BoxRec

The best heavyweight of Lewis era was Tyson !!
Lewis turnt up to the party late after the battles were done struggling with bruno & mason & getting chinned by mcall.
As far as fighters go p4p I rate Holyfield higher then Lewis & Tyson for what he done at two weights & who he fought he didn't swerve knowbody! But rated at heavy Tyson is no1 Lewis/holy 2 & bowe on his given day could of been the daddy he was just not consistent & he fizzled out no longjevity

I have a big bone of contention with the way people come back and play with themselves over the rematch wins v McCall and Rahman.

Let's get something straight, these guys were fringe contenders who Lennox should have beaten first time around, and who never went on to win another heavyweight title bout, in an era of four champions.

It is no massive thing beating these guys. The truly great don't lose to men of these standards, no matter how much Lewis fanboys want to pretend they didn't really happen because Lewis 'wasn't prepared', and being prepared, last I checked was part of the make up of a truly great fighter

good point.


and yes I did put Calzaghe in there. Different physicalities will lend themselves to different styles of fighter, but for me I think a tip-top Joe was better than a tip-top Lennox.[/quote]


Maybe there is another thread where we can say if Calzaghe belongs in the same breath as Leonard, Mayweather and the rest.

I will agree with you tho when it comes to Joe ranking above Lewis. Their big wins match each other (old man tour) but Joe always turned up prepared, and didn't have to have have rematches against guys he should have beaten anyway

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

Ezzard wrote:If we could create a 240 pound 6 foot 5 inch James Jeffries then maybe he would beat Lennox. But that bloke never existed.

Lennox had size plus skill plus intelligence plus great KO power…that’s a formidable portfolio.

Many of the great heavies had size advantages. Just the way it is.

Is Lennox top 5? It’s a personal choice. It’s totally justifiable to have him in a top 5…or to not have in your top 5…harder to imagine him outside a top 10…and outside a top 15 seems impossible…but I’m always open to being proved wrong.

Jim Jeffries was what 6'2"-6'3" - and was a very powerful man, about 240 in his prime I believe, and a real specimen - with crushing power - he gets overlooked because he fought in a different era, but I remember that Nat Fleischer of the ring, had Jeffries as his all time greatest heavyweight.

217-218 at his peak, but with modern methods he could easily have bulked up to 230, and really 220 is plenty if it's natural size.

I'm not sure he was that tall.

Okay, checked boxrec and he is listed as 6' 0''. He never fought anyone bigger than himself. Though he was never meant to be more than an example.

Turns out this is a thread about P4P anyway so I totally balls'd it up...

I say no to a top 5 p4p... Robinson, Greb, Langford, Armstrong, Charles...

hurlock wrote:The best heavyweight of Lewis era was Tyson !!
Lewis turnt up to the party late after the battles were done struggling with bruno & mason & getting chinned by mcall.
As far as fighters go p4p I rate Holyfield higher then Lewis & Tyson for what he done at two weights & who he fought he didn't swerve knowbody! But rated at heavy Tyson is no1 Lewis/holy 2 & bowe on his given day could of been the daddy he was just not consistent & he fizzled out no longjevity

As spectacular as Tyson was I've always believed he was a tad overrated, most of his victims were terrified before a punch was thrown, I've never seen Evander Holyfield look intimidated by anyone and in my opinion Tyson would never have beaten Holyfield unless he nailed him to the floor.

P4P NO..too many boxers out do him for longevity record and opponents.
top 5 heavy hell yes

hurlock wrote:The best heavyweight of Lewis era was Tyson !!
Lewis turnt up to the party late after the battles were done struggling with bruno & mason & getting chinned by mcall.
As far as fighters go p4p I rate Holyfield higher then Lewis & Tyson for what he done at two weights & who he fought he didn't swerve knowbody! But rated at heavy Tyson is no1 Lewis/holy 2 & bowe on his given day could of been the daddy he was just not consistent & he fizzled out no longjevity

Who did Tyson beat to be ranked above guys like Lewis and Holyfield?

Was Lewis ever top 5 P4P in the Ring when he boxed? Think 7th was the highest I seen him.

Anyone who has Lennox in their all time P4P is deluded. Lewis' mother wouldn't even have him top 10.

There's a case for top 30 but even that would come under severe scrutiny.

I think anybody who says Tyson won because of intimidation & fear needs slapping. He did play on it after he was released from the can!
Tyson's speed of hand ,foot,head was crazy sick!! In his hey day he was an absolute phenom!

You get idiots on here playing down Roy jones jnr's talent!
Even b-hop remembers & praises how great jones was at his time

thepocketrocket wrote:

NorthEastBoxingFan wrote:

Deadendgeneration wrote:Top 5, probably not. But to not have him in your top 15 is laughable.

I just think that if I sat down for 5 or 10 minutes and thought about it, there'd be guys like Chavez, Nunn (I admit I never actually saw Nunn, just happen to be reading about him right now ), Leonard, Calzaghe, Mayweather,Joe Louis, Ali, Robinson.....it doesn't take that long to find your self hustled out of my top 15

Did I just see Calzaghe's name mentioned there within those names?

don't know why you picked that up when Michael Nunn's name was in there too..... top 15.....american middleweights of the 80s and 90s, sure.....

Ezzard wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

Ezzard wrote:If we could create a 240 pound 6 foot 5 inch James Jeffries then maybe he would beat Lennox. But that bloke never existed.

Lennox had size plus skill plus intelligence plus great KO power…that’s a formidable portfolio.

Many of the great heavies had size advantages. Just the way it is.

Is Lennox top 5? It’s a personal choice. It’s totally justifiable to have him in a top 5…or to not have in your top 5…harder to imagine him outside a top 10…and outside a top 15 seems impossible…but I’m always open to being proved wrong.

Jim Jeffries was what 6'2"-6'3" - and was a very powerful man, about 240 in his prime I believe, and a real specimen - with crushing power - he gets overlooked because he fought in a different era, but I remember that Nat Fleischer of the ring, had Jeffries as his all time greatest heavyweight.

217-218 at his peak, but with modern methods he could easily have bulked up to 230, and really 220 is plenty if it's natural size.

I'm not sure he was that tall.

Okay, checked boxrec and he is listed as 6' 0''. He never fought anyone bigger than himself. Though he was never meant to be more than an example.

Turns out this is a thread about P4P anyway so I totally balls'd it up...

I say no to a top 5 p4p... Robinson, Greb, Langford, Armstrong, Charles...

Really? I've seen him listed 6'2 and 6'3" lots of other places, think boxrec has that one wrong.

No way is Lennox top 5, 10, or even 20 all time, way too many guys before him, he's maybe top 50. Ali and Fitzsimmons are the only two you could argue are top 10.

Michael Nunn??!! Wow, really? No frigging way is he top 10 material.

thepocketrocket wrote:

danconnollyeire wrote:

NorthEastBoxingFan wrote:that's what I read in these pages over my coffee this morning. So, do you put Lewis in the top 5 ever, or not?

personally, I don't think you can include somebody at that level who gets KO'd twice and I also think sure Lewis was very good, but he often came in looking huge and a lot of his success was down to his sheer size. I wouldn't put him in my top 10 or even 15.

Frazier was KO'd twice by Foreman... Patterson's been stopped, Liston etc

He avenged both defeated, esp the Rahman in style. If you watch the Rahman II fight you realise how got he actual was in a pretty good era. He could punch body and head, hook and uppercut, move and scrap. A complete contrast to Wlads, staright shot and hold style. He's one of the greatest HW's that's for sure

Did you just compare Frazier being stopped by Foreman to Lewis being stopped by Hasim bloody Rahman??

Haha not quite, I'm just saying the fact he was KOd doesn't affect his legacy

i presume you mean heavyweight ... on skill i would say lennox is in the top 5 heavies ,i couldn't pick 5 fighters that would start a favourite over lewis i don't think any of the sub 200 pounds fighters like marciano,joe louis could beat lewis he's just to big then you're left with Ali,holmes ,tyson,foreman and i think you could make a case for lewis beating any of them .
obviously lennox was KO'd twice by average fighters so there is always a slight question make around lewis and where he rates in an all time list ,i can understand why some would rate in the top 3 or around about no 10

thepocketrocket wrote:I have a big bone of contention with the way people come back and play with themselves over the rematch wins v McCall and Rahman.

Let's get something straight, these guys were fringe contenders who Lennox should have beaten first time around, and who never went on to win another heavyweight title bout, in an era of four champions.

It is no massive thing beating these guys. The truly great don't lose to men of these standards, no matter how much Lewis fanboys want to pretend they didn't really happen because Lewis 'wasn't prepared', and being prepared, last I checked was part of the make up of a truly great fighter

Manny lost to Medgoen Singsurat, Wlad lost to Brewster, RJJ lost to Johnson, Apollo Creed lost to Balboa, upsets do happen

Frazier was bludgeoned!!!

Patterson was really a l.heavy with fast hands & most forget how powerfull his blows were.

Lewis got ko'd twice by single punches!! Rahman was picked to give him rounds!!

Lennox is second on my all time list, right behind Larry Holmes.

danconnollyeire wrote:

thepocketrocket wrote:I have a big bone of contention with the way people come back and play with themselves over the rematch wins v McCall and Rahman.

Let's get something straight, these guys were fringe contenders who Lennox should have beaten first time around, and who never went on to win another heavyweight title bout, in an era of four champions.

It is no massive thing beating these guys. The truly great don't lose to men of these standards, no matter how much Lewis fanboys want to pretend they didn't really happen because Lewis 'wasn't prepared', and being prepared, last I checked was part of the make up of a truly great fighter

Manny lost to Medgoen Singsurat, Wlad lost to Brewster, RJJ lost to Johnson, Apollo Creed lost to Balboa, upsets do happen

Upsets defo do happen, and that is why I am having him in my top ten, no doubt. I just doubt that the top boys (as in greatest ever) get done by these two. And if it was because Lennox didn't prepare, that has to be factored in. Don't ever think I am calling him a bum, or going daft...Lennox gets high marks from me

Though on the flipside, I do remember saying on an old forum that Rahman had a chance if Lewis didn't have his head on, as Rahman was better than Tua, but just got caught.

banjo wrote:

hurlock wrote:The best heavyweight of Lewis era was Tyson !!
Lewis turnt up to the party late after the battles were done struggling with bruno & mason & getting chinned by mcall.
As far as fighters go p4p I rate Holyfield higher then Lewis & Tyson for what he done at two weights & who he fought he didn't swerve knowbody! But rated at heavy Tyson is no1 Lewis/holy 2 & bowe on his given day could of been the daddy he was just not consistent & he fizzled out no longjevity

As spectacular as Tyson was I've always believed he was a tad overrated, most of his victims were terrified before a punch was thrown, I've never seen Evander Holyfield look intimidated by anyone and in my opinion Tyson would never have beaten Holyfield unless he nailed him to the floor.

I agree with both of these posts ^^^

I also think prime Holy Warrior is a better fighting machine/ boxer/ call it what u like than Mr Lewis, p4p. I just felt stupid saying it because, well, Lewis beat Holyfield in a fight .

I'm gonna dig out his fights with Douglas and Holyfield this weekend. The way people said Douglas was a massive upset I expected Douglas to be crap. This was before my time. I bought it on VHS in an Oxfam shop and I though Douglas fought brilliantly that night in Tokyo. He definitely weren't no bum. I'm sure he had some kid of personal story/ motivation going into the ring, like his mother had just died or something, though I'd have to check.

thepocketrocket wrote:

danconnollyeire wrote:

thepocketrocket wrote:I have a big bone of contention with the way people come back and play with themselves over the rematch wins v McCall and Rahman.

Let's get something straight, these guys were fringe contenders who Lennox should have beaten first time around, and who never went on to win another heavyweight title bout, in an era of four champions.

It is no massive thing beating these guys. The truly great don't lose to men of these standards, no matter how much Lewis fanboys want to pretend they didn't really happen because Lewis 'wasn't prepared', and being prepared, last I checked was part of the make up of a truly great fighter

Manny lost to Medgoen Singsurat, Wlad lost to Brewster, RJJ lost to Johnson, Apollo Creed lost to Balboa, upsets do happen

Upsets defo do happen, and that is why I am having him in my top ten, no doubt. I just doubt that the top boys (as in greatest ever) get done by these two. And if it was because Lennox didn't prepare, that has to be factored in. Don't ever think I am calling him a bum, or going daft...Lennox gets high marks from me

Oh yeah I agree, he's not in my top 10 ever but defo top 10 HW's

Jack Berg and Kid Chocolate....there's two names for ya right there.

NorthEastBoxingFan wrote:

banjo wrote:

hurlock wrote:The best heavyweight of Lewis era was Tyson !!
Lewis turnt up to the party late after the battles were done struggling with bruno & mason & getting chinned by mcall.
As far as fighters go p4p I rate Holyfield higher then Lewis & Tyson for what he done at two weights & who he fought he didn't swerve knowbody! But rated at heavy Tyson is no1 Lewis/holy 2 & bowe on his given day could of been the daddy he was just not consistent & he fizzled out no longjevity

As spectacular as Tyson was I've always believed he was a tad overrated, most of his victims were terrified before a punch was thrown, I've never seen Evander Holyfield look intimidated by anyone and in my opinion Tyson would never have beaten Holyfield unless he nailed him to the floor.

I agree with both of these posts ^^^

I also think prime Holy Warrior is a better fighting machine/ boxer/ call it what u like than Mr Lewis, p4p. I just felt stupid saying it because, well, Lewis beat Holyfield in a fight .

I'm gonna dig out his fights with Douglas and Holyfield this weekend. The way people said Douglas was a massive upset I expected Douglas to be crap. This was before my time. I bought it on VHS in an Oxfam shop and I though Douglas fought brilliantly that night in Tokyo. He definitely weren't no bum. I'm sure he had some kid of personal story/ motivation going into the ring, like his mother had just died or something, though I'd have to check.

It's subjective and boxing is so much about styles. Price is a recent example (and the only one I can think of at the mo), could probably beat a few people that are better than Thompson but Thompson's durability and awkward made him come unstuck (and Price's shite fitness/chin)

If they are better then Thompson they will allway's come on top of price!!
You saying you'd fancy price v pulev who has proven solid??
I'd say price has tools & ability but doing it is another thing

There aren't 5 heavies in history with a better resume than Lewis. No chance.

Clearly top 5, probably top 3.