to some great old timers views & instructions & as much as things move on in sport I think boxing as only evolved on physicall & a nutritional level the skills & smarts have been left behind & the greatest fighters of our generation have that old school boxing in check. You've got b-hop with that old time Philly fighter cagey ness.
Mayweather has learnt from his father who knows what it takes,.james toney a throwback fighter as he calls himself.
Point I'm trying to make is the basics when applied properly never fail.
I.E you box a southpaw you keep your left foot outside he's right you chop the jab over his shoulder you get your measure & distance with it & can lead with straight rights down the pipe & left hook off them or step in close the distance tye them up thrustrate them for a change.its 90% psychological with southpaws & some fighters just treat them as bogey men & resighn to the fact they are going to give them head aches.
Bellew should study Hopkins tapes he deals with southpaws how should & Barrera he showed what to stick to v hamed not that Adonis is awkward

ward would beat him imo but i think froch would lose a wide margin decision,he is too tricky for froch and would pick him off

hurlock wrote:Allright frank are your brother to the legendary centurion jonny??


To be frank,frank I've been lucky in life to listen to some great old timers views & instructions & as much as things move on in sport I think boxing as only evolved on physicall & a nutritional level the skills & smarts have been left behind & the greatest fighters of our generation have that old school boxing in check. You've got b-hop with that old time Philly fighter cagey ness.
Mayweather has learnt from his father who knows what it takes,.james toney a throwback fighter as he calls himself.
Point I'm trying to make is the basics when applied properly never fail.
I.E you box a southpaw you keep your left foot outside he's right you chop the jab over his shoulder you get your measure & distance with it & can lead with straight rights down the pipe & left hook off them or step in close the distance tye them up thrustrate them for a change.its 90% psychological with southpaws & some fighters just treat them as bogey men & resighn to the fact they are going to give them head aches.
Bellew should study Hopkins tapes he deals with southpaws how should & Barrera he showed what to stick to v hamed not that Adonis is awkward

I'm not saying that you are wrong mate, but you have to change things up a bit too, use a bit of both, Cloud tried to go left and couldn't close the range quick enough, so then tried to cut across from left to right and got walloped by Adonis's left hand! Of course the default tactic is go left, front foot outside, but if that's not working you need plan b, c & d!! Cloud clearly didn't have plan b let alone c & d!

I am a firm believer in the basics, good balance, high hands, jab etc etc, but if the guy in front of you is slightly better than you the basics do not win you a fight & you have to adapt, but you do it from that sound technical base.

^^ nice. I've always thought the one-size-fits-all approach to boxing southpaws was a bit unrealistic

Counter-puncher wrote:^^ nice. I've always thought the one-size-fits-all approach to boxing southpaws was a bit unrealistic

Cheers! It is unrealistic! Every fighter has different attributes, strengths & weaknesses, being adaptable is vital, either that or be very good at making your opponent do what YOU want him to do (Mayweather, Pac, Martinez, Wlad)

People who say everything should come of the jab are they unrealistic.
World title level people's coaches shouldn't be seeing the opponent as better. Bellew is going there to win not survive.

frankgreaves wrote:

Counter-puncher wrote:^^ nice. I've always thought the one-size-fits-all approach to boxing southpaws was a bit unrealistic

Cheers! It is unrealistic! Every fighter has different attributes, strengths & weaknesses, being adaptable is vital, either that or be very good at making your opponent do what YOU want him to do (Mayweather, Pac, Martinez, Wlad)

one example, right-handed southpaws aren't nearly as bothered about getting their own lead foot outside their opponents' lead foot, as they're looking to land the right hook

hurlock wrote:People who say everything should come of the jab are they unrealistic.
World title level people's coaches shouldn't be seeing the opponent as better. Bellew is going there to win not survive.

Yes!! There is of course a place for lead hooks, lead back hands etc, but that is my point, versatility, adaptability, mix it up!! As a general rule you want to try and gauge your own strengths & weaknesses against your opponents, then, if needs be adapt & devise a plan to expose those weaknesses whilst hopefully protecting your own!! Any trainer that says 'don't worry about him, let him worry about you' is, IMHO, an idiot!!

hurlock wrote:Allright frank are your brother to the legendary centurion jonny??


To be frank,frank I've been lucky in life to listen to some great old timers views & instructions & as much as things move on in sport I think boxing as only evolved on physicall & a nutritional level the skills & smarts have been left behind & the greatest fighters of our generation have that old school boxing in check. You've got b-hop with that old time Philly fighter cagey ness.
Mayweather has learnt from his father who knows what it takes,.james toney a throwback fighter as he calls himself.
Point I'm trying to make is the basics when applied properly never fail.
I.E you box a southpaw you keep your left foot outside he's right you chop the jab over his shoulder you get your measure & distance with it & can lead with straight rights down the pipe & left hook off them or step in close the distance tye them up thrustrate them for a change.its 90% psychological with southpaws & some fighters just treat them as bogey men & resighn to the fact they are going to give them head aches.
Bellew should study Hopkins tapes he deals with southpaws how should & Barrera he showed what to stick to v hamed not that Adonis is awkward

Tony Bellew is good at what he does and has a good jab, strong right hand and left hook - he also comes with the legs for a 12 round fight, he is game and has good recuperative powers. He'll not turn into a master boxer - he has been boxing about 12 years and had |(and has) good trainers. Hopkins and Barerra are very rare talents and boxing greats and make what they do look easy. It is plain that Adonis is not unbeatable - he's been stopped before; he does look a real handful though and has plenty of confidence - he is willing to take a chance to land his shots and hits hard on the attack and the counter. Bellew comes across as a naturally confident man and is not going to talk down his chances - world title chances are rare as hens teeth; best of luck to him but he's up against it and Adonis doesn't look the type to be intimidated by words or antics. Bellew really has looked to hit very hard from time to time and his best option may be to meet fire with fire, getting on the back foot won't impress the judges and Stevenson hits up and down, Tony could get bashed up by middle rounds.

Any tactics employed by bellew could get scrambled any second by Adonis's power. I'd love to see bellew have a war get dropped & get all over Adonis like a l.heavy version of Chico corralles tv companies would love it & him.
When fighters or trainers study tapes it's to learn off & see how to do things the best way.
Certain things like speed,power,durability can't be taught .technique,timing,footwork