BoxRec

n1ebf wrote:

stujones wrote:I would suggest that the 50 year old player coach, prop, who is obese and never a "trainer", runs a hell of a lot better and quicker than these.

Is this a parody? They cannot be serious. That's a shambles.

I can remember Lennox Lewis basically embarrassing himself on the American version of superstars when he was champ..... but he looked Halle Gabreselle compared to these.

so what? I can't see why you've dragged Hughie into this. He was moving very freely, they might have spent the last hour training. Very harsh indeed. Why won't the cousin get passed domestic level? I'm far from a close follower but to my knowledge the competition in this country is not exactly deep.....there's routinely lads around his weight class in the top 10 or higher whose tally of "L's" is into the double figures. I haven't really had a chance to observe - but I'd suggest at 19 or whatever he is, he's making a splendid fist of it so far.

Also i think heavier athletes are always going to be at a disadvantage when it comes to things like Superstars. Especially heavyweight boxers. They're shifting one hell of a lot of muscle-mass, even doing basic press-ups. They're not whippets.

There is a big difference between top 10 or higher domestically and getting past domestic level, which is what I stated. He already is, IMO arguably top 10 domestically and I would sure favour him against the likes of a Tom Dallas, Larry O character now.

But seeing how spent he looked at the end of 6 rounds either against Darch or Kisicek (can't remember which one), hand to his waist, wild swinging hit and hope tactics - nah, don't think he is going to be EBU champion. For me not getting past domestic level is someone who can win a british level and not make the step beyond that. Danny Williams, although fought for a world title, never got past domestic level.

I see Tyson as the better fighter, better stamina and possibly even better power and a fair amount trickier cause of his freakish size.

Aden wrote:If you try and stay in fighting shape all year round, you'll never come close to your potential and you'll be far more susceptible to injuries. Plenty of NFL and NBA guys get fat in the off-season and cyclists like Bernard Hinault, Miguel Indurain and Jan Ulrich would tip-up at the start of a training block looking obese. We live in a culture where image is sold as everything, but that doesn't mean image actually is everything. Fighters boxing twice a year should peak on two days each year.

It's nothing to do with image. To put weight so much weight on in-between fights is not good for your body at all. Funnily enough I'm reading Ricky Hattons autobiography and he thinks he was so stupid doing it now in hindsight. It's not healthy for anyone to balloon up and down all the time let alone a pro fighter

Aden wrote:If you try and stay in fighting shape all year round, you'll never come close to your potential and you'll be far more susceptible to injuries. Plenty of NFL and NBA guys get fat in the off-season and cyclists like Bernard Hinault, Miguel Indurain and Jan Ulrich would tip-up at the start of a training block looking obese. We live in a culture where image is sold as everything, but that doesn't mean image actually is everything. Fighters boxing twice a year should peak on two days each year.

good post.

palooka wrote:He'd smash any other non contact athlete to pieces and most other contact athletes as well; I really think you're underestimating how hard a boxer can hit and overestimating how much of a punch an ordinary person can take.

maybe. But because Bolt's training hasn't taken place in a boxing gym doesn't mean to me he's not in much better shape than Fury. Even though he's lighter, I'd bet he's stronger. Bolt's muscles have been working harder than Fury's for much longer - he's more professional. But I agree - that doesn't mean he'd necessarily be a great puncher - or able to take a punch.[/quote]

Thanks for the reply; I imagine that Bolt has far more explosive power in his core and legs and his arms I'd imagine are more for balance, also his power is concentrated directly forward whereas a boxer throws their fist through a target. On a 'Superstars' type programme Bolt would humiliate Fury - in a row behind a pub Fury would really show Bolt up.[/quote]



Fury would be on a different plain mentally, at that sort of thing. Sure he talks a lot of sh*t a lot of the time, but he's quite comfortable with this sort of thing. In fact, I don't think I've ever seen a boxer look so relaxed minutes before a big fight. Deluded or otherwise - I suspect Tyson Fury would've been confident of victory even if he was boxing his prime namessake!

It looks more like three lads on the lash in Ibiza messing about on the beach than professional boxers training. I bet Klitschko is shaking in his boots. Surely, a parody?

n1ebf wrote:

mickey1975 wrote:Rubbish. He is a sprinter. You have no idea he is going to be any better boxer than the next man. It's highly probable Fury would knock him out within a round no matter how much training he did. People go on like any big guy could turn their hand to heavyweight boxing just because they are big and black. Going back a bit, how do you think Roger Black would have got on against Nigel Benn, with a bit of training, of course?

talk about wanting to have your cake and eat it! Different matter altogether. Don't compare Bolt stepping in with Tyson to Black stepping in with Nigel Benn. Would you not agree with me that Fury and Benn are two massively different animals, at two pretty far apart points on the boxing spectrum - ability-wise?

Also - I said Bolt was 6'5'' and a powerhouse and a thoroughbred - and I said IF he had any basic ability to start with, i.e. how to punch for one. Then I said if someone got hold of him for six months or so, a proper trainer. At no point did I say being black would help him - you imagined that part mate .....being black? Roger Black? what is it with you? Come on mate - I'm talking about Tyson Fury here. If it were a prime Steve Collins or someone like that, then obviously I wouldn't expect Bolt to be good enough to challenge. But Fury never has, and never will be that good.

No, I stand by what I said. Bolt has shown nothing to suggest he is a fighter, ever.

mickey1975 wrote:

n1ebf wrote:

mickey1975 wrote:Rubbish. He is a sprinter. You have no idea he is going to be any better boxer than the next man. It's highly probable Fury would knock him out within a round no matter how much training he did. People go on like any big guy could turn their hand to heavyweight boxing just because they are big and black. Going back a bit, how do you think Roger Black would have got on against Nigel Benn, with a bit of training, of course?

talk about wanting to have your cake and eat it! Different matter altogether. Don't compare Bolt stepping in with Tyson to Black stepping in with Nigel Benn. Would you not agree with me that Fury and Benn are two massively different animals, at two pretty far apart points on the boxing spectrum - ability-wise?

Also - I said Bolt was 6'5'' and a powerhouse and a thoroughbred - and I said IF he had any basic ability to start with, i.e. how to punch for one. Then I said if someone got hold of him for six months or so, a proper trainer. At no point did I say being black would help him - you imagined that part mate .....being black? Roger Black? what is it with you? Come on mate - I'm talking about Tyson Fury here. If it were a prime Steve Collins or someone like that, then obviously I wouldn't expect Bolt to be good enough to challenge. But Fury never has, and never will be that good.

No, I stand by what I said. Bolt has shown nothing to suggest he is a fighter, ever.

what does that even mean? Why would he have shown anything to suggest he's a fighter? He wins running races and goes on tele and he's in better shape that Tyson Fury will ever be. We don't know if Bolt can punch because nobody's seen him throw one, but provided he isn't cack-handed I bet a coach could make him look like a boxer pretty bloody sharpish.....although naturally, you can't coach experience.

ScottDetonator wrote:It looks more like three lads on the lash in Ibiza messing about on the beach than professional boxers training. I bet Klitschko is shaking in his boots. Surely, a parody?

actually looking at it - and we don't know how long they'd been doing that - I think Fury has some determination, and some muscle tone in those arms and legs. I thought he was doing okay considering his size and that he's on sand. Certainly didn't look like a lad on the lash to me, I think that's harsh.

I give up. You are totally disrespecting all fighters by claiming another man, just because he's elite in his own sport, could give a world ranked fighter a good fight . I have never seen Fury play Snooker, but would guess, with ten years training, would still get hammered by everyone in the top 100.

mickey1975 wrote:I give up. You are totally disrespecting all fighters by claiming another man, just because he's elite in his own sport, could give a world ranked fighter a good fight . I have never seen Fury play Snooker, but would guess, with ten years training, would still get hammered by everyone in the top 100.

not sure how you manage to go that far. I like Tyson - but he boxes in an era, and a weight extremity (or division) - where the quality is not of the highest. If he was a 3 stone smaller man of similar ability, very few people would have even heard of him. Also I didn't say Bolt would beat him, I just think with coaching, if he was any good to start with, he might be able to compete with Tyson, who I believe is a man of limited boxing as well as athletic ability - and I do like Tyson Fury remember. I'm saying nothing about any other fighters, so I agree we'll disagree on this one. One would think Tyson would win - given that he's massively more experienced, and a figher, and a gypsy, whereas Bolt isn't. I'm just saying Bolt could probably have a serious row if he wanted to.

n1ebf wrote:

mickey1975 wrote:

damianhucker1 wrote:one thing for sure is Usain Bolt wont be worried haha.

He would if Tyson clouted him.... He's a boxer not a sprinter.

Sorry, but I reckon if Usain had any type of basic grounding in boxing he could give Tyson a match. Usain Bolt is a 6ft 5inches tall powerhouse thoroughbred. He probably hasn't misplaced a calorie in 10-15years. He's not going to get in there and get tired. If someone taught Usain for a few months I reckon you'd have something, guaranteed.

jesus tittyfvcking christ.

it is to my eternal regret that datsue doesn't seem to have seen this comment, and my own response, doubtless far less scabrous and entertaining, will have to suffice.

because, nebf, in an internet career positively littered with stupidicisms- 'i have never seen boxer X, but I am pretty sure he will have too much for boxer Y' being only my favourite, amongst a veritable clusterfvck of off-the-cuff moronisms- even by your own standards, you have reverse-surpassed yourself.

i mean, your normal stupid is just a bit dull, innocuous; not stupid on a hurlock level where you suspect that an IQ only just into 3 figures in the first place is being severely hampered by both dyslexia and ADHD; your normal stupid is much less noteworthy, not enough to make one bang the desk and say 'fvck me that fella's stupid', more 'meh, him again, what would i expect'

but no, congrats. you've blown my expectations out of the water.

i can only hope every single post you make from now on lives up to these heady standards, because you have truly exchanged being a run-of-the-mill internet prat, for someone capable of leading any conversation into a Pure Vortex of Moron.

i officially lost 10 IQ points just reading that comment.

All I know is a prime Seb Coe would have played with them both

JimJim2009 wrote:All I know is a prime Seb Coe would have played with them both

With training, in the early 80's, he would have have given Alan Minter a good go.

Rubbish. I suspect there's plenty of disagreement with your comments on these boards. I think Tyson Fury is a slugger who nearly dozed off on John McDermott's shoulder, beat Steve Cunningham by some combination of his sheer size and using some highly dubious pinning technique on the ropes, after getting decked heavily in the first minute. Usain Bolt probably doesn't drink alcohol in pubs until he's p*ssed, he probably doesn't touch alcohol at all. It was 3 or 4 years ago I watched Tyson Fury taking Sky round his caravan and telling them how every morning he likes to sit down to a full-English breakfast.
Don't give it to me with your arrogant crap that a trained Bolt couldn't compete in a boxing match - I keep saying trained - can you read? Usain Bolt is a vastly, vastly superior physical specimen to Tyson full-English breakfast Fury, so lay off it with the pompous horsesh*t Mr Expert.
And I'd like to reiterate also, I do like Fury and hoped he would beat that other arrogant person, David Haye. Get your high horse you idiot.

I always thought Naz could've become the best Matador on the planet.

Conversely, despite his impressive footwork I believe Bruce Forsyth would have been too prone to leaving his chin out to dry. And his rug ending up in Row Z.

mickey1975 wrote:

JimJim2009 wrote:All I know is a prime Seb Coe would have played with them both

With training, in the early 80's, he would have have given Alan Minter a good go.

no doubt

I think Fred Astaire with his amazing footwork could of beaten Roberto Duran if he had a few months training...

There's a section in the book about Billy Costello - Black Lights that goes into this fallacy in detail.

...and as for Ginger Rogers

As we've said before - and I agree with Stu and Matt W - he looks in terrible shape for a professional fighter, Xmas pud or no Xmas pud.

He may be world-ranked but that says more about how poor the division is than anything.

Fighters who start their careers fat and slobbish tend to end them the same way. I can't think of one who was overweight and lazy and retired ripped with good stamina.

stujones wrote:

Aden wrote:If you try and stay in fighting shape all year round, you'll never come close to your potential and you'll be far more susceptible to injuries. Plenty of NFL and NBA guys get fat in the off-season and cyclists like Bernard Hinault, Miguel Indurain and Jan Ulrich would tip-up at the start of a training block looking obese. We live in a culture where image is sold as everything, but that doesn't mean image actually is everything. Fighters boxing twice a year should peak on two days each year.

Agree, but you'd think that they would be athletic enough to not look like a middle age dad sprinting after their 3 year old kid on the beech.

Not expecting them to have a Mike Tyson esque training montage on every view, but would surely expect them to not look get so "normal". These are supposed to be among the elite athletes in the world.

And to actually put it on so the world can see. Maybe that's their intention.

I'm not talking about his gut, but how bloody slow he is. He is still a young man in his mid twenties and I suspect the majority of people in their mid 20's would look more impressive than that.

I'll be honest, I wouldn't have uploaded that video. That said, he's 6'9" and probably around 21/22 stone, doing sprints on an uneven beach, and we don't know how deep into the session they are. It's also at the start of camp. I've looked more of a mess than that in sessions when I was in sub-5 minute mile shape. What's more, athleticism is overrated in boxing.

Are they on the beach in Tenerife?

Also Remember the wrestler Rollerball Rocco he has a son who is a pro boxer out of tenerfie hasnt he???

That video is just plain embarassing.

'The 21st century fighter is a well oiled fighting machine benefiting from the large knowledge pool gathered from decades of experience in the ring.
This video is a shining example of a fitness regime specifically tailored to suit the individual talents of the each boxer focussing on his weaknesses.

n1ebf wrote:

mickey1975 wrote:

damianhucker1 wrote:one thing for sure is Usain Bolt wont be worried haha.

He would if Tyson clouted him.... He's a boxer not a sprinter.

Sorry, but I reckon if Usain had any type of basic grounding in boxing he could give Tyson a match. Usain Bolt is a 6ft 5inches tall powerhouse thoroughbred. He probably hasn't misplaced a calorie in 10-15years. He's not going to get in there and get tired. If someone taught Usain for a few months I reckon you'd have something, guaranteed.

Would apply to a lot of other sports but certainly not Boxing.

The fact the Fury boys wouldn't make it anywhere near any sort of level in any other non-combat sport, surely shows that? They aren't the most athletic chaps in the world.

Bolt might be very athletic and be in great shape ( from what we can see, remember, sprinting is pretty one dimensional, I suspect his stamina isn't the greatest and certainly not suited to a 12 round fight with someone like Fury, that just sounds silly actually! ) but doesn't guarantee a thing when it comes to boxing. Same reason why its horseshit that the recent great heavyweights have all been lost to NFL etc, being the best sprinter or strongest in the gym doesn't mean eff all when it comes to Boxing. I always argue that more natural boxing talent is on show in a tennis match ( you know, hand eye coordination and great footwork ) than you ever see on an NFL pitch.

I never see Lennox Lewis on the US superstars but the fact he seemingly showed himself up again proves this.

Plenty of athletes from the NFL etc who would fit your criteria of being 'superior' physical specimens have made the bid to cross over. Few have succeeded despite their strength, fitness etc. That should tell you something:

http://www.thesweetscience.com/news/art ... ond-career