BoxRec

daviddee wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

Finn wrote:Im sticking to my guns on this one and nothing has made me have even the slightest doubt that this fight will be anything other than a carbon copy of the bute fight.

I agree, I think Froch is going to come out hard like he did against Bute, and dismantle him.

If Froch comes out hard like he did Against Bute he will play right in Groves's hands. When will people realise Bute was very highly hyped and is nothing like Groves. If Froch tries to push forward he will get picked off and will be picking himself up from the canvass. Froch has got to try and box Groves and hope he can get to him late on. I think Groves will have a game plan and that will be enough to see him through. Although it is boxing and anything can happen

Froch actually drew the lead from Bute if you actually watch the fight. What he did do, is apply pressure and throw punches in bunches.

If Bute is overhyped, then what the hell is groves, his best win is over Glen Johnson, who was 43 years old, and had lost his last 3 fights, several years past his best, his next best win, over the inexperiened and overhyped DeGale, a fight he barely squeaked on the cards!! Bute may have been hyped, but he'd fought far better opposition than Groves has to date.

Bute found that Carl was nowhere near as easy to hit as he thought, nor were his own shots able to trouble Froch in the slightest. Bute was known as a mover and a puncher, just like Groves, he had 24 KO wins from 30 fights and was widely tipped to beat Froch, but he was never at the races. His own work was ineffective, and despite showing great durability, and absorbing some wicked shots from Froch, could never get into the fight.

Whatever Froch's deficiencies, the two men he's lost two are leagues ahead of Groves - one is an ATG in the making, and a top 5 by anyone's reckoning PFP fighter, and the other, is one of the toughest men in the division, and certainly far more proven than Groves.

When the going gets tough, a fighter has to draw on an inner resolve, and their experience to get them through, Bute, who was more experienced at a higher level, and despite the revisionist bullshit afterwards, brimming with confidence coming into the fight found he couldn't make a dent in Carl nor keep him honest - what on earth has groves experienced, or demonstrated so far, that makes you believe he can put Carl on his ass, and keep him from landing on him.

Of course it is possible that Groves will box to orders and execute a gameplan to win, however, in my experience of watching boxing over the years, that is only possible if a fighter has the tools for it, and it is very hard to box to orders under the heat of competition. Froch proved against Jermaine Taylor that he has an incredible win to will, and I personally think that since the losses to Ward and Kessler, he's become a far better fighter. He takes a few more chances, but also imposes his will a lot more.

I believe that Froch may have some sticky moments, but I think he will take over in the middle rounds and stop grove.

Cant see Froch losing this one,Groves movement can cause Froch problems but i think Froch will want it more when the going gets tough,Froch Late Stoppage

daviddee wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

Finn wrote:Im sticking to my guns on this one and nothing has made me have even the slightest doubt that this fight will be anything other than a carbon copy of the bute fight.

I agree, I think Froch is going to come out hard like he did against Bute, and dismantle him.

If Froch comes out hard like he did Against Bute he will play right in Groves's hands. When will people realise Bute was very highly hyped and is nothing like Groves. If Froch tries to push forward he will get picked off and will be picking himself up from the canvass. Froch has got to try and box Groves and hope he can get to him late on. I think Groves will have a game plan and that will be enough to see him through. Although it is boxing and anything can happen

Sorry mate but Bute beats Groves imo.

daviddee wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

Finn wrote:Im sticking to my guns on this one and nothing has made me have even the slightest doubt that this fight will be anything other than a carbon copy of the bute fight.

I agree, I think Froch is going to come out hard like he did against Bute, and dismantle him.

If Froch comes out hard like he did Against Bute he will play right in Groves's hands. When will people realise Bute was very highly hyped and is nothing like Groves. If Froch tries to push forward he will get picked off and will be picking himself up from the canvass. Froch has got to try and box Groves and hope he can get to him late on. I think Groves will have a game plan and that will be enough to see him through. Although it is boxing and anything can happen

Froch actually drew the lead from Bute if you actually watch the fight. What he did do, is apply pressure and throw punches in bunches.

If Bute is overhyped, then what the hell is groves, his best win is over Glen Johnson, who was 43 years old, and had lost his last 3 fights, several years past his best, his next best win, over the inexperiened and overhyped DeGale, a fight he barely squeaked on the cards!! Bute may have been hyped, but he'd fought far better opposition than Groves has to date.

Bute found that Carl was nowhere near as easy to hit as he thought, nor were his own shots able to trouble Froch in the slightest. Bute was known as a mover and a puncher, just like Groves, he had 24 KO wins from 30 fights and was widely tipped to beat Froch, but he was never at the races. His own work was ineffective, and despite showing great durability, and absorbing some wicked shots from Froch, could never get into the fight.

Whatever Froch's deficiencies, the two men he's lost two are leagues ahead of Groves - one is an ATG in the making, and a top 5 by anyone's reckoning PFP fighter, and the other, is one of the toughest men in the division, and certainly far more proven than Groves.

When the going gets tough, a fighter has to draw on an inner resolve, and their experience to get them through, Bute, who was more experienced at a higher level, and despite the revisionist bullshit afterwards, brimming with confidence coming into the fight found he couldn't make a dent in Carl nor keep him honest - what on earth has groves experienced, or demonstrated so far, that makes you believe he can put Carl on his ass, and keep him from landing on him.

Of course it is possible that Groves will box to orders and execute a gameplan to win, however, in my experience of watching boxing over the years, that is only possible if a fighter has the tools for it, and it is very hard to box to orders under the heat of competition. Froch proved against Jermaine Taylor that he has an incredible win to will, and I personally think that since the losses to Ward and Kessler, he's become a far better fighter. He takes a few more chances, but also imposes his will a lot more.

I believe that Froch may have some sticky moments, but I think he will take over in the middle rounds and stop grove.[/quote]

Your take on it is very similar to mine mate.

I think my comparison with Groves and Bute is on the money. The attributes they both possess are very similar except one's a southpaw obviously.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Froch actually drew the lead from Bute if you actually watch the fight. What he did do, is apply pressure and throw punches in bunches.

If Bute is overhyped, then what the hell is groves, his best win is over Glen Johnson, who was 43 years old, and had lost his last 3 fights, several years past his best, his next best win, over the inexperiened and overhyped DeGale, a fight he barely squeaked on the cards!! Bute may have been hyped, but he'd fought far better opposition than Groves has to date.

Bute found that Carl was nowhere near as easy to hit as he thought, nor were his own shots able to trouble Froch in the slightest. Bute was known as a mover and a puncher, just like Groves, he had 24 KO wins from 30 fights and was widely tipped to beat Froch, but he was never at the races. His own work was ineffective, and despite showing great durability, and absorbing some wicked shots from Froch, could never get into the fight.

Whatever Froch's deficiencies, the two men he's lost two are leagues ahead of Groves - one is an ATG in the making, and a top 5 by anyone's reckoning PFP fighter, and the other, is one of the toughest men in the division, and certainly far more proven than Groves.

When the going gets tough, a fighter has to draw on an inner resolve, and their experience to get them through, Bute, who was more experienced at a higher level, and despite the revisionist bullshit afterwards, brimming with confidence coming into the fight found he couldn't make a dent in Carl nor keep him honest - what on earth has groves experienced, or demonstrated so far, that makes you believe he can put Carl on his ass, and keep him from landing on him.

Of course it is possible that Groves will box to orders and execute a gameplan to win, however, in my experience of watching boxing over the years, that is only possible if a fighter has the tools for it, and it is very hard to box to orders under the heat of competition. Froch proved against Jermaine Taylor that he has an incredible win to will, and I personally think that since the losses to Ward and Kessler, he's become a far better fighter. He takes a few more chances, but also imposes his will a lot more.

I believe that Froch may have some sticky moments, but I think he will take over in the middle rounds and stop grove.

Great post James. Agree 100% with everything you've stated here.

Groove Armada wrote:I think Groves head movement and fast powerful punches will shock Carl.

Yes, because Carl having been in with Ward, Bute, Taylor, Kessler etc will definitely not prepare him for this in the slightest so he's bound to be shocked by this whole new level of opponent.
Fortunately, by contrast GG has faced a range of world-class fighters to prepare him for Froch's strength, combination punching, ringcraft and experience.

Deserter wrote:

Groove Armada wrote:I think Groves head movement and fast powerful punches will shock Carl.

Yes, because Carl having been in with Ward, Bute, Taylor, Kessler etc will definitely not prepare him for this in the slightest so he's bound to be shocked by this whole new level of opponent.
Fortunately, by contrast GG has faced a range of world-class fighters to prepare him for Froch's strength, combination punching, ringcraft and experience.

Deserter, i'm not sure about you but I still think Froch get's underrated as a boxer somewhat. Don't get me wrong, he's not the slickest boxer you're ever going to see by any stretch but he works well behind his long jab and I dont think he's as easy to land on as some seem to think he is. I remember years back, someone trying to compare him with Librado Andrade who years back was an iron chinned guy but slow and clumsy a bit like Froch is. I always though Froch was more of a thinker in the ring than people give him credit for.

Groove Armada wrote:I think Groves head movement and fast powerful punches will shock Carl.

I still believe Carl is mentally fragile AT TIMES and will feel the weight if expectation to win this fight.

The thought of losing to Bute is one thing, but George Groves? The thought will make him very anxious.

Your deluded mate.

Carl has promised the nation to win, to protect it from further ringside shows featuring Groves talking to his local butcher and Jody Morris.

billy nelson wrote:

G0mez wrote:People regarded Lucian Bute as being fast, Carl matched him.

Bute simply froze in the night big time

You joking nelson!

Bute took it too froch claimed ring centre & pressed froch even after getting hurt a few times he still went straight back to froch .
You could say bute could of been boiled out, but then he'd now way would of came to these shores with million percent belief.
Bute was the no1 when froch faced him he was highly regarded & a great amateur. Must of took some mental strength to face him after his wide loss to ward a man who wiped the floor with Kessler & froch had to face him despite losing himself to Kessler. When you put all this in place I can't see groves over awing froch.
Booth & groves think they are being cunning with there plans & if it really was true maybe George is working his ass off to get up the revenues on ppv & it's all a front

hurlock wrote:

billy nelson wrote:

G0mez wrote:People regarded Lucian Bute as being fast, Carl matched him.

Bute simply froze in the night big time

You joking nelson!

Bute took it too froch claimed ring centre & pressed froch even after getting hurt a few times he still went straight back to froch .
You could say bute could of been boiled out, but then he'd now way would of came to these shores with million percent belief.
Bute was the no1 when froch faced him he was highly regarded & a great amateur. Must of took some mental strength to face him after his wide loss to ward a man who wiped the floor with Kessler & froch had to face him despite losing himself to Kessler. When you put all this in place I can't see groves over awing froch.
Booth & groves think they are being cunning with there plans & if it really was true maybe George is working his ass off to get up the revenues on ppv & it's all a front

That is really true. He might of been rated as no1 but Ward was always the best. Not sure how Bute got the no1 ranking anyway when Ward had beaten better competition. Bute was and is a good fighter though.

Yeah ofcourse bute didn't deserve the no.1 spot especially after the super six.

Bute was beating a few decent opponents albeit at the right time & in Canada like there own ricky hatton.

I want too see who the crowd get behind. Seems like froch has become unpopular & if the crowd are pro groves it will be hard for him because no way is gg planning on holding ring centre at any time

So we can still look forward to stories of the Froch Brothers Pillow fighting and playing snooker

Thank Christ for that

G0mez wrote:

Groove Armada wrote:I think Groves head movement and fast powerful punches will shock Carl.

I still believe Carl is mentally fragile AT TIMES and will feel the weight if expectation to win this fight.

The thought of losing to Bute is one thing, but George Groves? The thought will make him very anxious.

Your deluded mate.

Carl has promised the nation to win, to protect it from further ringside shows featuring Groves talking to his local butcher and Jody Morris.

jamesmcdonnell wrote: Froch actually drew the lead from Bute if you actually watch the fight. What he did do, is apply pressure and throw punches in bunches.

.

Groove Armada wrote:I think Groves head movement and fast powerful punches will shock Carl.

I still believe Carl is mentally fragile AT TIMES and will feel the weight if expectation to win this fight.

The thought of losing to Bute is one thing, but George Groves? The thought will make him very anxious.

Mentally fragile???!?!!! He put Jermaine Taylor to sleep with 14 seconds remaining in a bout he knew he was going to lose on the cards - how is he mentally fragile?

columbo wrote:

Deserter wrote:

Groove Armada wrote:I think Groves head movement and fast powerful punches will shock Carl.

Yes, because Carl having been in with Ward, Bute, Taylor, Kessler etc will definitely not prepare him for this in the slightest so he's bound to be shocked by this whole new level of opponent.
Fortunately, by contrast GG has faced a range of world-class fighters to prepare him for Froch's strength, combination punching, ringcraft and experience.

Deserter, i'm not sure about you but I still think Froch get's underrated as a boxer somewhat. Don't get me wrong, he's not the slickest boxer you're ever going to see by any stretch but he works well behind his long jab and I dont think he's as easy to land on as some seem to think he is. I remember years back, someone trying to compare him with Librado Andrade who years back was an iron chinned guy but slow and clumsy a bit like Froch is. I always though Froch was more of a thinker in the ring than people give him credit for.

Indeed, Froch is nowhere near as easy to hit as people make out, Bute found this out, as Froch used his superior reach and a little half step backward, to take him out of reach of Bute's shots. The idea that Froch has zero defence is faintly ridiculous, he's no Pernell whitakker, but he's not some face forward brawler either - he has a good jab when he uses it, and if you watch the Bute fight, he parried Bute's own jab by knocking the lead hand downward continually, which clearly frustrated Bute. Froch can be hit, but he's damned hard to hurt, and more often than not, when someone lands a shot, Froch lands two of his own in return, he likes the openings created by his opponent throwing their shots.

Ward was able to stay in the pocket, block Carl's shots and fire back with his own combinations, and also outworked him in the Clinches, there's not many fighters can do that. I think Froch started too slow against Kessler, and paid the price for it, he was coming on strong in the second half, but left himself too much to do, something I think he's learned his lesson from.

Counter-puncher wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote: Froch actually drew the lead from Bute if you actually watch the fight. What he did do, is apply pressure and throw punches in bunches.

.

Groves will not lead off.. Froch thinks he's beneath him and will try to impose himself early IMO.. If you actually watch the Bute fight again although he draws leads he was also imposing his power on Bute. Bute was a lot easier to hit than Groves will be.. We will see Sat night

columbo wrote:

Deserter wrote:

Groove Armada wrote:I think Groves head movement and fast powerful punches will shock Carl.

Yes, because Carl having been in with Ward, Bute, Taylor, Kessler etc will definitely not prepare him for this in the slightest so he's bound to be shocked by this whole new level of opponent.
Fortunately, by contrast GG has faced a range of world-class fighters to prepare him for Froch's strength, combination punching, ringcraft and experience.

Deserter, i'm not sure about you but I still think Froch get's underrated as a boxer somewhat. Don't get me wrong, he's not the slickest boxer you're ever going to see by any stretch but he works well behind his long jab and I dont think he's as easy to land on as some seem to think he is. I remember years back, someone trying to compare him with Librado Andrade who years back was an iron chinned guy but slow and clumsy a bit like Froch is. I always though Froch was more of a thinker in the ring than people give him credit for.

Indeed, Froch is nowhere near as easy to hit as people make out, Bute found this out, as Froch used his superior reach and a little half step backward, to take him out of reach of Bute's shots. The idea that Froch has zero defence is faintly ridiculous, he's no Pernell whitakker, but he's not some face forward brawler either - he has a good jab when he uses it, and if you watch the Bute fight, he parried Bute's own jab by knocking the lead hand downward continually, which clearly frustrated Bute. Froch can be hit, but he's damned hard to hurt, and more often than not, when someone lands a shot, Froch lands two of his own in return, he likes the openings created by his opponent throwing their shots.

Ward was able to stay in the pocket, block Carl's shots and fire back with his own combinations, and also outworked him in the Clinches, there's not many fighters can do that. I think Froch started too slow against Kessler, and paid the price for it, he was coming on strong in the second half, but left himself too much to do, something I think he's learned his lesson from.[/quote]

It's nice to know someone is on the same page lol. Would you go along with what I said earlier in the thread in regards to Groves being most comparable with Bute in terms of attributes possessed ie good foot and hand speed but not quite on the level of a ward and Dirrell and the same goes for pure boxing ability? Also very similar power aswell I think. Atleast on paper anyway.

daviddee wrote:

Counter-puncher wrote:

jamesmcdonnell wrote: Froch actually drew the lead from Bute if you actually watch the fight. What he did do, is apply pressure and throw punches in bunches.

.

Groves will not lead off.. Froch thinks he's beneath him and will try to impose himself early IMO.. If you actually watch the Bute fight again although he draws leads he was also imposing his power on Bute. Bute was a lot easier to hit than Groves will be.. We will see Sat night

I'm not sure I buy that. Groves leaves some openings like Bute did/does. They're both good boxer/punchers but not totally elusive like a ward or dirrell type.

On the face of it, Groves has no chance - their records don't compare.

But it depends if you think George can really punch -I get the impression he can, and he might just have the hardest punch going at super middle. And while Carl has a great chin, if you catch him right, he can definitely be hurt - as he was against Taylor: that was no flash knock down, he was seriously shook up and took the full 8 count before getting up.

He's obviously 100% confident for this, in his mind George is just a fly that needs to be swatted - he'll be looking at bigger fights than this...so he might just walk on to a shocker on Sat night - could get interesting.

MightyWarrior wrote:On the face of it, Groves has no chance - their records don't compare.

But it depends if you think George can really punch -I get the impression he can, and he might just have the hardest punch going at super middle. And while Carl has a great chin, if you catch him right, he can definitely be hurt - as he was against Taylor: that was no flash knock down, he was seriously shook up and took the full 8 count before getting up.

He's obviously 100% confident for this, in his mind George is just a fly that needs to be swatted - he'll be looking at bigger fights than this...so he might just walk on to a shocker on Sat night - could get interesting.

I think he can punch but I havent seen anything yet to suggest that he hits any harder than Kessler or Bute did/do. Bute going into the Froch fight actually had a slightly higher KO % than Groves does now and had scored a fair few spectacular knockouts of his own along the way. It's an intriguing fight! We'll soon find out all those answers anyway!

bute had a MUCH better resume than groves and achieved LOADS more.

As for groves defence, if froch catches him like Smith did hes in a world of hurt.

stevieb_8006 wrote:bute had a MUCH better resume than groves and achieved LOADS more.

As for groves defence, if froch catches him like Smith did hes in a world of hurt.

Yeah. People actually forget that Bute had beaten Bika pretty wide on points before he became a world champion *final eliminator for the title if memory serves me correct* and this was when Bika was fresh and at his roughest best.

I like people's optimism for Groves, but really, this is going to be a spanking. I predict, rather like others, that Froch will not only try to impose himself, he'll do it successfully and early. If Groves sees the 7th round, he'll go up in my estimation, and if he wins, I'll eat my hat. Froch has taken out slicker boxers with better chins, and although Groves can bang, that hasn't proved the way to beat Carl so far. I expect Groves to stick and move, and hope for an opening, but he'll find Froch cuts the ring off and is right up in his face; I think he'll find himself in a fire fight, and as soon as that happens, he's done.

stevieb_8006 wrote:bute had a MUCH better resume than groves and achieved LOADS more.

As for groves defence, if froch catches him like Smith did hes in a world of hurt.

If Groves catches Froch flush with a punch like he dropped Smith with then Froch will see stars.