BoxRec

Late payments do seem to be a complaint about Warren, I suspect he has cash flow issues because he's trying to run his own TV channel and the money he's plowed into that mean his cash reserves are low, although I'm sure he has plenty in his personal bank account. I think legal precedents may play a big part and what the contract stated about payments will be important in determining if there was a breach. Then there's the question of what happens afterwards, Fwank must know that he's not getting Burns back, but he will surely want compensation if he wins and his lawyers will be after their fees, so in that case someone would have to pay them, I just hope it isn't Ricky, he doesn't deserve to lose money because he was badly advised. Ricky's managed by Alex Morrison, so it's a different case to Stephen Smith, but like you said, it could have big ramifications, especially on Jamie McDonnell.[/quote]

I think a major part of all this legal action is to set out a marker than you can't just walk away from a promoter. I'm sure we'll see, in the fullness of time, matchroom taking a fighter to court to enforce an existing contract.

Fwank wanted to do it over Bellew but gave up after the BBBC hearing, and admitted doing so on legal advice, adding a comment to the effect that "it was only tony bellew".

What's interesting is that of all the fighters who have left Fwank, who's genuinely gone onto bigger and better things ? Bellew had a great run but came up short in Canada. Burns has gone downhill quickly. Groves doesn't count as he was not developed and brought through by Fwank. Too early to say for Stephen Smith. Kell Brook has been treading water forever.

Perhaps they've got paid on time and got more money too but so far nobody's cracked it and proven the decision to jump ship was definitely the right career move. If Ricky Burns loses his world title and his court case and ends up broke and fighting on undercards by the end of the year, it would be a pretty sobering end to the story.

JimJim2009 wrote:then there was the Vazquez debacle, but that fight was rearranged, whether Vazquez had agreed to that is unknown. Personally, I think Vazquez agreed to fight on the original date, but a purse wasn't agreed, but the fight wasn't announced and as the fight got closer, Vazquez felt it wasn't going to happen and eased off his training, a deal was then agreed, but Vazquez wanted more time to prepare, so they pushed the fight back and went with the dodgy seafood excuse, that was then ruined by the footage of him sparring when he was supposed to have the shits. That's just my view on it, but I don't see where the breach of contract was.

There's been a lot of this sort of thing going on though - announcing a fight before it's been formally agreed. I bet its usually kept hush hush but every now and then publicity breaks and we get a peek behind the curtain, as with Wilder-Chisora. It's alright the promoter moaning about legal problems keeping Wilder out of the UK but part of your job when booking a fight is to make sure the marquee opponent booked to come over, can actually come over. That period of time with Ricky Burns was laughable, one fight after another was announced, and Bronner caused mischief by offering to fight Ricky in Feb, it was no surprise when Ricky gave up on his promoter. I felt it was a case of the boxer mirroring what the fans felt - that the announcements and proposed fights weren't to be trusted.[/quote]
It does seem to be a favourite of Warren's that, although Wilder was over sparring Haye not long after. I think he relies on ticket sales through fighter's too much, rather than sales at the box office, he's trying to build fighters and some do seem to be well supported like Buglioni, but Chisora and Saunders don't seem to sell many tickets and are just put on as token main events for TV. Then there's the likes of Frankie Gavin that are forced to fight away from home, he hasn't fought in Birmingham since September 2010, but he's for me, the best fighter in Fwank's stable and has always sold well there in the past and as he moves towards world titles, he needs to be marketed in Brum.

Realistically, right now, Warren puts on shows in London and Liverpool, but there's little elsewhere. He has a show up in Newcastle in March with Jon Lewis Dickinson topping the bill and with Bradley Saunders and Josh Leather on his books hopefully he can start to build a few shows up there. He's now signed Flannigan, to go with the Murray's and I'm sure Denton Vassell is a free agent, so there's the basis of a Manchester show and stick Frankie on in Birmingham and build him there. Without Cleverly's WBO belt, he has little reason to go to Wales, so the priority must be to move him towards a world title at cruiserweight quickly so he can go back there with Enzo as chief support. Now Ormond's beat Derry, with Gary O'Sullivan and Steve Collins Jr signed, plus a number of Dublin fighters hoping for a chance to fight on a bigger stage like Patrick Hyland and Phil Sutcliffe Jr, he could put on a show there soon. While things aren't great for Warren, as his fighters step up in class, things are starting to look up a bit and hopefully that can lead to better shows with fights announced at the start that stay together and fighters being paid on time and in full, or however their contracts state they are to be paid.

I think he'll give Liverpool a massive push this year. He will be hurting at not having a world champ and his next one is Butler, if he can agree terms for a fight with Stuart Hall. The city has had a few false dawns with Bellew and Price, who's drawn big crowds and it has a boxing-friendly arena too. Butler vs Hall would be a cracking main event, I'd be tempted to go but I would be worried about seeing Butler vs Ian Napa on the night

JimJim2009 wrote:Late payments do seem to be a complaint about Warren, I suspect he has cash flow issues because he's trying to run his own TV channel and the money he's plowed into that mean his cash reserves are low, although I'm sure he has plenty in his personal bank account. I think legal precedents may play a big part and what the contract stated about payments will be important in determining if there was a breach. Then there's the question of what happens afterwards, Fwank must know that he's not getting Burns back, but he will surely want compensation if he wins and his lawyers will be after their fees, so in that case someone would have to pay them, I just hope it isn't Ricky, he doesn't deserve to lose money because he was badly advised. Ricky's managed by Alex Morrison, so it's a different case to Stephen Smith, but like you said, it could have big ramifications, especially on Jamie McDonnell.

I think a major part of all this legal action is to set out a marker than you can't just walk away from a promoter. I'm sure we'll see, in the fullness of time, matchroom taking a fighter to court to enforce an existing contract.

Fwank wanted to do it over Bellew but gave up after the BBBC hearing, and admitted doing so on legal advice, adding a comment to the effect that "it was only tony bellew".

What's interesting is that of all the fighters who have left Fwank, who's genuinely gone onto bigger and better things ? Bellew had a great run but came up short in Canada. Burns has gone downhill quickly. Groves doesn't count as he was not developed and brought through by Fwank. Too early to say for Stephen Smith. Kell Brook has been treading water forever.

Perhaps they've got paid on time and got more money too but so far nobody's cracked it and proven the decision to jump ship was definitely the right career move. If Ricky Burns loses his world title and his court case and ends up broke and fighting on undercards by the end of the year, it would be a pretty sobering end to the story.[/quote]
It is an interesting one that, while Hearn and Sky seem to be undoubtedly better money wise and for publicity, the one thing Warren has going for him is that he knows how to develop a fighter with the right fights at the right time, plus knowing how to play the sanctioning bodies to avoid mandatories and get his fighters underserved rankings and mandatory positions like Michael Jennings being ranked #1 before Cotto and Burns becoming mandatory and when the time comes, he isn't afraid to take a risk and bring a champion over here, that may be diminished now with the sad loss of Dean Powell, who should take so much credit for the progess of fighters like Burns.

JimJim2009 wrote:I think he'll give Liverpool a massive push this year. He will be hurting at not having a world champ and his next one is Butler, if he can agree terms for a fight with Stuart Hall. The city has had a few false dawns with Bellew and Price, who's drawn big crowds and it has a boxing-friendly arena too. Butler vs Hall would be a cracking main event, I'd be tempted to go but I would be worried about seeing Butler vs Ian Napa on the night

Haha, Derry-Commey and Satchell defending his Commonwealth title against Isaac Quaye are both lined up for the Echo in March, so unbelievably Bunny has two confirmed fights for a show that hasn't properly been announced yet. Hopefully Selkirk-Heffron finally comes off on that bill, because it looks a cracking fight to me that's a dead on 50-50 that could turn into a real war and if Hall-Butler is confirmed that would be 4 fights on the same show, all with opponents, 2 months out. That shouldn't be a big achievement, but it is for Fwank and Liam Smith will undoubtedly be on that show too, hopefully against any one of Jamie Cox, Al Harbi, Welborn, Godding, Alcine, Phil Lo Greco and Daniel Dawson.

Doesn't pay his fighters... I know for fact he owes two ex fighters in the region of £200k

lusop wrote:Doesn't pay his fighters... I know for fact he owes two ex fighters in the region of £200k

Who are they? PM if needed.

if Hall-Butler is confirmed that would be 4 fights on the same show, all with opponents, 2 months out. That shouldn't be a big achievement, but it is for Fwank and Liam Smith will undoubtedly be on that show too, hopefully against any one of Jamie Cox, Al Harbi, Welborn, Godding, Alcine, Phil Lo Greco and Daniel Dawson.[/quote]

His shows need to be over-stacked from the outset because they tend to have fallen apart by fight-night. He staged the Magnificent Seven bill years ago, if he'd done it last year it would have been the Magnificent One, with a WBO European title on the line.

If this Liverpool show does do well, it wouldn't be the worst idea in the world for David Price's manager to make a phone call or two, and get David on the bill - have him back winning in front of the home city fans. Even if its a nothing fight, it would be good for David. The German promotional team might not give a fig about that but a good knock out win in front of the home fans would be a good part of the rebuilding process. No matter how many fights he has out in Germany, and how long it takes, at some point when the big fights come, he needs to have some or all back in the UK.

JimJim2009 wrote:if Hall-Butler is confirmed that would be 4 fights on the same show, all with opponents, 2 months out. That shouldn't be a big achievement, but it is for Fwank and Liam Smith will undoubtedly be on that show too, hopefully against any one of Jamie Cox, Al Harbi, Welborn, Godding, Alcine, Phil Lo Greco and Daniel Dawson.

His shows need to be over-stacked from the outset because they tend to have fallen apart by fight-night. He staged the Magnificent Seven bill years ago, if he'd done it last year it would have been the Magnificent One, with a WBO European title on the line.

If this Liverpool show does do well, it wouldn't be the worst idea in the world for David Price's manager to make a phone call or two, and get David on the bill - have him back winning in front of the home city fans. Even if its a nothing fight, it would be good for David. The German promotional team might not give a fig about that but a good knock out win in front of the home fans would be a good part of the rebuilding process. No matter how many fights he has out in Germany, and how long it takes, at some point when the big fights come, he needs to have some or all back in the UK.[/quote]
It feels like ages but the magnificent 7 was only just over 3 years ago, wish he could do another show like that or Hearn would, a show that like that's always worth paying £15 for.

expe wrote: I haven't seen the contract and don't know anything of it or how boxing contracts work, but I don't see where a breach of contract came from.

The Internet summed up in one sentence.

expe wrote:

JimJim2009 wrote:I think he'll give Liverpool a massive push this year. He will be hurting at not having a world champ and his next one is Butler, if he can agree terms for a fight with Stuart Hall. The city has had a few false dawns with Bellew and Price, who's drawn big crowds and it has a boxing-friendly arena too. Butler vs Hall would be a cracking main event, I'd be tempted to go but I would be worried about seeing Butler vs Ian Napa on the night

Haha, Derry-Commey and Satchell defending his Commonwealth title against Isaac Quaye are both lined up for the Echo in March, so unbelievably Bunny has two confirmed fights for a show that hasn't properly been announced yet. Hopefully Selkirk-Heffron finally comes off on that bill, because it looks a cracking fight to me that's a dead on 50-50 that could turn into a real war and if Hall-Butler is confirmed that would be 4 fights on the same show, all with opponents, 2 months out. That shouldn't be a big achievement, but it is for Fwank and Liam Smith will undoubtedly be on that show too, hopefully against any one of Jamie Cox, Al Harbi, Welborn, Godding, Alcine, Phil Lo Greco and Daniel Dawson.

Satchell just changed managers I wonder if he fight then. There another Liverpool show at the Echo on 15th March will two sell in a month?

earsjohn wrote:

expe wrote: I haven't seen the contract and don't know anything of it or how boxing contracts work, but I don't see where a breach of contract came from.

The Internet summed up in one sentence.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/personal-incredulity

G0mez wrote:

earsjohn wrote:

expe wrote: I haven't seen the contract and don't know anything of it or how boxing contracts work, but I don't see where a breach of contract came from.

The Internet summed up in one sentence.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/personal-incredulity

I don't even need to click that link to know its wrong

My view is that if your boxing eggs at a chicken factory, are waiting around for wages - and then they go bust...

... how can they complain or claim any rights over you , if you move to another chicken factory ?

G0mez wrote:My view is that if your boxing eggs at a chicken factory, are waiting around for wages - and then they go bust...

... how can they complain or claim any rights over you , if you move to another chicken factory ?

What an odd comparison.


Anyway my missus caught me having a wank whilst watching "Abby's Ultimate Dance Competition" last night. It took me ages to convince her I was wanking over the hot mums and not the kids.

Khaosai-Galaxy wrote:
What an odd comparison.


Anyway my missus caught me having a wank whilst watching "Abby's Ultimate Dance Competition" last night. It took me ages to convince her I was wanking over the hot mums and not the kids.

Reminds me of the time I was caught with a Hoover pipe up my asshole.

I told her I was into kinky sex with household appliances, to throw her off the scent of the embarrassing fact I was actually doing housework.

Definitely dodged a bullet that day.

Bit of a liberty really with FW taking fighters to court. Didn't he lose a court case against Joe Calz, and was ordered to pay him £2,000,000 but swerved it by going 'bust'?

Then started up a new company

Now he's taking Ricky and Kev to court! - What a tosser

I don't get how people get away with not paying the amounts of money seen in this thread, I've seen a bloke set on fire over a 5 quid bag of weed he hadn't paid for.

banjo wrote:I don't get how people get away with not paying the amounts of money seen in this thread, I've seen a bloke set on fire over a 5 quid bag of weed he hadn't paid for.

Yeah but he'd been warned before

Eddy wrote:Bit of a liberty really with FW taking fighters to court. Didn't he lose a court case against Joe Calz, and was ordered to pay him £2,000,000 but swerved it by going 'bust'?

Then started up a new company

Now he's taking Ricky and Kev to court! - What a tosser

What I found particularly galling was, in Fwank's xmas interview on his own TV station, he said that if he wins the judgement against Ricky, he will enforce it.

Calzaghe got a judgement against Fwank, and thereafter followed some despicable moves, leaving Joe unable to enforce the judgement and lay his hands on the dosh.

G0mez wrote:My view is that if your boxing eggs at a chicken factory, are waiting around for wages - and then they go bust...

... how can they complain or claim any rights over you , if you move to another chicken factory ?

But what if the company owning the chicken factory moves you to another factory, or you attempt to leave without handing in your notice?

expe wrote:

G0mez wrote:My view is that if your boxing eggs at a chicken factory, are waiting around for wages - and then they go bust...

... how can they complain or claim any rights over you , if you move to another chicken factory ?

But what if the company owning the chicken factory moves you to another factory, or you attempt to leave without handing in your notice?

You hire Terry Marsh

Terry Marsh needs to step up!

expe wrote:

G0mez wrote:My view is that if your boxing eggs at a chicken factory, are waiting around for wages - and then they go bust...

... how can they complain or claim any rights over you , if you move to another chicken factory ?

But what if the company owning the chicken factory moves you to another factory, or you attempt to leave without handing in your notice?

Have you ever seen a chicken hand his or her notice in?

jameswilson wrote:

expe wrote:

G0mez wrote:My view is that if your boxing eggs at a chicken factory, are waiting around for wages - and then they go bust...

... how can they complain or claim any rights over you , if you move to another chicken factory ?

But what if the company owning the chicken factory moves you to another factory, or you attempt to leave without handing in your notice?

Have you ever seen a chicken hand his or her notice in?

I didn't think chickens could box eggs to be honest.