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Re: Who is the greatest light - middleweight ever
Posted: 05 Oct 2013, 04:18
by mickey1975
MightyWarrior wrote:Mike would be a slight favourite over Tommy in a punch out, as he had the better chin, other wise Tommy would likely out box him.
Mike could really take a good shot, just have a look at when he gets hit by maybe the hardest 154 puncher going, Julian Jackson. It's one of the best two rounders you'll see: the then unknown bomber Jackson ambushes him the 1st, nearly flooring him - but the body snatcher re groups and takes out Jackson in the next round, Stunning stuff
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3kbKe9cvEBI
I had forgotten how good Mike was until I watched that. Im not one who looks at the past with rose tinted glasses but.... Wasn't boxing so much better then?
Re: Who is the greatest light - middleweight ever
Posted: 05 Oct 2013, 04:41
by BO Selecta
orbtastic wrote:I think a lot of people put Hearns as the ATG there for slightly sentimental reasons because he doesn't quite slot into any other ATG lists at any other weight.
McCallum was actually a better boxer than Hearns was, he was more naturally talented. If you watch fights of him around that time he could actually out-Kronk Tommy in terms of boxing in the Kronk style - Left hand low, bringing it across, the feints, the double/triple jabs, mixing to head/body etc. If you look at any interviews of Steward, he held Mike in high regard, despite looking on Tommy as a son he said that Mike could do things that Tommy was just incapable of doing.
I think his resume at 154 slightly tops Tommy's, despite that shellacking of Duran.
I think head to head during that period where they both held titles - I can make a case for either winning. McCallum's chin is a major asset here, too.
This post makes a lot of sense.
I do agree there is a lot of sentimentality around Tommy Hearns because he was a true ring warrior who never shirked a challenge & was a very exciting & explosive fighter, but unfortunately for Tommy, due to his weight hopping, he never cemented a legacy at one weight & was never the linear champion in any weight class.
I believe that Mike was a better light middle than Tommy & would have beaten him had they met.
Although Tommy could box brilliantly; Mike was also the consumate boxer with a chin & stamina that were far better than Tommy's.
I'd pick Mike to stop Tommy 3/4 of the way into a competitive 15 rounder.
Re: Who is the greatest light - middleweight ever
Posted: 06 Oct 2013, 19:58
by Bricks
orbtastic wrote:I think a lot of people put Hearns as the ATG there for slightly sentimental reasons because he doesn't quite slot into any other ATG lists at any other weight.
McCallum was actually a better boxer than Hearns was, he was more naturally talented. If you watch fights of him around that time he could actually out-Kronk Tommy in terms of boxing in the Kronk style - Left hand low, bringing it across, the feints, the double/triple jabs, mixing to head/body etc. If you look at any interviews of Steward, he held Mike in high regard, despite looking on Tommy as a son he said that Mike could do things that Tommy was just incapable of doing.
I think his resume at 154 slightly tops Tommy's, despite that shellacking of Duran.
I think head to head during that period where they both held titles - I can make a case for either winning. McCallum's chin is a major asset here, too.
Lol how the he'll was McCallum more naturally talented and a better boxer than hearns.hearns had God given blistering hand speed and pulverising power ,exceptional flexibility to fire those shots to the body and that long reach and tall frame.
McCollum is an all time great but he had a incredible boxing brain forged thru experience not talent.curry was posting a shutout till mike saw a weakness.Mike showed in more or less splitting fights with masters like toney and kalam bay he was a great
Re: Who is the greatest light - middleweight ever
Posted: 06 Oct 2013, 20:33
by hurlock
All due respect Mugabi hearns was way ahead v Leonard before getting took out also.
I'd fancy hearns v mcallum down to the fact they had sparred alot & hearns would have the needed respect. But had they not sparred & mike an unknown quality I back him 50/50 fight hearns much more gifted tho
Re: Who is the greatest light - middleweight ever
Posted: 08 Oct 2013, 09:39
by orbtastic
mugabi wrote:orbtastic wrote:I think a lot of people put Hearns as the ATG there for slightly sentimental reasons because he doesn't quite slot into any other ATG lists at any other weight.
McCallum was actually a better boxer than Hearns was, he was more naturally talented. If you watch fights of him around that time he could actually out-Kronk Tommy in terms of boxing in the Kronk style - Left hand low, bringing it across, the feints, the double/triple jabs, mixing to head/body etc. If you look at any interviews of Steward, he held Mike in high regard, despite looking on Tommy as a son he said that Mike could do things that Tommy was just incapable of doing.
I think his resume at 154 slightly tops Tommy's, despite that shellacking of Duran.
I think head to head during that period where they both held titles - I can make a case for either winning. McCallum's chin is a major asset here, too.
Lol how the he'll was McCallum more naturally talented and a better boxer than hearns.hearns had God given blistering hand speed and pulverising power ,exceptional flexibility to fire those shots to the body and that long reach and tall frame.
McCollum is an all time great but he had a incredible boxing brain forged thru experience not talent.curry was posting a shutout till mike saw a weakness.Mike showed in more or less splitting fights with masters like toney and kalam bay he was a great
They are not my words, they are the words of Tommy and Mike's trainer. Google it if you don't believe me, the quotes are out there. They're even in Hughes' Hearns book from a couple of years ago.
Re: Who is the greatest light - middleweight ever
Posted: 08 Oct 2013, 09:53
by curtis wood
I think a prime winky wright gives anybody at 11st a hell of a argument
Re: Who is the greatest light - middleweight ever
Posted: 08 Oct 2013, 13:44
by Autobarn
orbtastic wrote:I think a lot of people put Hearns as the ATG there for slightly sentimental reasons because he doesn't quite slot into any other ATG lists at any other weight.
McCallum was actually a better boxer than Hearns was, he was more naturally talented. If you watch fights of him around that time he could actually out-Kronk Tommy in terms of boxing in the Kronk style - Left hand low, bringing it across, the feints, the double/triple jabs, mixing to head/body etc. If you look at any interviews of Steward, he held Mike in high regard, despite looking on Tommy as a son he said that Mike could do things that Tommy was just incapable of doing.
I think his resume at 154 slightly tops Tommy's, despite that shellacking of Duran.
I think head to head during that period where they both held titles - I can make a case for either winning. McCallum's chin is a major asset here, too.
I agree with your post.
also, I saw hearns panic vs mark medal after failing to finish him off early. that was down at 154. hearns battered him for a couple of sessions then utterly gassed, before picking things up later on - I believe winning on an injury.
hearns, for me, despite the reach and talent and power, was too flaky against a master boxer who gradually wears you down.
Re: Who is the greatest light - middleweight ever
Posted: 08 Oct 2013, 14:18
by palooka
It depends on whether it's a 12 round or 15 round bout; Milton McCrory was a very decent boxer and world champ and McCallum wore him down and overpowered him though it took him 10 rounds and Milton had his successes. Hearns was all round better than Milton and had far greater power but they boxed from the same sheet; if McCrory could get to the 10th then I would have imagined that Hearns would have done too - McCallum couldn't just do as he pleased with Milton and Tommy was very competitive, he would have made Mike pay for attacking him.
Re: Who is the greatest light - middleweight ever
Posted: 08 Oct 2013, 14:54
by hurlock
The best ain't even the 3 listed!!!
Richard "the secret" williams
Re: Who is the greatest light - middleweight ever
Posted: 08 Oct 2013, 16:35
by jamesmcdonnell
Sugar Ray Robinson - not his fault there wasn't a division around at the time - he'd have absolutely murdered everyone at 154 - he consistently gave away weight fighting naturally bigger men at 160, and still won far more than he lost.
Re: Who is the greatest light - middleweight ever
Posted: 08 Oct 2013, 17:11
by zero
black panther wrote:There was once a chap who was world champion at welterweight and middleweight. There was no lightmiddleweight in his day but he often came in much lower than the middleweight limit and gave away weight to his opponents. If there was a LMW limit when he was around I think he would have been untouchable: he was damn near untouchable in his prime anyway. His name was Walker Smith Jnr though I think he boxed under a different name.
Thank god someone said it.