BoxRec

Counter-puncher wrote:

DMA1987 wrote:
What about that interview warranted a thread about not coming across in the best light? .

it's just that Columbo's got that, ummm, scorned-woman type resentment towards Eddie. for reasons that are opaque to me.

I know it mate. That's the biggest issue to me, that I just don't get it.

DMA1987 wrote:

Counter-puncher wrote:

DMA1987 wrote:
What about that interview warranted a thread about not coming across in the best light? .

it's just that Columbo's got that, ummm, scorned-woman type resentment towards Eddie. for reasons that are opaque to me.

I know it mate. That's the biggest issue to me, that I just don't get it.

My issue is this mate.... When Eddie first came into the promotional mix he made a lot of bold statements like fans were sick of seeing mismatches and how he was going to make a lot more 50-50 fights and get boxing back to the glory days. Anyway, I dont think he's lived up to his promises. Now before anyone says something like he's good for the fighters, etc. I actually agree. I think he does treat the fighters well. However im looking at this from a boxing fans perspective and seeing the best fights. If I was a manager/ trainer or worked with fighters then my mentality would be different but im looking at it as a purely selfish boxing fan admittedly. The counter argument tends to be that he's no worse or that he's better than FW. Now I wouldnt really argue with that either, however with FW, he doesnt try to sell you the illusion that he's all about the sport and all about the fighters. You know it's about the money more than anything else really. With Eddie it seems to be more along the lines of him trying to sell you some brass and telling you it's the best gold you can get! I dont like that with people in life generally. It's not purely about Eddie. However this is about boxing hence why I bring up Eddie. Can you see what I mean now?

saw it was 27 mins long and closed it down. Who really has the time to watch him for that long?!

columbo wrote:

DMA1987 wrote:

Counter-puncher wrote:

it's just that Columbo's got that, ummm, scorned-woman type resentment towards Eddie. for reasons that are opaque to me.

I know it mate. That's the biggest issue to me, that I just don't get it.

My issue is this mate.... When Eddie first came into the promotional mix he made a lot of bold statements like fans were sick of seeing mismatches and how he was going to make a lot more 50-50 fights and get boxing back to the glory days. Anyway, I dont think he's lived up to his promises. Now before anyone says something like he's good for the fighters, etc. I actually agree. I think he does treat the fighters well. However im looking at this from a boxing fans perspective and seeing the best fights. If I was a manager/ trainer or worked with fighters then my mentality would be different but im looking at it as a purely selfish boxing fan admittedly. The counter argument tends to be that he's no worse or that he's better than FW. Now I wouldnt really argue with that either, however with FW, he doesnt try to sell you the illusion that he's all about the sport and all about the fighters. You know it's about the money more than anything else really. With Eddie it seems to be more along the lines of him trying to sell you some brass and telling you it's the best gold you can get! I dont like that with people in life generally. It's not purely about Eddie. However this is about boxing hence why I bring up Eddie. Can you see what I mean now?

I hear what you are saying, but not even a little bit of me agrees with it.

Number 1 - Is british boxing in a much better state now than it was before Eddie? I don't there is a way you can answer no. I haven't seen anything which leads me to believe he won't bring back the 'glory days'.

Number 2 - I am a boxing fan too. And as a boxing fan it made/makes me sick when a promoter takes advantage of a fighter to the extent where they don't even get paid. It is pretty widely known from opponents and matchroom fighters alike that Matchroom are at the very least the best in the UK at looking after fighters in terms of money and just generally looking after before a fight. You hear it time and time again. Now as a fan, that is music to my ears as it is important to me that the people who step in the ring and entertain us are looked after properly.

Number 3 - fornicate me will you stop this warren sh*t? 'Ah well we know he is a bit of a pudendum, but that's ok because he doesn't act differently'. Why does that matter? Hearn and Warren are night and day as people. Yes they are going to be linked as they both have a desire to make a profit. Please don't make the mistake of thinking that makes them the same person dressed up differently, they aren't. It puzzles me that Eddie is clearly all about his fighters and Warren isn't - but Eddie pisses you off and Warren doesn't. but its OK because Warren is open about being more interested in money than his boxers right?

Number 4 - There is never going to be a time where all promotions are full of 50/50 fights. However there are usually a good amount on the Hearn shows. Froch v Groves - look at the threads, people are split. Barker v Sturm - can you pick the winner? Barker v Geale. Rees against Crolla. Burns v Beltran, Burns v Gonzalez. Rose v Alcine. Rose v Maciel. Ochieng v Liam Smith. Froch v Kessler. And honestly, the list goes on and on. Those aren't even the best examples.

He has gotten Barker a world title, mandatories for Brook, Rose and Bellew. Has turned Froch into a worldwide name. Got Purdy a world and a European shot his talent could only dream about. Is looking to make the Murray v Macklin fight, neither are his fighters but he is the one with the power to make it happen and doesn't look to be shying away from it even though it enhances the reputations of his competitors fighters.

Listening to you, you'd think Hearn was bad for the sport. I honestly shudder to think the state it would be in if it was left to the others.

columbo wrote:

DMA1987 wrote:

Counter-puncher wrote:

it's just that Columbo's got that, ummm, scorned-woman type resentment towards Eddie. for reasons that are opaque to me.

I know it mate. That's the biggest issue to me, that I just don't get it.

My issue is this mate.... When Eddie first came into the promotional mix he made a lot of bold statements like fans were sick of seeing mismatches and how he was going to make a lot more 50-50 fights and get boxing back to the glory days. Anyway, I dont think he's lived up to his promises. Now before anyone says something like he's good for the fighters, etc. I actually agree. I think he does treat the fighters well. However im looking at this from a boxing fans perspective and seeing the best fights. If I was a manager/ trainer or worked with fighters then my mentality would be different but im looking at it as a purely selfish boxing fan admittedly. The counter argument tends to be that he's no worse or that he's better than FW. Now I wouldnt really argue with that either, however with FW, he doesnt try to sell you the illusion that he's all about the sport and all about the fighters. You know it's about the money more than anything else really. With Eddie it seems to be more along the lines of him trying to sell you some brass and telling you it's the best gold you can get! I dont like that with people in life generally. It's not purely about Eddie. However this is about boxing hence why I bring up Eddie. Can you see what I mean now?

I hear what you are saying, but not even a little bit of me agrees with it.

Number 1 - Is british boxing in a much better state now than it was before Eddie? I don't there is a way you can answer no. I haven't seen anything which leads me to believe he won't bring back the 'glory days'.

Number 2 - I am a boxing fan too. And as a boxing fan it made/makes me sick when a promoter takes advantage of a fighter to the extent where they don't even get paid. It is pretty widely known from opponents and matchroom fighters alike that Matchroom are at the very least the best in the UK at looking after fighters in terms of money and just generally looking after before a fight. You hear it time and time again. Now as a fan, that is music to my ears as it is important to me that the people who step in the ring and entertain us are looked after properly.

Number 3 - eff me will you stop this warren sh*t? 'Ah well we know he is a bit of a pudendum, but that's ok because he doesn't act differently'. Why does that matter? Hearn and Warren are night and day as people. Yes they are going to be linked as they both have a desire to make a profit. Please don't make the mistake of thinking that makes them the same person dressed up differently, they aren't. It puzzles me that Eddie is clearly all about his fighters and Warren isn't - but Eddie pisses you off and Warren doesn't. but its OK because Warren is open about being more interested in money than his boxers right?

Number 4 - There is never going to be a time where all promotions are full of 50/50 fights. However there are usually a good amount on the Hearn shows. Froch v Groves - look at the threads, people are split. Barker v Sturm - can you pick the winner? Barker v Geale. Rees against Crolla. Burns v Beltran, Burns v Gonzalez. Rose v Alcine. Rose v Maciel. Ochieng v Liam Smith. Froch v Kessler. And honestly, the list goes on and on. Those aren't even the best examples.

He has gotten Barker a world title, mandatories for Brook, Rose and Bellew. Has turned Froch into a worldwide name. Got Purdy a world and a European shot his talent could only dream about. Is looking to make the Murray v Macklin fight, neither are his fighters but he is the one with the power to make it happen and doesn't look to be shying away from it even though it enhances the reputations of his competitors fighters.

Listening to you, you'd think Hearn was bad for the sport. I honestly shudder to think the state it would be in if it was left to the others.[/quote]

I dont want this to taint our relationship

I am starting to think that Eddie is going to have the playing field all to himself in the next 12 months.
I'm probably wrong but I wonder if there are subtle indicators that BN is going to fold.

Ever more fighters jumping ship, no HD launch in sight, and throughout this year a series of overhyped press launches for things that never come to pass; the Fight Academy series has faded away, the link-up with the online betting company never materialised, the multi-promotional link up with Hatton/Khan/Maloney/McGuigan has yielded underwhelming results (putting it politely), the big promotions tend to fall apart (eg, "History Boys"), and the main man himself seems to be staging less British boxing shows now than at any time in the past. He doesn't have a single world champ anymore and its hard to see where his next one is going to come from.

I can only guess at the millions of pounds it must cost to run a TV station. For what its worth I have been a subscriber since day one and I hope it doesn't go under. When you see Salesman Eddie's i-film interviews, he certainly knows how to hit all the right notes, sending out the right signals to any boxer watching the interview. He keeps his stable busy, pays well and on time, and every single fighter has his career mapped out ahead of him.

Credit to fwank for consistently delivering big overseas main events like Pacquiao / Rios and Mayweather / Canelo, it must take serious money and hard work to get these shows. I hope he survives, I am not revelling in his potential demise, I just wonder if its coming sooner rather than later.

JimJim2009 wrote:I am starting to think that Eddie is going to have the playing field all to himself in the next 12 months.
I'm probably wrong but I wonder if there are subtle indicators that BN is going to fold.

Ever more fighters jumping ship, no HD launch in sight, and throughout this year a series of overhyped press launches for things that never come to pass; the Fight Academy series has faded away, the link-up with the online betting company never materialised, the multi-promotional link up with Hatton/Khan/Maloney/McGuigan has yielded underwhelming results (putting it politely), the big promotions tend to fall apart (eg, "History Boys"), and the main man himself seems to be staging less British boxing shows now than at any time in the past. He doesn't have a single world champ anymore and its hard to see where his next one is going to come from.

I can only guess at the millions of pounds it must cost to run a TV station. For what its worth I have been a subscriber since day one and I hope it doesn't go under. When you see Salesman Eddie's i-film interviews, he certainly knows how to hit all the right notes, sending out the right signals to any boxer watching the interview. He keeps his stable busy, pays well and on time, and every single fighter has his career mapped out ahead of him.

Credit to fwank for consistently delivering big overseas main events like Pacquiao / Rios and Mayweather / Canelo, it must take serious money and hard work to get these shows. I hope he survives, I am not revelling in his potential demise, I just wonder if its coming sooner rather than later.

None are world beaters, but in the last month, FW's signed Mathews, Satchell and Flannigan and in February has two shows lined up on the same night. He won't go anywhere, like it or not, the man's a survivor, he's been through worse than this and has come out the other side. FW won't be able to pick up any of the top amateurs since Hearn has a monopoly on them thanks to Froch and McCracken, so he'll just have to look elsewhere for fighters, bringing in a decent Polish fighter wouldn't do any harm, there's load of Polish in London so they'd sell and there's still the likes of Gavin and Saunders to come through. The key will be BT Sport, if they choose to go into boxing, Warren and allegedly are the obvious choice for them and would cause a bit of a power shift domestically.

JimJim2009 wrote:I am starting to think that Eddie is going to have the playing field all to himself in the next 12 months.
I'm probably wrong but I wonder if there are subtle indicators that BN is going to fold.

Ever more fighters jumping ship, no HD launch in sight, and throughout this year a series of overhyped press launches for things that never come to pass; the Fight Academy series has faded away, the link-up with the online betting company never materialised, the multi-promotional link up with Hatton/Khan/Maloney/McGuigan has yielded underwhelming results (putting it politely), the big promotions tend to fall apart (eg, "History Boys"), and the main man himself seems to be staging less British boxing shows now than at any time in the past. He doesn't have a single world champ anymore and its hard to see where his next one is going to come from.

I can only guess at the millions of pounds it must cost to run a TV station. For what its worth I have been a subscriber since day one and I hope it doesn't go under. When you see Salesman Eddie's i-film interviews, he certainly knows how to hit all the right notes, sending out the right signals to any boxer watching the interview. He keeps his stable busy, pays well and on time, and every single fighter has his career mapped out ahead of him.

Credit to fwank for consistently delivering big overseas main events like Pacquiao / Rios and Mayweather / Canelo, it must take serious money and hard work to get these shows. I hope he survives, I am not revelling in his potential demise, I just wonder if its coming sooner rather than later.

None are world beaters, but in the last month, FW's signed Mathews, Satchell and Flannigan and in February has two shows lined up on the same night. He won't go anywhere, like it or not, the man's a survivor, he's been through worse than this and has come out the other side. FW won't be able to pick up any of the top amateurs since Hearn has a monopoly on them thanks to Froch and McCracken, so he'll just have to look elsewhere for fighters, bringing in a decent Polish fighter wouldn't do any harm, there's load of Polish in London so they'd sell and there's still the likes of Gavin and Saunders to come through. The key will be BT Sport, if they choose to go into boxing, Warren and allegedly are the obvious choice for them and would cause a bit of a power shift domestically.

None are world beaters, but in the last month, FW's signed Mathews, Satchell and Flannigan and in February has two shows lined up on the same night. He won't go anywhere, like it or not, the man's a survivor, he's been through worse than this and has come out the other side. FW won't be able to pick up any of the top amateurs since Hearn has a monopoly on them thanks to Froch and McCracken, so he'll just have to look elsewhere for fighters, bringing in a decent Polish fighter wouldn't do any harm, there's load of Polish in London so they'd sell and there's still the likes of Gavin and Saunders to come through. The key will be BT Sport, if they choose to go into boxing, Warren and allegedly are the obvious choice for them and would cause a bit of a power shift domestically.[/quote]

Who he hasn't signed is more telling. He hasn't signed any olympians, four years ago he signed most of them. Mind you, maybe he has a long term plan on that - let Matchroom get Campbell and Joshua to 20-0, then temp them to greener pastures somehow.

I know what you mean about him being tenacious and so on, but that counts for rock all if the money runs out and you've no fighters left.

If he has two domestic shows scheduled for the same night in Feb, I will bet you a quid one of them falls through.

His fortunes as a boxing promoter (strictly as a promoter) are at a low ebb, and the money he has left after you subtract his TV channel costs from his subscription income (in effect, his "disposable income") must be being squeezed. He's run the TV channel for two years now, I imagine the costs are higher than they were in Sept 2011. That squeeze hurts his ability to put on shows. It looks like he puts on Copperbox shows and York hall shows these days, and with less frequency. I don't think he has a single fighter capable or with the potential of headlining a big arena, or any fighter with cross-over potential.

JimJim2009 wrote:None are world beaters, but in the last month, FW's signed Mathews, Satchell and Flannigan and in February has two shows lined up on the same night. He won't go anywhere, like it or not, the man's a survivor, he's been through worse than this and has come out the other side. FW won't be able to pick up any of the top amateurs since Hearn has a monopoly on them thanks to Froch and McCracken, so he'll just have to look elsewhere for fighters, bringing in a decent Polish fighter wouldn't do any harm, there's load of Polish in London so they'd sell and there's still the likes of Gavin and Saunders to come through. The key will be BT Sport, if they choose to go into boxing, Warren and allegedly are the obvious choice for them and would cause a bit of a power shift domestically.

Who he hasn't signed is more telling. He hasn't signed any olympians, four years ago he signed most of them. Mind you, maybe he has a long term plan on that - let Matchroom get Campbell and Joshua to 20-0, then temp them to greener pastures somehow.

I know what you mean about him being tenacious and so on, but that counts for rock all if the money runs out and you've no fighters left.

If he has two domestic shows scheduled for the same night in Feb, I will bet you a quid one of them falls through.

His fortunes as a boxing promoter (strictly as a promoter) are at a low ebb, and the money he has left after you subtract his TV channel costs from his subscription income (in effect, his "disposable income") must be being squeezed. He's run the TV channel for two years now, I imagine the costs are higher than they were in Sept 2011. That squeeze hurts his ability to put on shows. It looks like he puts on Copperbox shows and York hall shows these days, and with less frequency. I don't think he has a single fighter capable or with the potential of headlining a big arena, or any fighter with cross-over potential.[/quote]

There are some good points there Jim and plenty of food for thought; the fact remains though that Warren has been around the very top of British boxing promotion for many many years and has turned good money - the people that can extend credit are likely to trust him to be able to make a return, he's not down and out by any means and there are so many people reading tea leaves about how well the TV channel is doing - the vast majority of us on here are armchair fans and have no knowledge of how the business works and what is involved - I reckon Frank has enough put aside to retire altogether and enjoy himself every day for the next 25 years if he wanted - that he chooses to stick around and try different things does mean something. I wonder how much energy and passion for the 'sport' Eddie will show after 30 years at it.

bripez wrote:

expe wrote:We weren't asked to pay £15 to watch those, people rightly expect more from a PPV.

To be honest, I agree with Eddie in that I reckon 99% of the people who will pay the PPV will do so for the main fight only.

Ok, the undercard is a bonus, however very few will pay the fee to watch an undercard fight only and put match of the day on when the main event comes on (unless you are a mate of one of the fighters).

I agree with this. Most fans buying the card would usually just be waiting for main event. The fact the olympians are on will maybe make the casual fan watch a few more fights. Its a feel good card designed to bring more of the 'masses' into boxing.

Although more hardcore fans want the 50/50 fights Eddie is trying to build the sport and his fighters to a wider audience

There are some good points there Jim and plenty of food for thought; the fact remains though that Warren has been around the very top of British boxing promotion for many many years and has turned good money - the people that can extend credit are likely to trust him to be able to make a return, he's not down and out by any means and there are so many people reading tea leaves about how well the TV channel is doing - the vast majority of us on here are armchair fans and have no knowledge of how the business works and what is involved - I reckon Frank has enough put aside to retire altogether and enjoy himself every day for the next 25 years if he wanted - that he chooses to stick around and try different things does mean something. I wonder how much energy and passion for the 'sport' Eddie will show after 30 years at it.[/quote]

Thats all I am doing, reading the tea-leaves really. Like I said above I have been a subscriber since day one and its the best thing since sliced bread. It would be utterly fascinating to see the Matchroom empire crumble if Sky changed their policy, but Sky have shown boxing since day one and I can't see them losing interest. Us hardcore fans have a habit of splitting hairs, I think generally speaking if I was running Sky Sports I would say that since the other promoters got booted out and Eddie was given all the dates, the output has been as good as before, if not better, and I bet its a sight easier to run their boxing coverage program.

Eddie is only as powerful as his contract with Sky allows him to be. He is riding the crest of a wave on the back of a load of fighters that other promoters have developed. Nobody of note has left him, and most of his stable have crossed promotional camps due to what Eddie can offer. He is developing a lot of his own fighters rapidly though, which does point to him having longevity as a promoter.