BoxRec

Parson Cross wrote:I know mate its terrible int it ?
Promotors never put stuff on local radio shows, stick posters up here there and everywhere, cut deals with sponsors, manage fighters twitter accounts, issue press releases, arrange media days, or even invest in their own mini TV Co do they ?
All a fighter has to do is turn up when told, train hard and well, get paid and sell some tickets.
Any decent fighter should be able to do 50 tickets surely ?

So what does a manager do then?

columbo wrote:

Parson Cross wrote:I know mate its terrible int it ?
Promotors never put stuff on local radio shows, stick posters up here there and everywhere, cut deals with sponsors, manage fighters twitter accounts, issue press releases, arrange media days, or even invest in their own mini TV Co do they ?
All a fighter has to do is turn up when told, train hard and well, get paid and sell some tickets.
Any decent fighter should be able to do 50 tickets surely ?

So what does a manager do then?

What do you think the term manager means ? As far as I see it his duties are to ensure that the boxer is training properley and deal with all the board paperwork medicals etc also to get the best possible purse for his boxer also to ensure his boxer is looked after in all ways

spudder56 wrote:

columbo wrote:

Parson Cross wrote:I know mate its terrible int it ?
Promotors never put stuff on local radio shows, stick posters up here there and everywhere, cut deals with sponsors, manage fighters twitter accounts, issue press releases, arrange media days, or even invest in their own mini TV Co do they ?
All a fighter has to do is turn up when told, train hard and well, get paid and sell some tickets.
Any decent fighter should be able to do 50 tickets surely ?

So what does a manager do then?

What do you think the term manager means ? As far as I see it his duties are to ensure that the boxer is training properley and deal with all the board paperwork medicals etc also to get the best possible purse for his boxer also to ensure his boxer is looked after in all ways

Well the term 'manager' could encompass a lot of things.

jackukmma wrote:I don't get this arguement. You employ a promoter to promote you. If they choose to sit around and do nothing whilst you run around selling tickets what are they actually being paid for?

Fighters don't employ promoters, promoters employ fighters. It's up to the promoter what to do, they pay the fighter.

Parson Cross wrote:DMA,
Let me get this right. You're advocating boxers amalgamating and putting on their own shows ?
So where do you think theyre going to get the cash to set the show up in the first place ?
Which one is going to sit down and organise everything ?
Arena / Security / Advertising / Ticketing / Promotors licence etc etc etc. The list is endless.
Answer - none of em because that's why they employ Promotors and Managers !!!
How many more times are we going to have this debate ?
Boxing is a business.
Why would any Promotor put a fighter on who won't / can't sell tickets and wants a decent purse on top ?
A boxers career is not a white arrow on a pale blue background. No one way streets.

Because he is a good promoter who can actually sell a fight?

I'm not advocating boxers set up their own promos, I was speculating why they wouldn't if the small promoters are trying to become 'risk free' promoters. I used to run my own club-night including organising all of the above, it isn't difficult and is well within the capabilities of a boxer or group of them.

If a company isn't going to actually promote an event then they will eventually become redundant when the people employed by them cotton on they could do it themselves and essentially cut out the middleman. Doesn't apply to the bigger promoters.

Because most of the prospects are fighting journeymen, that sort of fight just won't sell at the box office so the fighter has to sell tickets to friends and family to make up for that. When there's world title fights about for £40 or a small hall show for £30, what are people going to pay to see if they have no connection to the fighters?

expe wrote:Because most of the prospects are fighting journeymen, that sort of fight just won't sell at the box office so the fighter has to sell tickets to friends and family to make up for that. When there's world title fights about for £40 or a small hall show for £30, what are people going to pay to see if they have no connection to the fighters?

If the fighters have to sell their own tickets, why not just join up and cut out the middleman?

DMA1987 wrote:

expe wrote:Because most of the prospects are fighting journeymen, that sort of fight just won't sell at the box office so the fighter has to sell tickets to friends and family to make up for that. When there's world title fights about for £40 or a small hall show for £30, what are people going to pay to see if they have no connection to the fighters?

If the fighters have to sell their own tickets, why not just join up and cut out the middleman?

Who puts the show together then? Too many fighters have no financial knowledge or any clue on how to put a show on, they'd lose money and it would just make things worse.

expe wrote:

DMA1987 wrote:

expe wrote:Because most of the prospects are fighting journeymen, that sort of fight just won't sell at the box office so the fighter has to sell tickets to friends and family to make up for that. When there's world title fights about for £40 or a small hall show for £30, what are people going to pay to see if they have no connection to the fighters?

If the fighters have to sell their own tickets, why not just join up and cut out the middleman?

Who puts the show together then? Too many fighters have no financial knowledge or any clue on how to put a show on, they'd lose money and it would just make things worse.

Would it? The individual parts to a show would be easily learned and aren't difficult to set up as far as I can see, I had to organise most of that. The promoters would have you believe it is difficult obviously. Otherwise there truly wouldn't be a point to them. You could hire an individual to manage it if you really needed to.

I am all for promoters, but when they are only putting fights on which have pre-paid for themselves it's a cop out. They are fast moving away from being anything like a 'promoter'.

i think it's just the name ,it should be called an organiser rather than a promoter .
the promoters are really organisers ,they put the show together ,match make and so on .

DMA1987 wrote:

expe wrote:

DMA1987 wrote:
If the fighters have to sell their own tickets, why not just join up and cut out the middleman?

Who puts the show together then? Too many fighters have no financial knowledge or any clue on how to put a show on, they'd lose money and it would just make things worse.

Would it? The individual parts to a show would be easily learned and aren't difficult to set up as far as I can see, I had to organise most of that. The promoters would have you believe it is difficult obviously. Otherwise there truly wouldn't be a point to them. You could hire an individual to manage it if you really needed to.

I am all for promoters, but when they are only putting fights on which have pre-paid for themselves it's a cop out. They are fast moving away from being anything like a 'promoter'.

Most fighters run early in the morning, work in the day and train at night. Many have families, plus they have to sell tickets. With all that, how do they find the time to set up shows? Negotiating purses and matchmaking would be an absolute nightmare.

expe wrote:

DMA1987 wrote:
Would it? The individual parts to a show would be easily learned and aren't difficult to set up as far as I can see, I had to organise most of that. The promoters would have you believe it is difficult obviously. Otherwise there truly wouldn't be a point to them. You could hire an individual to manage it if you really needed to.

I am all for promoters, but when they are only putting fights on which have pre-paid for themselves it's a cop out. They are fast moving away from being anything like a 'promoter'.

Most fighters run early in the morning, work in the day and train at night. Many have families, plus they have to sell tickets. With all that, how do they find the time to set up shows? Negotiating purses and matchmaking would be an absolute nightmare.

They would have a manager wouldn't they. Plus I'm on about it being all of the boxers in co-operation rather than 1. Split the workload.

What I'm mostly saying is it looks a lot like some promoters' full time job is whingeing with setting up events on the side. If some of them spent less time covering their backs and more time promoting, then everybody might do a bit better.

DMA1987 wrote:

expe wrote:

DMA1987 wrote:
Would it? The individual parts to a show would be easily learned and aren't difficult to set up as far as I can see, I had to organise most of that. The promoters would have you believe it is difficult obviously. Otherwise there truly wouldn't be a point to them. You could hire an individual to manage it if you really needed to.

I am all for promoters, but when they are only putting fights on which have pre-paid for themselves it's a cop out. They are fast moving away from being anything like a 'promoter'.

Most fighters run early in the morning, work in the day and train at night. Many have families, plus they have to sell tickets. With all that, how do they find the time to set up shows? Negotiating purses and matchmaking would be an absolute nightmare.

They would have a manager wouldn't they. Plus I'm on about it being all of the boxers in co-operation rather than 1. Split the workload.

What I'm mostly saying is it looks a lot like some promoters' full time job is whingeing with setting up events on the side. If some of them spent less time covering their backs and more time promoting, then everybody might do a bit better.

I don't think fighters working together on shows work, but I agree with you on promoters. Get some posters up, most decent printers can print them off now so they don't cost loads and twitter, facebook etc are free, so use them. Once something or someone starts to become popular, people quickly jump on the bandwagon.

Who buys tickets for the school nativity? Immediate family, and friends who are too nice, or too drunk, to say no. You could spend a mint promoting the play to all and sundry but the only additional tickets you'd shift would be to the few paedophiles who hadn't already scoped the site out. You know exactly what will happen in advance, the acting is mostly crap and the production is low-budget. Even the kids with a bit of raw talent are so much better than the rest it's cringe-worthy. Bad actors getting a subsidised moment in the spotlight and a chance to dream. If the school pulls in enough to cover costs or turn a small profit, great. If they were to go at their promotion like a West End company, the school would be boarded up and pot-less in double-quick time.

expe wrote:

jackukmma wrote:I don't get this arguement. You employ a promoter to promote you. If they choose to sit around and do nothing whilst you run around selling tickets what are they actually being paid for?

Fighters don't employ promoters, promoters employ fighters. It's up to the promoter what to do, they pay the fighter.

I think that this is arse about tit - the boxer employs and pays the promoter.

I still don't get the recent attitude on this forum with regards to promoters - they don't do it for a laugh, they are clearly making money out of it. Otherwise, who would set up any kind of business that was loss-making ?

Aden wrote:Who buys tickets for the school nativity? Immediate family, and friends who are too nice, or too drunk, to say no. You could spend a mint promoting the play to all and sundry but the only additional tickets you'd shift would be to the few paedophiles who hadn't already scoped the site out. You know exactly what will happen in advance, the acting is mostly crap and the production is low-budget. Even the kids with a bit of raw talent are so much better than the rest it's cringe-worthy. Bad actors getting a subsidised moment in the spotlight and a chance to dream. If the school pulls in enough to cover costs or turn a small profit, great. If they were to go at their promotion like a West End company, the school would be boarded up and pot-less in double-quick time.

X2 lol

bripez wrote:

expe wrote:

jackukmma wrote:I don't get this arguement. You employ a promoter to promote you. If they choose to sit around and do nothing whilst you run around selling tickets what are they actually being paid for?

Fighters don't employ promoters, promoters employ fighters. It's up to the promoter what to do, they pay the fighter.

I think that this is arse about tit - the boxer employs and pays the promoter.

I still don't get the recent attitude on this forum with regards to promoters - they don't do it for a laugh, they are clearly making money out of it. Otherwise, who would set up any kind of business that was loss-making ?

How does the fighter pay the promoter? All revenue from the show goes to the promoter first, then from that they pay the fighters purses, who then pay trainers and managers cuts from that purse? I don't know of anyone who pays their own employer.

Columbo - serious question, not a snide. Do you work for a living or are you a student ? 13000+ posts in 18 months. Do you ever do any work ?

Parson Cross wrote: Any decent fighter should be able to do 50 tickets surely ?

r

Trouble is its not normally 50 they expect you to sell, its more like 150

Black Sam Bellamy wrote:Columbo - serious question, not a snide. Do you work for a living or are you a student ? 13000+ posts in 18 months. Do you ever do any work ?

Lol sounds like a snide but i'l bite anyway. Student.

Aden wrote:Who buys tickets for the school nativity? Immediate family, and friends who are too nice, or too drunk, to say no. You could spend a mint promoting the play to all and sundry but the only additional tickets you'd shift would be to the few paedophiles who hadn't already scoped the site out. You know exactly what will happen in advance, the acting is mostly crap and the production is low-budget. Even the kids with a bit of raw talent are so much better than the rest it's cringe-worthy. Bad actors getting a subsidised moment in the spotlight and a chance to dream. If the school pulls in enough to cover costs or turn a small profit, great. If they were to go at their promotion like a West End company, the school would be boarded up and pot-less in double-quick time.

Its just the worst comparison ever really. The only people interested in a school nativity are the family and friends. Boxing has a far wider pool of interest, if you can be bothered to sell to it.

thechamp wrote:

Parson Cross wrote: Any decent fighter should be able to do 50 tickets surely

There are plenty of "names" out there who couldnt sell out a phone box!!

A couple of high profile fighters went through the early parts of their careers selling f*ck all - I can remember the days when I was still in the Army getting "rent a crowd in" into shows - One show particulary surprised me and that was Hatton v Maussa at Sheffield ... that was only a few months from the sold out Kostya Tzsyu fight - I have never worked so hard trying to shift tickets ... managed to get something like 700 squaddies there for that one. Sheffield Arena still did not sell out!!

It was great having the lads there for some shows as they were under instruction if they didnt scream shout etc etc they would be in Jail on Monday morning.

They were daft c*nts I cant remember what show it was but they were told to shout and scream for the "House" fighter because he was bound to win ... it was one of them fights where the foreign opponent won and yep the daft c*nts started standing on their chairs cheering the away fighter ... it sent me into a proper frenzy and rant

DMA1987 wrote:

Aden wrote:Who buys tickets for the school nativity? Immediate family, and friends who are too nice, or too drunk, to say no. You could spend a mint promoting the play to all and sundry but the only additional tickets you'd shift would be to the few paedophiles who hadn't already scoped the site out. You know exactly what will happen in advance, the acting is mostly crap and the production is low-budget. Even the kids with a bit of raw talent are so much better than the rest it's cringe-worthy. Bad actors getting a subsidised moment in the spotlight and a chance to dream. If the school pulls in enough to cover costs or turn a small profit, great. If they were to go at their promotion like a West End company, the school would be boarded up and pot-less in double-quick time.

Its just the worst comparison ever really. The only people interested in a school nativity are the family and friends. Boxing has a far wider pool of interest, if you can be bothered to sell to it.

Small hall boxing is pretty much what I described.

Aden wrote:

DMA1987 wrote:

Aden wrote:Who buys tickets for the school nativity? Immediate family, and friends who are too nice, or too drunk, to say no. You could spend a mint promoting the play to all and sundry but the only additional tickets you'd shift would be to the few paedophiles who hadn't already scoped the site out. You know exactly what will happen in advance, the acting is mostly crap and the production is low-budget. Even the kids with a bit of raw talent are so much better than the rest it's cringe-worthy. Bad actors getting a subsidised moment in the spotlight and a chance to dream. If the school pulls in enough to cover costs or turn a small profit, great. If they were to go at their promotion like a West End company, the school would be boarded up and pot-less in double-quick time.

Its just the worst comparison ever really. The only people interested in a school nativity are the family and friends. Boxing has a far wider pool of interest, if you can be bothered to sell to it.

Small hall boxing is pretty much what I described.

Its like that because they make it so. It can be marketed. Anything can be marketed, and not at a horrendous cost. Its about being good at your job surely? And I think the actors at a nativity play can still act without ticket selling criteria to meet.

And jumping from a school nativity play to west end production isn't great, no stages of marketing in-between?

Spud wrote:

Parson Cross wrote: Any decent fighter should be able to do 50 tickets surely

There are plenty of "names" out there who couldnt sell out a phone box!!

A couple of high profile fighters went through the early parts of their careers selling f*ck all - I can remember the days when I was still in the Army getting "rent a crowd in" into shows - One show particulary surprised me and that was Hatton v Maussa at Sheffield ... that was only a few months from the sold out Kostya Tzsyu fight - I have never worked so hard trying to shift tickets ... managed to get something like 700 squaddies there for that one. Sheffield Arena still did not sell out!!

It was great having the lads there for some shows as they were under instruction if they didnt scream shout etc etc they would be in Jail on Monday morning.

They were daft c*nts I cant remember what show it was but they were told to shout and scream for the "House" fighter because he was bound to win ... it was one of them fights where the foreign opponent won and yep the daft c*nts started standing on their chairs cheering the away fighter ... it sent me into a proper frenzy and rant [/quote]