BoxRec

columbo wrote:

hurlock wrote:When you look at mma Aden it's only ufc & was pride ?? Bought out right???

Look at the big picture of the sports compared. There are loads of mma bodies & they do rubbish compared to boxing promotions ufc is basically Vegas & that's the only organization that can challenge boxing but in the whole they fail misrably.

I thought from the success of say prize fighter that maybe somthing similar could of been produced in terms of a longer based tournament with people sighned up & a big pot at the end for winners & runners up.

Could 5 minute rounds work in boxing would it make it less nip & tuck & more open or would it be mass clinches?scoring would be fun ha!!

Boxing could do with more changes to make it safer & more exiting knowbody talks of the 15 rd days now unless to express how fit they feel after 12!

Ultimate Boxer Championship!!

The UFC fails miserably?! Where did you come up with that nonsense?

He doesn't mean that, mate. He means that other MMA promoters are considerably less suvvesful that the UFC. He's right in that.

Aden wrote:On the 'fighter's union' thing...

In my view fighters should get the following option "You can fight for this much money, when we tell you, where we tell you, against who we tell you, for how many scheduled rounds we tell you, at what weight we tell you, or you can go elsewhere; and if when you do fight you don't fight in such a way that our fans are satisfied, we'll have to let you go."

The above is pretty much what the UFC offer. If you play by their rules they'll look after you and you'll do alright, if you don't, they'll show you the door. The result? Regular, high quality, well-matched, exciting cards and fighters who do as their told.

So do you think what I proposed could work (in theory)?

College wrestling is big in America. Footballers are awesome athletes out there & normally have done some form of wrestling so the crossover bit ain't to bad. Boxing is a niche sport now.
I personally think mma is easier then boxing & more intresting with the training & different aspects & people are drawn to it. & the reason I say boxing is harder is because your limited to 2 hands & you can be humiliated you can't impose two many tactics in boxing its a two way street were in mma you can take the fight many places & be a jack of all

Aden wrote:

columbo wrote:

hurlock wrote:When you look at mma Aden it's only ufc & was pride ?? Bought out right???

Look at the big picture of the sports compared. There are loads of mma bodies & they do rubbish compared to boxing promotions ufc is basically Vegas & that's the only organization that can challenge boxing but in the whole they fail misrably.

I thought from the success of say prize fighter that maybe somthing similar could of been produced in terms of a longer based tournament with people sighned up & a big pot at the end for winners & runners up.

Could 5 minute rounds work in boxing would it make it less nip & tuck & more open or would it be mass clinches?scoring would be fun ha!!

Boxing could do with more changes to make it safer & more exiting knowbody talks of the 15 rd days now unless to express how fit they feel after 12!

Ultimate Boxer Championship!!

The UFC fails miserably?! Where did you come up with that nonsense?

He doesn't mean that, mate. He means that other MMA promoters are considerably less suvvesful that the UFC. He's right in that.

He also said that the UFC is basically Vegas. That's not true either though.

Jack B wrote:

Aden wrote:On the 'fighter's union' thing...

In my view fighters should get the following option "You can fight for this much money, when we tell you, where we tell you, against who we tell you, for how many scheduled rounds we tell you, at what weight we tell you, or you can go elsewhere; and if when you do fight you don't fight in such a way that our fans are satisfied, we'll have to let you go."

The above is pretty much what the UFC offer. If you play by their rules they'll look after you and you'll do alright, if you don't, they'll show you the door. The result? Regular, high quality, well-matched, exciting cards and fighters who do as their told.

So do you think what I proposed could work (in theory)?

No. That's my point. I think boxers should box and promoters should promote.

mcjarvo wrote:I am a true boxing fan I love it but hate the politics and the money ruining it. I have watched UFC it is entertaining but i like boxing a lot more. The fact that there was 4 world champions per divions but now moved to like 8 is with the stupid super champion, silver belts, diamond, interim all poo. I think the WBA should be scrap. UFC has one 1 world champion. so the best have to fight the best, i hate what boxing has become.

When will people understand that the Silver title is not a world title? Neither are interim champions. The silver title is more or less the equivalent of the intercontinental titles the other governing bodies have.

Boxing has never really had one world title. There was the European version, the British version, NYSAC, NBA and numerous other titles claiming to be 'world titles'.

Aden wrote:

Jack B wrote:

Aden wrote:On the 'fighter's union' thing...

In my view fighters should get the following option "You can fight for this much money, when we tell you, where we tell you, against who we tell you, for how many scheduled rounds we tell you, at what weight we tell you, or you can go elsewhere; and if when you do fight you don't fight in such a way that our fans are satisfied, we'll have to let you go."

The above is pretty much what the UFC offer. If you play by their rules they'll look after you and you'll do alright, if you don't, they'll show you the door. The result? Regular, high quality, well-matched, exciting cards and fighters who do as their told.

So do you think what I proposed could work (in theory)?

No. That's my point. I think boxers should box and promoters should promote.

OK - well we'll have to agree to disagree then.

The UFC model will never work in boxing. It's too far down the road for that - the market is already too established. UFC has done very well, but it has done so in a 'new' sport, where there was a huge gap in the market. They have exploited it wonderfully and the end result is clear. But, as I said, boxing is such an established sport with so many different promoters it would be virtually impossible to have one company take over.

Look at Golden Boy - they came in with a new model, the fighter-promoter, and signed a lot of guys and became a major player. But they are no way near dominant.

Aden wrote:

Jack B wrote:

Aden wrote:On the 'fighter's union' thing...

In my view fighters should get the following option "You can fight for this much money, when we tell you, where we tell you, against who we tell you, for how many scheduled rounds we tell you, at what weight we tell you, or you can go elsewhere; and if when you do fight you don't fight in such a way that our fans are satisfied, we'll have to let you go."

The above is pretty much what the UFC offer. If you play by their rules they'll look after you and you'll do alright, if you don't, they'll show you the door. The result? Regular, high quality, well-matched, exciting cards and fighters who do as their told.

So do you think what I proposed could work (in theory)?

No. That's my point. I think boxers should box and promoters should promote.

OK - well we'll have to agree to disagree then.

The UFC model will never work in boxing. It's too far down the road for that - the market is already too established. UFC has done very well, but it has done so in a 'new' sport, where there was a huge gap in the market. They have exploited it wonderfully and the end result is clear. But, as I said, boxing is such an established sport with so many different promoters it would be virtually impossible to have one company take over.

Look at Golden Boy - they came in with a new model, the fighter-promoter, and signed a lot of guys and became a major player. But they are no way near dominant.[/quote]

I dunno. In the states they really seem to be top dogs by a fair margin to me. You have top rank but they dont possess the same number of top fighters IMO and the ones they do are scattered in all different weight classes. Golden boy on the other hand seems to have a lot of guys in the same weight class and thus the best matches can be made.

Columbia do you want me to break it down for you or what???

Ufc is a great product & what's great about it is they have & attract the best!! Dana keeps it fresh by making sure his champion is Reilly tested & he never throws a guy on the scrap heap if he sees somebody lose a war he makes sure we see them again like Chris lidle.

Basically name other mma promotions, I bet you couldn't even name more in America you heard if spike tv???
Can you name more then two promotions in the uk let alone Europe???is there any that have got tv??

It's behind but is growing great

hurlock wrote:Columbia do you want me to break it down for you or what???

Ufc is a great product & what's great about it is they have & attract the best!! Dana keeps it fresh by making sure his champion is Reilly tested & he never throws a guy on the scrap heap if he sees somebody lose a war he makes sure we see them again like Chris lidle.

Basically name other mma promotions, I bet you couldn't even name more in America you heard if spike tv???
Can you name more then two promotions in the uk let alone Europe???is there any that have got tv??

It's behind but is growing great

Regarding naming others in America, well there's Bellator for a start. In the UK there's quite a few other promotions. Not huge names but that's because the UFC does a great job with marketing.

Have I missed the point here, but is the OP suggesting that a potential solution to the current situation of splintered titles, promotional stand-offs and televisual willy wanging, is to have a separate organisation set up as The One Single Boxing World Championship (apart from the ones that already exist)? How does this solve the problem rather than just exacerbate it? Unless the proposal is that some mindless, deep pocketed fool looks to buy out every major TV, promotional and managerial contract and then pay off Sulaiman and his counterparts to disband?

earsjohn wrote:Have I missed the point here, but is the OP suggesting that a potential solution to the current situation of splintered titles, promotional stand-offs and televisual willy wanging, is to have a separate organisation set up as The One Single Boxing World Championship (apart from the ones that already exist)? How does this solve the problem rather than just exacerbate it? Unless the proposal is that some mindless, deep pocketed fool looks to buy out every major TV, promotional and managerial contract and then pay off Sulaiman and his counterparts to disband?

That basically OR that they do such a good job of marketing their product that the others dont get seen as credible.

columbo wrote: I dunno. In the states they really seem to be top dogs by a fair margin to me. You have top rank but they dont possess the same number of top fighters IMO and the ones they do are scattered in all different weight classes. Golden boy on the other hand seems to have a lot of guys in the same weight class and thus the best matches can be made.

Seriously dude? Current TBRB P4P Top 10:

1. Mayweather Jr - Golden Boy (de facto)
2. Ward - Goossen
3. Marquez - Top Rank
4. Martinez - DiBella
5. Pacquiao - Top Rank
6. Froch - Matchroom
7. Klitschko - K2
8. Rigondeaux - Top Rank
9. Donaire - Top Rank
10. Garcia - Golden Boy

The Mayweather situation, at present, is a perfect example. He has nobody to fight, partly because he's too good, but partly because his (current) biggest rivals all fight for a company that refuses to do business with his promoter/TV network!

And it's not just Mayweather-Pacquiao. Mares-Donaire was a HUGE fight that didn't get done because of the same problems. Peter Quillin has zero chance of fighting Martinez or Golovkin. I could go on.

Promotional divisions are the main reason the biggest matches DON'T get made.

Jack B wrote:

columbo wrote: I dunno. In the states they really seem to be top dogs by a fair margin to me. You have top rank but they dont possess the same number of top fighters IMO and the ones they do are scattered in all different weight classes. Golden boy on the other hand seems to have a lot of guys in the same weight class and thus the best matches can be made.

Seriously dude? Current TBRB P4P Top 10:

1. Mayweather Jr - Golden Boy (de facto)
2. Ward - Goossen
3. Marquez - Top Rank
4. Martinez - DiBella
5. Pacquiao - Top Rank
6. Froch - Matchroom
7. Klitschko - K2
8. Rigondeaux - Top Rank
9. Donaire - Top Rank
10. Garcia - Golden Boy

The Mayweather situation, at present, is a perfect example. He has nobody to fight, partly because he's too good, but partly because his (current) biggest rivals all fight for a company that refuses to do business with his promoter/TV network!

And it's not just Mayweather-Pacquiao. Mares-Donaire was a HUGE fight that didn't get done because of the same problems. Peter Quillin has zero chance of fighting Martinez or Golovkin. I could go on.

Promotional divisions are the main reason the biggest matches DON'T get made.

You've listed 10 very good fighters there but they're not the only very good fighters in world boxing.

earsjohn wrote:Have I missed the point here...

Yes by a country mile. I either haven't explained myself very well or a lot of the responders don't understand how and what the UFC is and how it operates, or both.

Aden wrote:

earsjohn wrote:Have I missed the point here...

Yes by a country mile. I either haven't explained myself very well or a lot of the responders don't understand how and what the UFC is and how it operates, or both.

Could you make your point/question again please, because I got the impression you were asking if UFC, or essentially a 'new' promotional company in boxing, could come in and take over the sport?

columbo wrote:

Jack B wrote:

columbo wrote: I dunno. In the states they really seem to be top dogs by a fair margin to me. You have top rank but they dont possess the same number of top fighters IMO and the ones they do are scattered in all different weight classes. Golden boy on the other hand seems to have a lot of guys in the same weight class and thus the best matches can be made.

Seriously dude? Current TBRB P4P Top 10:

1. Mayweather Jr - Golden Boy (de facto)
2. Ward - Goossen
3. Marquez - Top Rank
4. Martinez - DiBella
5. Pacquiao - Top Rank
6. Froch - Matchroom
7. Klitschko - K2
8. Rigondeaux - Top Rank
9. Donaire - Top Rank
10. Garcia - Golden Boy

The Mayweather situation, at present, is a perfect example. He has nobody to fight, partly because he's too good, but partly because his (current) biggest rivals all fight for a company that refuses to do business with his promoter/TV network!

And it's not just Mayweather-Pacquiao. Mares-Donaire was a HUGE fight that didn't get done because of the same problems. Peter Quillin has zero chance of fighting Martinez or Golovkin. I could go on.

Promotional divisions are the main reason the biggest matches DON'T get made.

You've listed 10 very good fighters there but they're not the only very good fighters in world boxing.

Of course. But I was just making the point that boxers are distributed widely and it would be wrong to say that there is a top dog/dominant promoter who controls a big proportion of elite fighters, and can therefore make a lot of the top draw fights.

columbo wrote:

Jack B wrote:

columbo wrote: I dunno. In the states they really seem to be top dogs by a fair margin to me. You have top rank but they dont possess the same number of top fighters IMO and the ones they do are scattered in all different weight classes. Golden boy on the other hand seems to have a lot of guys in the same weight class and thus the best matches can be made.

Seriously dude? Current TBRB P4P Top 10:

1. Mayweather Jr - Golden Boy (de facto)
2. Ward - Goossen
3. Marquez - Top Rank
4. Martinez - DiBella
5. Pacquiao - Top Rank
6. Froch - Matchroom
7. Klitschko - K2
8. Rigondeaux - Top Rank
9. Donaire - Top Rank
10. Garcia - Golden Boy

The Mayweather situation, at present, is a perfect example. He has nobody to fight, partly because he's too good, but partly because his (current) biggest rivals all fight for a company that refuses to do business with his promoter/TV network!

And it's not just Mayweather-Pacquiao. Mares-Donaire was a HUGE fight that didn't get done because of the same problems. Peter Quillin has zero chance of fighting Martinez or Golovkin. I could go on.

Promotional divisions are the main reason the biggest matches DON'T get made.

You've listed 10 very good fighters there but they're not the only very good fighters in world boxing.

Of course. But I was just making the point that boxers are distributed widely and it would be wrong to say that there is a top dog/dominant promoter who controls a big proportion of elite fighters, and can therefore make a lot of the top draw fights.[/quote]

Look at the welterweight division for example though.... Mayweather 147/154, Ortiz, Guerrero, Khan, Alexander, Thurman, Broner, Malignaggi, Berto, Karass, etc. They have have a lot of fighters in specific weight classes of which they can make a lot of interesting matchups.

columbo wrote: Look at the welterweight division for example though.... Mayweather 147/154, Ortiz, Guerrero, Khan, Alexander, Thurman, Broner, Malignaggi, Berto, Karass, etc. They have have a lot of fighters in specific weight classes of which they can make a lot of interesting matchups.

Fair comment, agreed. Lots of top matches are made. But plenty aren't. Remember that period between 2007-9 when Top Rank/Golden Boy worked together? We had:

Pacquiao-Barrera II
Cotto-Mosley
Pacquiao-Marquez II
Hopkins-Pavlik
Pacquiao-De La Hoya
Mosley-Margarito
Pacquiao-Hatton

Lots of great fights that otherwise wouldn't have been made. And there's loads more that could be made if they sorted out their beef. It's a shame.

Jack B wrote:

columbo wrote: Look at the welterweight division for example though.... Mayweather 147/154, Ortiz, Guerrero, Khan, Alexander, Thurman, Broner, Malignaggi, Berto, Karass, etc. They have have a lot of fighters in specific weight classes of which they can make a lot of interesting matchups.

Fair comment, agreed. Lots of top matches are made. But plenty aren't. Remember that period between 2007-9 when Top Rank/Golden Boy worked together? We had:

Pacquiao-Barrera II
Cotto-Mosley
Pacquiao-Marquez II
Hopkins-Pavlik
Pacquiao-De La Hoya
Mosley-Margarito
Pacquiao-Hatton

Lots of great fights that otherwise wouldn't have been made. And there's loads more that could be made if they sorted out their beef. It's a shame.

That's because the old bastard Arum is still bitter that De La Hoya left him I think. Without meaning to sound horrible, there's probably a better chance of those guys working together again when he pops his clogs.

Jack B wrote:

Aden wrote:

earsjohn wrote:Have I missed the point here...

Yes by a country mile. I either haven't explained myself very well or a lot of the responders don't understand how and what the UFC is and how it operates, or both.

Could you make your point/question again please, because I got the impression you were asking if UFC, or essentially a 'new' promotional company in boxing, could come in and take over the sport?

What I am saying is that the UFC currently has TV deals in 145 countries, is aired in 19 languages, and is the largest live PPV event provider in the world. It is owned by two billionaires, the Abu Dhabi government, and one of the most charismatic promoters on the planet. If they decided they wanted to tack on a boxing arm to their existing business they could and they might.

Fighters signed to the UFC fight other fighters signed to the UFC. This stops a lot of messing about and enables the company to be able to assure their TV partners that they will put on high quality, well-matched shows that can be scheduled far in advance - even if the actual fighters on the card are not confirmed until closer to the date. TV companies like this because they a. know the event will happen (almost without exception) and b. They know it won't be loaded with Home fighter versus Bum because all the fighters are Home Fighters.

The UFC does not renew the contracts of fighters perceived as boring.

The chances of Fighter A ducking Fighter B for years on end is all but ruled out.

The UFC are great at >>promoting<< their talent and their product.

They have their own World Titles and because their product is so strong the belt holders are respected. There are still plenty of other MMA promotions with their own straps but they are generally deemed to be less prestigious.

If the UFC brought in to start with:

10 Heavyweights
10 Light Heavyweights
10 Middleweights
10 Welterweights
10 Lightweights
10 Featherweights
10 Bantamweights
10 Flyweights

...and Dana did his thing, I'm fairly confident they could become the dominant force in boxing, even if the guys they started out with were not the 10 best boxers in the world in each of those divisions.

Jack B wrote:

columbo wrote: Look at the welterweight division for example though.... Mayweather 147/154, Ortiz, Guerrero, Khan, Alexander, Thurman, Broner, Malignaggi, Berto, Karass, etc. They have have a lot of fighters in specific weight classes of which they can make a lot of interesting matchups.

Fair comment, agreed. Lots of top matches are made. But plenty aren't. Remember that period between 2007-9 when Top Rank/Golden Boy worked together? We had:

Pacquiao-Barrera II
Cotto-Mosley
Pacquiao-Marquez II
Hopkins-Pavlik
Pacquiao-De La Hoya
Mosley-Margarito
Pacquiao-Hatton

Lots of great fights that otherwise wouldn't have been made. And there's loads more that could be made if they sorted out their beef. It's a shame.

How did Golden Boy and Top Rank work together for Hatton-Pacquaio? Hatton was self promoted.

Ah ha. And how does the UFC approach of paying its fighters peanuts (relatively) reconcile with the requirement to ensure that Mayweather remains the highest earning athlete on the planet?

earsjohn wrote:Ah ha. And how does the UFC approach of paying its fighters peanuts (relatively) reconcile with the requirement to ensure that Mayweather remains the highest earning athlete on the planet?

Boxing still gets more eyes than MMA and would get more buys, more buys equals more money, what's your point?

expe wrote:

Jack B wrote:

columbo wrote: Look at the welterweight division for example though.... Mayweather 147/154, Ortiz, Guerrero, Khan, Alexander, Thurman, Broner, Malignaggi, Berto, Karass, etc. They have have a lot of fighters in specific weight classes of which they can make a lot of interesting matchups.

Fair comment, agreed. Lots of top matches are made. But plenty aren't. Remember that period between 2007-9 when Top Rank/Golden Boy worked together? We had:

Pacquiao-Barrera II
Cotto-Mosley
Pacquiao-Marquez II
Hopkins-Pavlik
Pacquiao-De La Hoya
Mosley-Margarito
Pacquiao-Hatton

Lots of great fights that otherwise wouldn't have been made. And there's loads more that could be made if they sorted out their beef. It's a shame.

How did Golden Boy and Top Rank work together for Hatton-Pacquaio? Hatton was self promoted.

Golden Boy were his US promoters. Go back and watch it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnspQ3p8Bk0