BoxRec

Anzi wrote:

WelshJack wrote:Gavin needs big fights to get used to world class talent before fighting for a world title, his best win is either Vassell or Woodhouse ffs.

I agree

How many fighters fight world class opposition b4 a world title shot. Yes frankie needs moving on vassell was an unbeaten commonwealth champ and he took him apart. He sud b looking at the european title but with the current champ being tied up and no one prepared to fight for british fg is stuck. After this keep busy fight fw sud move him on for a euro shot. Also the comment about fg not selling tickets hasn't a clue. The welborn fight sold out a month just a shame they cudnt get a bigger venue I know lots of people who cudnt get tickets. I think fw will b putting more shows in brum with gavin headlining his looking and has signed some more midlands talent of late also he works with errol johnson (local promoter) for supporting undercards.

expe wrote:

mullenman wrote:frankie has a personality of a paper bag and dont sell no tickets and will find it hard to get a big fight

He's fought twice in Birmingham, for his debut he sold 1,000, then 750 on the Magnificent 7 show, plus 300 when he fought in Belfast and the Welborn fight last year sold out a month before.

I think he means for a headliner on a big show, not a small show, if he sold a few more thousand, he would get a quality opponent in Birmingham, the maximum you quoted would come to say, £40,000 on standard tickets, Gavin is getting near that per fight with his own purse alone, then to bring over a world ranked fighter and his team may cost just as much again and that was based on tickets for his much awaited debut, with the Olympians on a big show, with a main event, bearing in mind for the british title against Junior Witter he sold around 200 tickets, how much does Bellew sell when he tops the bill in Liverpool ? What about Kell Brook in Sheffield ? He needs help in this department, Hearn did it with Brook.

Anzi wrote:

expe wrote:

mullenman wrote:frankie has a personality of a paper bag and dont sell no tickets and will find it hard to get a big fight

He's fought twice in Birmingham, for his debut he sold 1,000, then 750 on the Magnificent 7 show, plus 300 when he fought in Belfast and the Welborn fight last year sold out a month before.

I think he means for a headliner on a big show, not a small show, if he sold a few more thousand, he would get a quality opponent in Birmingham, the maximum you quoted would come to say, £40,000 on standard tickets, Gavin is getting near that per fight with his own purse alone, then to bring over a world ranked fighter and his team may cost just as much again and that was based on tickets for his much awaited debut, with the Olympians on a big show, with a main event, bearing in mind for the british title against Junior Witter he sold around 200 tickets, how much does Bellew sell when he tops the bill in Liverpool ? What about Kell Brook in Sheffield ? He needs help in this department, Hearn did it with Brook.

U make some good points but wen brook and bellew top a show look at the depth of the cards for local ticket sellers example fielding and smith always sell on every bellew card.. Matchroom hav a big pool of fighters from around the same area. Liverpool manchester sheffield all not that far to travel. Currently fw only has frankie from brum. So is for example mitchell smith gunna sell loads of tickets to fight in brum wen his from london no. That's why frankie hasn't had many local shows.

Yes Maley, that is true as well, you do need a good card, Gavin had that with the 2 cards he sold most of his tickets from, understand your points on Bellew's liverpool cards, plenty of ticket sellers, not so sure Kell's has been as good though, a lot was down to the marketing of Brook by Hearn, Warrren can still make a bigger fight for Gavin, with fighters that are not so high priced, these are some I have found ranked above Gavin, under different organisations :

Chris Van Heeden South Africa
Randall Bailey USA
Antonin Decarie Canada
Aslanbek Kozaev Russia
Bethal Ushona Nambia
Dan lon Romania
Kevin Bizler Canada

And Khan and Brook who would sell tickets themselves.

Yes khan and brook wud sell its a massive domestic fight but like frankie said brook is mandatory for ibf so for brook to take the fight with fg wud b stupid fg brings nothing to the table. Khan has eyes on bigger fights but may hav to set his sight lower. Once again fg brings nothing to the table to progress khan Career if he won and if he lost where wud he go. In both fights gavin has everything to gain. Also u hav the problem of hearn and warren possibley working together never. Not sure wat fw relationship is like with khan. I do agree with your list he sud b looking at any one those guys.

I have heard Khan as agreed to fight Broner on the undercard of Mayweather/Maidana, if so great news for boxing, great fight.

expe wrote:

mullenman wrote:frankie has a personality of a paper bag and dont sell no tickets and will find it hard to get a big fight

He's fought twice in Birmingham, for his debut he sold 1,000, then 750 on the Magnificent 7 show, plus 300 when he fought in Belfast and the Welborn fight last year sold out a month before.

They are awful number of tickets sold for as people call him "one of the most talented fighters in the UK". Them numbers mean as Anzi put it that promoters are losing money on this guy from ticket sales and will never be able to bring over a world class opponent. There is more people at white collar boxing fights than Frankie fights. I do wish Frankie well but he has to be more outgoing to sell more tickets as then his opposition will get better. He had a great opportunity on Ringside to make more fans and was a bit shy. If he is shy, then he should do something out of the normal and try a and get himself a big fight like Haye done with Wlad in the shopping centre. Frankie you can contact me anytime and ill come up with a plan for you.

mullenman wrote:

expe wrote:

mullenman wrote:frankie has a personality of a paper bag and dont sell no tickets and will find it hard to get a big fight

He's fought twice in Birmingham, for his debut he sold 1,000, then 750 on the Magnificent 7 show, plus 300 when he fought in Belfast and the Welborn fight last year sold out a month before.

They are awful number of tickets sold for as people call him "one of the most talented fighters in the UK". Them numbers mean as Anzi put it that promoters are losing money on this guy from ticket sales and will never be able to bring over a world class opponent. There is more people at white collar boxing fights than Frankie fights. I do wish Frankie well but he has to be more outgoing to sell more tickets as then his opposition will get better. He had a great opportunity on Ringside to make more fans and was a bit shy. If he is shy, then he should do something out of the normal and try a and get himself a big fight like Haye done with Wlad in the shopping centre. Frankie you can contact me anytime and ill come up with a plan for you.

I doubt Kell was selling that much till not that long ago. Slightly arrogant by the way. Are you Don King in disguise?

My worry, even with a talented boxer such as Frankie, is that fighting all these nobodies will only set him up for a beating when he jumps up in class as he's now so used to a certain level. It doesn't always work that way but I see the same thing in football when a talented young English player gets loaned from a Prem team to maybe a League 1 or Championship team and spends too much time there getting used to that level and then struggles to make the leap up to top level. I know boxing doesn't compare to football but I think the point is valid

danamba7 wrote:My worry, even with a talented boxer such as Frankie, is that fighting all these nobodies will only set him up for a beating when he jumps up in class as he's now so used to a certain level. It doesn't always work that way but I see the same thing in football when a talented young English player gets loaned from a Prem team to maybe a League 1 or Championship team and spends too much time there getting used to that level and then struggles to make the leap up to top level. I know boxing doesn't compare to football but I think the point is valid

You are right though, you have to go up in class, stage by stage, to get used to each level first, before you progress further, then you are guaranteed to be ready, this process is par for the course.

Pugilist-specialist wrote:

expe wrote:

Frankie Gavin wrote:No one in Britain would take the fight, brook got offered the fight but fair enough he has a world title shot on the horizon bundu is booked up on April 12 th I have been promised a big fight in June maybe earlier in the midlands.. An I would fight khan or brook next if offered an I agree it's time to step up!

I'm guessing the plan is to fight Ushona in a final eliminator in the summer and because Sacky's WBO #14 he's got the fight to position you for the final eliminator.

So why claim that Brook was offered the fight?

Maybe he was offered it, but when he turned it down, they went down a different route, it's called a Plan B, something that seems to be alien to Kell, unless you count trying to get the Khan fight.

mullenman wrote:

expe wrote:

mullenman wrote:frankie has a personality of a paper bag and dont sell no tickets and will find it hard to get a big fight

He's fought twice in Birmingham, for his debut he sold 1,000, then 750 on the Magnificent 7 show, plus 300 when he fought in Belfast and the Welborn fight last year sold out a month before.

They are awful number of tickets sold for as people call him "one of the most talented fighters in the UK". Them numbers mean as Anzi put it that promoters are losing money on this guy from ticket sales and will never be able to bring over a world class opponent. There is more people at white collar boxing fights than Frankie fights. I do wish Frankie well but he has to be more outgoing to sell more tickets as then his opposition will get better. He had a great opportunity on Ringside to make more fans and was a bit shy. If he is shy, then he should do something out of the normal and try a and get himself a big fight like Haye done with Wlad in the shopping centre. Frankie you can contact me anytime and ill come up with a plan for you.

Selling 1,000 tickets for a debut is awful? Then 750 the next time he fought in Birmingham, with Macklin on the card, which is bound to knock the sales down because I believe they come from the same area and sell tickets to similar groups of people. 300 tickets sold for a 4 round fight hundreds of miles away to most people would be considered excellent and the one time he topped the bill close to home it sold out a month before. Since when are there more people at white collar shows than when Frankie boxes? They sell tickets for £20 to start with and I doubt any are in venues the sort of size that Frankie's fought in. As for the suggestion that you could come up with a plan for Frankie, I'm sorry, but what the fornicate do you know about boxing? If you think selling 1,000 for a 4 rounder is awful then I doubt you're the man to plot his future, especially when compared to allegedly's 30+ years of experience in boxing. What would be good ticket sales for those fights?

They are awful number of tickets sold for as people call him "one of the most talented fighters in the UK". Them numbers mean as Anzi put it that promoters are losing money on this guy from ticket sales and will never be able to bring over a world class opponent. There is more people at white collar boxing fights than Frankie fights. I do wish Frankie well but he has to be more outgoing to sell more tickets as then his opposition will get better. He had a great opportunity on Ringside to make more fans and was a bit shy. If he is shy, then he should do something out of the normal and try a and get himself a big fight like Haye done with Wlad in the shopping centre. Frankie you can contact me anytime and ill come up with a plan for you.[/quote]

In Johnny Nelson's biography, he explains an excruciatingly embarrassing attempt at this - at Brendan's prompting, he gate-crashed a Carl Thompson (reigning WBO champ at the time) press conference. The idea was to march in like Stone Cold Steve Austin but it didn't really work, he kicked open the door at the back of the room, knocked over a chair or two, and shouted something. Carl ignored him and the press just briefly looked back and then carried on as before, leaving Johnny stood there like a twat !

expe wrote:
So why claim that Brook was offered the fight?

Maybe he was offered it, but when he turned it down, they went down a different route, it's called a Plan B, something that seems to be alien to Kell, unless you count trying to get the Khan fight.[/quote]

If you want to believe that every British welterweight turned down a spot on the Newcastle undercard fair enough. Do you think that Witter was offered as much as Khan and Brook because Frankie won't tell us.

These forums are full of top accountants, legal advisers & fans that seem to know more than us involved in the sport with people's purses, business side, offers, ticket sales, events etc.

I think its amazing, your all wasted talents sitting on these forums

Boxingcutsman wrote:These forums are full of top accountants, legal advisers & fans that seem to know more than us involved in the sport with people's purses, ticket sales, events etc.

I think its amazing, your all wasted talents sitting on these forums

Dont categorize us all in the same way!

Boxingcutsman wrote:These forums are full of top accountants, legal advisers & fans that seem to know more than us involved in the sport with people's purses, business side, offers, ticket sales, events etc.

I think its amazing, your all wasted talents sitting on these forums

Though all of the top talents involved in boxing on the business side do it for their own ends and not for the bouts fans want to see.

palooka wrote:

Boxingcutsman wrote:These forums are full of top accountants, legal advisers & fans that seem to know more than us involved in the sport with people's purses, business side, offers, ticket sales, events etc.

I think its amazing, your all wasted talents sitting on these forums

Though all of the top talents involved in boxing on the business side do it for their own ends and not for the bouts fans want to see.

I think you'll find it's more the promoters than the fighters that don't care what the fans really want to see

Though all of the top talents involved in boxing on the business side do it for their own ends and not for the bouts fans want to see.[/quote]


I think you'll find it's more the promoters than the fighters that don't care what the fans really want to see[/quote]

My comment wasn't aimed at the boxers, most of them would box at the drop of a hat, more the people that work for the promoters in their various guises.

Pugilist-specialist wrote: If you want to believe that every British welterweight turned down a spot on the Newcastle undercard fair enough. Do you think that Witter was offered as much as Khan and Brook because Frankie won't tell us.

Why would he fight Junior Witter again? He beat him comfortably last time round, Witter's never been in a good fight and the first was a bit of a stinker. No reason to go over old ground against a 40 year old who's lost his only fight since. If you look down the list of fighters available, Frankie's already beaten Witter, Vassell and Barnes, Foot's injured, Watson hasn't fought for a year, Purdy's in Prizefighter, Theophane's fighting in the US now, O'Donnell has fought 4 times in the 3 years since he lost to Watson, the last of those a 4 rounder in July, Skeete doesn't want it, Lynes was beaten by Skeete and Witter, Gaynor turned it down, Patterson's fighting against a lad who's had 4 fights for a masters strap tomorrow, Singleton's heading down the international route it seems, must be desperate to protect that 0, especially after Curtis should have taken it and Miles is a waste of time, that doesn't really leave many options.

expe wrote:

Pugilist-specialist wrote: If you want to believe that every British welterweight turned down a spot on the Newcastle undercard fair enough. Do you think that Witter was offered as much as Khan and Brook because Frankie won't tell us.

Why would he fight Junior Witter again? He beat him comfortably last time round, Witter's never been in a good fight and the first was a bit of a stinker. No reason to go over old ground against a 40 year old who's lost his only fight since. If you look down the list of fighters available, Frankie's already beaten Witter, Vassell and Barnes, Foot's injured, Watson hasn't fought for a year, Purdy's in Prizefighter, Theophane's fighting in the US now, O'Donnell has fought 4 times in the 3 years since he lost to Watson, the last of those a 4 rounder in July, Skeete doesn't want it, Lynes was beaten by Skeete and Witter, Gaynor turned it down, Patterson's fighting against a lad who's had 4 fights for a masters strap tomorrow, Singleton's heading down the international route it seems, must be desperate to protect that 0, especially after Curtis should have taken it and Miles is a waste of time, that doesn't really leave many options.

Witter was robbed last time out and was in some good fights; he is past his best and needs an attacking boxer to show what he can do. I'd not want to watch Gavin v Witter 2 to be honest but Witter deserves more respect in my opinion though I can imagine why he wasn't offered the same rate as Brook or Khan.

Boxingcutsman wrote:These forums are full of top accountants, legal advisers & fans that seem to know more than us involved in the sport with people's purses, business side, offers, ticket sales, events etc.

I think its amazing, your all wasted talents sitting on these forums

You're involved with Frankie so why not enlighten us on how much Witter, Khan and Brook were offered for the slot on the Newcastle undercard.

Khan and Brook are headline fighters; Witter is not a short end opponent, they wouldn't be chuffed being offered owt to be on a provincial undercard - it's to get a headline.

expe wrote:

Pugilist-specialist wrote: If you want to believe that every British welterweight turned down a spot on the Newcastle undercard fair enough. Do you think that Witter was offered as much as Khan and Brook because Frankie won't tell us.

Why would he fight Junior Witter again? He beat him comfortably last time round, Witter's never been in a good fight and the first was a bit of a stinker. No reason to go over old ground against a 40 year old who's lost his only fight since. If you look down the list of fighters available, Frankie's already beaten Witter, Vassell and Barnes, Foot's injured, Watson hasn't fought for a year, Purdy's in Prizefighter, Theophane's fighting in the US now, O'Donnell has fought 4 times in the 3 years since he lost to Watson, the last of those a 4 rounder in July, Skeete doesn't want it, Lynes was beaten by Skeete and Witter, Gaynor turned it down, Patterson's fighting against a lad who's had 4 fights for a masters strap tomorrow, Singleton's heading down the international route it seems, must be desperate to protect that 0, especially after Curtis should have taken it and Miles is a waste of time, that doesn't really leave many options.

How much do you think that Khan and Brook were offered for the slot on the Newcastle undercard?

expe wrote:

Pugilist-specialist wrote: If you want to believe that every British welterweight turned down a spot on the Newcastle undercard fair enough. Do you think that Witter was offered as much as Khan and Brook because Frankie won't tell us.

Why would he fight Junior Witter again? He beat him comfortably last time round, Witter's never been in a good fight and the first was a bit of a stinker. No reason to go over old ground against a 40 year old who's lost his only fight since. If you look down the list of fighters available, Frankie's already beaten Witter, Vassell and Barnes, Foot's injured, Watson hasn't fought for a year, Purdy's in Prizefighter, Theophane's fighting in the US now, O'Donnell has fought 4 times in the 3 years since he lost to Watson, the last of those a 4 rounder in July, Skeete doesn't want it, Lynes was beaten by Skeete and Witter, Gaynor turned it down, Patterson's fighting against a lad who's had 4 fights for a masters strap tomorrow, Singleton's heading down the international route it seems, must be desperate to protect that 0, especially after Curtis should have taken it and Miles is a waste of time, that doesn't really leave many options.

To say that Witter has never been in a good fight is untrue.
Witter fought poorly against Gavin but would jump at the chance of another title shot. To suggest that no British fighter would accept the fight is simply untrue. Witter is ranked 78 places above Shikukutu on boxrec.