While I've got huge respect for Flowers, and understand he was a great fighter, I would never make up quotes from him to rubbish another great fighter.
Why do you do that, all the time, Il Duce?
Tiger Flowers ~ "Harry Greb's Nemesis"
Re: Tiger Flowers ~ 'I'm Better Than Harry Greb'
Il Duce wrote:December 23, 1925
Flowers, with a record of 95-11-4 {49 KO's} has been criticized
for his 'boring style', but he is a very good boxer and frustrates his opponents with his 'cat-and-mouse' moves
from the left-handed stance.
Shows you know nothing about Flowers. He was a fast moving, slapping, volume puncher. There was nothing boring or "cat and mouse" about him. He was basically a black, left handed Greb. Boring, black, southpaws dont make it anywhere near a title a fight in the 1920s.
Re: Tiger Flowers ~ 'I'm Better Than Harry Greb'
Il Duce wrote:Boring-In Style, not 'boring style'.klompton wrote:Il Duce wrote:December 23, 1925
Flowers, with a record of 95-11-4 {49 KO's} has been criticized
for his 'boring style', but he is a very good boxer and frustrates his opponents with his 'cat-and-mouse' moves
from the left-handed stance.
Shows you know nothing about Flowers. He was a fast moving, slapping, volume puncher. There was nothing boring or "cat and mouse" about him. He was basically a black, left handed Greb. Boring, black, southpaws dont make it anywhere near a title a fight in the 1920s.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= ... 2F8CW4NaCA
Your words not mine.
Re: Tiger Flowers ~ "Harry Greb's Nemesis"
The Flowers v Mc Tigue fight was a split decision, with referee Eddie Purdy scoring the fight for Flowers.
Re: Tiger Flowers ~ "Harry Greb's Nemesis"
what a moron. Jack Delaney was a middleweight when he knocked Flowers out. He moved up to lhw to avoid a fight with Greb. He was such a small lhw that when he tried to move up and fight hws the nysac attempted to prevent him from it to protect him . there was a 1.5 pd diff. between them flowers outweighed him in the second. flowers had fought the majority of his career at lhw. delaney had fought the majority of his career as a mw. get your "facts" straight. or better yet quit making it up as you go along.
Re: Tiger Flowers ~ "Harry Greb's Nemesis"
Il duce is a mad man, an incredibly delusional man. I suggest you help up get rid of him here since he
has been making up quotes and lying about many fighters (particularly Ali who he keeps on calling Cassius)
for years. He was already banned from many forums and I don't understand why he is still allowed
to keep posting here.
He basically tries his best to write fictions about fan favourite fighters and sadly because of your devotion
Greb becomes his toy for this month. He won't stop because for him credibility means nothing,
and he is satisfied with spilling lies so some casuals can join him in his hate bandwagon.
has been making up quotes and lying about many fighters (particularly Ali who he keeps on calling Cassius)
for years. He was already banned from many forums and I don't understand why he is still allowed
to keep posting here.
He basically tries his best to write fictions about fan favourite fighters and sadly because of your devotion
Greb becomes his toy for this month. He won't stop because for him credibility means nothing,
and he is satisfied with spilling lies so some casuals can join him in his hate bandwagon.
Re: Tiger Flowers ~ "Harry Greb's Nemesis"
If Delaney moved up to lhw from mw in march 1923 then why was Delaney considered the top contender for Greb until May of 1924 when he lost an upset against Bryan Downey? Why was he still considered as the logical contender for Greb in June 1924 when he was signed to face Greb for the Milk Fund bout before ultimately pulling out and being replaced by Ted Moore? Why were both Delaney-Flowers fights (January and February 1925) promoted as title eliminators to Greb. Why was Delaney considered Greb's #1 contender until April 1925 when Greb went to New York to arrange a fight with him only to be told by Tex Rickard "he wants nothing to do with you" resulting in Greb signing to fight with Humbert Fugazy against Mickey Walker instead???
Delaney was essentially Greb's #1 contender until the summer of 1925 when he set his sights firmly on Paul Berlenbach. He figured Berlenbach was an easier path to a championship since he already knocked him out once and Berlenbach had just defeated timid Mike McTigue for the championship. Flowers had been eliminated from any claim as the top contender by Delaney and as such Greb chased Delaney for much of 1925 looking for a big money fight. When Delaney fought Berlenbach in Dec of 1925 for the title (coming off a layoff and recovering from surgery and blood poisoning) Greb was on hand to challenge the winner and had been promised a shot. That promise by Rickard was reneged on because Rickard knew that Greb would defeat his current favorite (Berlenbach) and had basically conned Greb with the promise into showing up as a possible last minute sub for Delaney in case Jack couldnt pass the physical (such was his condition at the time and the reason why Berlenbach managed to beat him the only time out of their four fights).
When Greb lost out on that big fight he was desperate for a big payday. Greb wasnt hunting a Tunney fight in early 1926 as a means of avoiding Flowers as Douche suggests. Greb was approached by Miami promoters about a sixth fight with Tunney and readily agreed. He never heard anything back from promoters and found out via the newspapers that Tunney had instead selected the less challenging Young Stribling as an opponent but even scrapped that fight when he became the front runner for a title shot against Dempsey. When Tiger Flowers lost the criminal decision to McTigue the NYSAC salved his wounds by declaring that Greb would be forced to fight Flowers or his title would be declared vacant (thinking that Greb would duck Flowers) instead Greb, true to form, jumped at the fight and literally hopped on the first train from Pittsburgh to New York to sign articles the instant he was notified of NYSAC's announcement.
Greb, rather than being intimidated by Flowers, took him lightly, figuring that if Jack Delaney (who had avoided Greb numerous times) could stop Flowers then Greb could as well. He was so lax in his training that he neglected to even have a single southpaw sparring partner in camp (it was stated in Bill Paxton's book that he did but he did not). Instead he opted to have sparring partner George Courtney try to box southpaw with him but every time Greb unloaded on him Courtney would switch back to his more comfortable orthodox stance in order to better defend himself. As a result Greb turned in one of the worst performances of his career and still Flowers only managed to eek out a decision.
Those are cold hard facts based upon a mountain of research conducted over what is likely Il Douche's lifetime (given that he shares the same intellectual development as a 12 year old), not garbage I cobbled together from a quick glance at a wire report I found on Google and some fabricated quotes, and even fabricated articles by fabricated journalists.
Delaney was essentially Greb's #1 contender until the summer of 1925 when he set his sights firmly on Paul Berlenbach. He figured Berlenbach was an easier path to a championship since he already knocked him out once and Berlenbach had just defeated timid Mike McTigue for the championship. Flowers had been eliminated from any claim as the top contender by Delaney and as such Greb chased Delaney for much of 1925 looking for a big money fight. When Delaney fought Berlenbach in Dec of 1925 for the title (coming off a layoff and recovering from surgery and blood poisoning) Greb was on hand to challenge the winner and had been promised a shot. That promise by Rickard was reneged on because Rickard knew that Greb would defeat his current favorite (Berlenbach) and had basically conned Greb with the promise into showing up as a possible last minute sub for Delaney in case Jack couldnt pass the physical (such was his condition at the time and the reason why Berlenbach managed to beat him the only time out of their four fights).
When Greb lost out on that big fight he was desperate for a big payday. Greb wasnt hunting a Tunney fight in early 1926 as a means of avoiding Flowers as Douche suggests. Greb was approached by Miami promoters about a sixth fight with Tunney and readily agreed. He never heard anything back from promoters and found out via the newspapers that Tunney had instead selected the less challenging Young Stribling as an opponent but even scrapped that fight when he became the front runner for a title shot against Dempsey. When Tiger Flowers lost the criminal decision to McTigue the NYSAC salved his wounds by declaring that Greb would be forced to fight Flowers or his title would be declared vacant (thinking that Greb would duck Flowers) instead Greb, true to form, jumped at the fight and literally hopped on the first train from Pittsburgh to New York to sign articles the instant he was notified of NYSAC's announcement.
Greb, rather than being intimidated by Flowers, took him lightly, figuring that if Jack Delaney (who had avoided Greb numerous times) could stop Flowers then Greb could as well. He was so lax in his training that he neglected to even have a single southpaw sparring partner in camp (it was stated in Bill Paxton's book that he did but he did not). Instead he opted to have sparring partner George Courtney try to box southpaw with him but every time Greb unloaded on him Courtney would switch back to his more comfortable orthodox stance in order to better defend himself. As a result Greb turned in one of the worst performances of his career and still Flowers only managed to eek out a decision.
Those are cold hard facts based upon a mountain of research conducted over what is likely Il Douche's lifetime (given that he shares the same intellectual development as a 12 year old), not garbage I cobbled together from a quick glance at a wire report I found on Google and some fabricated quotes, and even fabricated articles by fabricated journalists.
Re: Tiger Flowers ~ "Harry Greb's Nemesis"
cripes Klompton, I feel your pain. You break your back researching to bring some light to the distant past, and all a fella like Bag-O-Douche has to do is make up a quick bullshit story...and back into the fog we all go.
It's not illegal, it's not against any of the rules. The ONLY good thing it brings out is that people need to be prepared in this day and age to be GOOD bullshit detectors.
I can't ban him for his nonsense, but I can take any of his crap out of your thread that you wish me to.
I wish I could somehow equate this with yelling fire in a crowded theater, but alas....it harms no one.
Though it's possible it confuses many.
It's not illegal, it's not against any of the rules. The ONLY good thing it brings out is that people need to be prepared in this day and age to be GOOD bullshit detectors.
I can't ban him for his nonsense, but I can take any of his crap out of your thread that you wish me to.
I wish I could somehow equate this with yelling fire in a crowded theater, but alas....it harms no one.
Though it's possible it confuses many.
Re: Tiger Flowers ~ "Harry Greb's Nemesis"
Greb never beat Flowers? Dont tell that to the vast majority of ringsiders at their first fight.
Delaney wasnt a middleweight because he won a LHW title? Go tell that to the multitude of guys who did just that.
Delaney never ran from Greb? Then explain the four guaranteed fights that he had signed sealed and delivered that he backed out of. Explain why Greb took numerous trips to New York to try to negotiate the match only for Delaney to look the other way.
Lets suppose that Greb couldnt beat Flowers and Delaney could (not true but lets pretend we are living in El Douche's world. Delaney couldnt beat Bryan Downey, who beat the living piss out of him several months after Greb beat Downey so bad that he temporarily retired. Delaney couldnt beat Tommy Robson who Greb beat numerous times. Delaney got knocked out in 1 round by Augie Ratner, who Greb dominated more than once. Delaney was knocked down five times and stopped by Young Fisher who Greb dominated half a dozen times. Delaney lost to Jimmy Slattery twice who Greb defeated just a month earlier. Delaney got a gift split decision against Allentown Joe Gans who Greb defeated easily when he was WAY past his prime.
So yeah. Greb easily comes out far ahead in a comparison of how each did against common opponents.
Delaney wasnt a middleweight because he won a LHW title? Go tell that to the multitude of guys who did just that.
Delaney never ran from Greb? Then explain the four guaranteed fights that he had signed sealed and delivered that he backed out of. Explain why Greb took numerous trips to New York to try to negotiate the match only for Delaney to look the other way.
Lets suppose that Greb couldnt beat Flowers and Delaney could (not true but lets pretend we are living in El Douche's world. Delaney couldnt beat Bryan Downey, who beat the living piss out of him several months after Greb beat Downey so bad that he temporarily retired. Delaney couldnt beat Tommy Robson who Greb beat numerous times. Delaney got knocked out in 1 round by Augie Ratner, who Greb dominated more than once. Delaney was knocked down five times and stopped by Young Fisher who Greb dominated half a dozen times. Delaney lost to Jimmy Slattery twice who Greb defeated just a month earlier. Delaney got a gift split decision against Allentown Joe Gans who Greb defeated easily when he was WAY past his prime.
So yeah. Greb easily comes out far ahead in a comparison of how each did against common opponents.
Re: Tiger Flowers ~ "Harry Greb's Nemesis"
klompton you're arguing with Il Duce with facts...he doesn't respond to facts. He pulls them out of his ass every time he talks.
The guy is a joke, and shouldn't be taken the least bit serious by anybody.
The guy is a joke, and shouldn't be taken the least bit serious by anybody.
Re: Tiger Flowers ~ "Harry Greb's Nemesis"
The lads who normally talk about his "great research" and urge him to post his semi-literate rubbish seem to have gone quiet...gilgamesh wrote: The guy is a joke, and shouldn't be taken the least bit serious by anybody.
Re: Tiger Flowers ~ "Harry Greb's Nemesis"
BoxBuzz wrote:cripes Klompton, I feel your pain. You break your back researching to bring some light to the distant past, and all a fella like Bag-O-Douche has to do is make up a quick bullshit story...and back into the fog we all go.
It's not illegal, it's not against any of the rules. The ONLY good thing it brings out is that people need to be prepared in this day and age to be GOOD bullshit detectors.
I can't ban him for his nonsense, but I can take any of his crap out of your thread that you wish me to.
I wish I could somehow equate this with yelling fire in a crowded theater, but alas....it harms no one.
Though it's possible it confuses many.
I don't get it. You can't ban him for posting lie after lie about boxers of the past? Making up fantasy quotes as if he was a boxing insider...it's strange.
Re: Tiger Flowers ~ "Harry Greb's Nemesis"
Where did reporters "suddenly" start saying Greb seemed to be a very weak puncher. Greb was always a guy who didnt sit down on his punches, opting instead for speed over power. Once again, a made up "quote." Anyone who came up and wrote that "Greb doesnt seem like he can punch anymore" would have been laughed at as being a clueless neophyte, which of course the person who made that quote up was: El Douche.
Re: Tiger Flowers ~ "Harry Greb's Nemesis"
Il Duce wrote:Harry Greb
Who was angling for bouts with Gene Tunney and Jimmy Slattery, still had hopes of fighting Jack Dempsey
as well.
February 18, 1926
'Harry Greb Shows Good Sense By Fighting Often'
Harry Greb is now in New York, getting ready to defend his Middleweight Championship against the
dangerous Tiger Flowers.
Greb, who usually gets $1500 per 'Pushover', and relies on a Newspaper Decision over a local John Palooka,
would rather fight once per week than training.
Harry Greb >
"One fight in the Ring, is worth 2-Weeks in the Gym. I do not depend on Training to get ready for a fight. I'd
rather do it in the Ring and fight my way into shape."
Re: Tiger Flowers ~ "Harry Greb's Nemesis"
Il Duce wrote:February 22, 1926
The Huntington Herald
'HARRY GREB SHOWS THE GOOD SENSE BY FIGHTING OFTEN'
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q= ... FvcH3m-8kg
Re: Tiger Flowers ~ "Harry Greb's Nemesis"
Jimmy Slattery was out of the running for a match with Greb after he lost to Berlenbach. He had a scheduled bout with Greb just a week or two after his bout with Berlenbach. Even after the loss promoters and Greb were eager to stage the match but Slattery withdrew and temporarily retired saying he needed to evaluate his career. He never again entertained a match with Greb. His next high profile fight would be a month after Greb lost the title, Slattery lost, and it was over a year later before he would have another important fight.
By the time the article you just linked to support your claim was published Greb was no longer being considered as an opponent for Tunney in Miami and without checking Stribling may have even been passed on in favor of staying inactive while Tunney waited for a shot at Dempsey.
You are in so far over head its comical.
By the time the article you just linked to support your claim was published Greb was no longer being considered as an opponent for Tunney in Miami and without checking Stribling may have even been passed on in favor of staying inactive while Tunney waited for a shot at Dempsey.
You are in so far over head its comical.
Re: Tiger Flowers ~ "Harry Greb's Nemesis"
Hey Duceroono.......which Greb Flowers thread do you want to keep open?
If you don't pick one I will, I'll even put a hyper link to the other...so that no imaginings will be lost in the process.
If you don't pick one I will, I'll even put a hyper link to the other...so that no imaginings will be lost in the process.
Re: Tiger Flowers ~ "Harry Greb's Nemesis"
BoxBuzz wrote:Hey Duceroono.......which Greb Flowers thread do you want to keep open?
If you don't pick one I will, I'll even put a hyper link to the other...so that no imaginings will be lost in the process.
Why preserve unwanted works of fiction? Just curious....