BoxRec

I'm not 100‰ certain, Duran was great enough to take a victory, but I believe Robinson would prevail. I believe that if Leonard could go head to head with Duran and have it as close as it was, Robinson could finish the job. I believe that if Tommy, a great boxer and great offensive fighter, could beat him up, Robinson, greater in every way but absolute KO power, could do so too. At lightweight, I'm not sure anyone beats Duran, though I'd love to see him against Whittaker. At welter, I think Robinson beats even the Duran who legitimately beat Leonard.

I'm not 100‰ certain, Duran was great enough to take a victory, but I believe Robinson would prevail. I believe that if Leonard could go head to head with Duran and have it as close as it was, Robinson could finish the job. I believe that if Tommy, a great boxer and great offensive fighter, could beat him up, Robinson, greater in every way but absolute KO power, could do so too. At lightweight, I'm not sure anyone beats Duran, though I'd love to see him against Whittaker. At welter, I think Robinson beats even the Duran who legitimately beat Leonard.

To me, Leonard and Duran beats Robinson at welter.

Robinson beats both of them above welterweight.

I have not seen Robinson beat someone as good as Duran or Leonard. The closest was the great Kid Gavilan, but, I DOUBT that Robinson won those two fights with him.

what? robinson's best weight was welter - there's no one to touch him at that weight. and here is why duran's chances of beating him are nil; at welter duran is fast but not fast enough. in the higher weights he is too small to make his lesser skill level count.

Not many people are better as they move up, and Robinson wasn't. Two of Duran's signature fights, the win over Barkley and the hard night he gave Hagler came at higher weights (I'd argue DeJesus and Leonard I being the others), but he wasn't the holy terror that he was at lightweight. The last time we saw the fury at its best was the first Leonard fight; after that, he was mostly not as good, and when he did come close (maybe only the Hagler fight) he was too small. I can imagine the Duran of Leonard I taking 3 out of 10 against Robinson, but that's the best I can do.

SamWise72 wrote:Not many people are better as they move up, and Robinson wasn't. Two of Duran's signature fights, the win over Barkley and the hard night he gave Hagler came at higher weights (I'd argue DeJesus and Leonard I being the others), but he wasn't the holy terror that he was at lightweight. The last time we saw the fury at its best was the first Leonard fight; after that, he was mostly not as good, and when he did come close (maybe only the Hagler fight) he was too small. I can imagine the Duran of Leonard I taking 3 out of 10 against Robinson, but that's the best I can do.

THAT IS A BUNCH OF HOGWASH. Robinson never fought AT WELTER someone of the skill, cleverness, fury and tenacity like the great Roberto Duran. Never fought someone of the skill and cleverness of the great Sugar Ray Leonard.

THE CLOSEST was the great Kid Gavilan. And I doubt that he won both fights.

misterpunch wrote:what? robinson's best weight was welter - there's no one to touch him at that weight. and here is why duran's chances of beating him are nil; at welter duran is fast but not fast enough. in the higher weights he is too small to make his lesser skill level count.

You sure NEVER saw Duran at his very best.

RAPIDFIRE wrote:

Bobbyptsd wrote:Who the hell looks at numbers like that in boxing anyway? "Duran has more KO's" Does someone who uses that as an argument like that even watch boxing?

Anyway, I'd go with Robinson, I guess. But I wouldn't be all that confident about it. The Duran who beat Leonard.....I don't know.

You can't be serious ..maybe people that are knowledgeable in boxing.. that's who the hell looks at numbers like that.
Lets see. My facts against your comments :"Anyway I'd go with Robinson, I guess" But I wouldn't be all that confident.
I'll stick with facts...You stick with I'm not sure what I just said. Great argument from someone that watches boxing

I'm glad you're so sure of your numbers, most people who watch boxing aren't, which is what I was alluding to.

another ill judged post from elmer. of course I saw duran at his best, and that was at lightweight. he is for me the best lightweight ever. but robinson is the best welter ever and then some - he is peerless in our sport. he beats duran every time and at any weight and any amount of smiley gizmos wont rescue you or him

elmersalsa wrote:

SamWise72 wrote:Not many people are better as they move up, and Robinson wasn't. Two of Duran's signature fights, the win over Barkley and the hard night he gave Hagler came at higher weights (I'd argue DeJesus and Leonard I being the others), but he wasn't the holy terror that he was at lightweight. The last time we saw the fury at its best was the first Leonard fight; after that, he was mostly not as good, and when he did come close (maybe only the Hagler fight) he was too small. I can imagine the Duran of Leonard I taking 3 out of 10 against Robinson, but that's the best I can do.

THAT IS A BUNCH OF HOGWASH. Robinson never fought AT WELTER someone of the skill, cleverness, fury and tenacity like the great Roberto Duran. Never fought someone of the skill and cleverness of the great Sugar Ray Leonard.

THE CLOSEST was the great Kid Gavilan. And I doubt that he won both fights.

How about Henry Armstrong? Robinson would beat Duran. Not saying it will be easy but I make Robinson the clear favorite.

I'll put my money on the Duran that beat Leonard in Montreal against ANY WELTERWEIGHT IN HISTORY, including Robinson.

It would be the a fight that Robinson would have to really fight at welterweight. He would have had to fight better than those Gavilan's fights, which I DOUBT he won.

elmersalsa wrote:I'll put my money on the Duran that beat Leonard in Montreal against ANY WELTERWEIGHT IN HISTORY, including Robinson.

It would be the a fight that Robinson would have to really fight at welterweight. He would have had to fight better than those Gavilan's fights, which I DOUBT he won.

You would put you money against Hearns too at welter? Hearns and Robinson would KO Duran every single time they fight.

Borinken25 wrote:

elmersalsa wrote:I'll put my money on the Duran that beat Leonard in Montreal against ANY WELTERWEIGHT IN HISTORY, including Robinson.

It would be the a fight that Robinson would have to really fight at welterweight. He would have had to fight better than those Gavilan's fights, which I DOUBT he won.

You would put you money against Hearns too at welter? Hearns and Robinson would KO Duran every single time they fight.

I think that's going a bit overboard, to put it mildly. Duran was a huge force at that weight and specific time. Just saying that certain fighters, even legends themselves, would just come in and KO him every time seems, like I said, overboard.

I hesitated on Robinson, and I'd have to hesitate on Hearns as well, if we are talking about the welter Duran who beat Leonard.

Yeah....and you can depend on the "certainty" That Barkley beats Hearns 100% of the time as well.

And that happens twice as often as Hearns beating Duran.

Shyt happens....but that don't mean it always does.

Pure Malarkey fresh off the fertilizer truck.

Borinken25 wrote:

elmersalsa wrote:I'll put my money on the Duran that beat Leonard in Montreal against ANY WELTERWEIGHT IN HISTORY, including Robinson.

It would be the a fight that Robinson would have to really fight at welterweight. He would have had to fight better than those Gavilan's fights, which I DOUBT he won.

You would put you money against Hearns too at welter? Hearns and Robinson would KO Duran every single time they fight.

This is where you LACK boxing expertise. Just because the great Thomas Hearns stopped the Hands of Stone at 154lbs does not mean that he would do the same trick at welter. It seems to me that you have never seen Duran at his very best.

Robinson has NEVER fought someone as clever and smart with the tenacity and durability of the Hands of Stone. Is a fight that he had to really figure out and dig deep.

I'll put my money on the Duran that beat Leonard with any version of Hearns at welter.

elmersalsa wrote:

SamWise72 wrote:Not many people are better as they move up, and Robinson wasn't. Two of Duran's signature fights, the win over Barkley and the hard night he gave Hagler came at higher weights (I'd argue DeJesus and Leonard I being the others), but he wasn't the holy terror that he was at lightweight. The last time we saw the fury at its best was the first Leonard fight; after that, he was mostly not as good, and when he did come close (maybe only the Hagler fight) he was too small. I can imagine the Duran of Leonard I taking 3 out of 10 against Robinson, but that's the best I can do.

THAT IS A BUNCH OF HOGWASH. Robinson never fought AT WELTER someone of the skill, cleverness, fury and tenacity like the great Roberto Duran. Never fought someone of the skill and cleverness of the great Sugar Ray Leonard.

THE CLOSEST was the great Kid Gavilan. And I doubt that he won both fights.

My point was that you said he would lose at welter, but win at middle. Duran had one truly great performance at welter, and Robinson was a lesser force at middle than he was at welter. Welter is the best Robinson, and Lightweight is fit best Duran. The Duran of Leonard I would be a great fight against peak Robinson, but I believe he'd lose. Duran of Leonard II and beyond, there's no question.

I think Robinson would either win a clear decision 9 rounds to 6, or 10 rounds to 5 or something. Or a late KO over Roberto. Would be an awesome fight though.

spot on gentlemen

SamWise72 wrote:

elmersalsa wrote:

SamWise72 wrote:Not many people are better as they move up, and Robinson wasn't. Two of Duran's signature fights, the win over Barkley and the hard night he gave Hagler came at higher weights (I'd argue DeJesus and Leonard I being the others), but he wasn't the holy terror that he was at lightweight. The last time we saw the fury at its best was the first Leonard fight; after that, he was mostly not as good, and when he did come close (maybe only the Hagler fight) he was too small. I can imagine the Duran of Leonard I taking 3 out of 10 against Robinson, but that's the best I can do.

THAT IS A BUNCH OF HOGWASH. Robinson never fought AT WELTER someone of the skill, cleverness, fury and tenacity like the great Roberto Duran. Never fought someone of the skill and cleverness of the great Sugar Ray Leonard.

THE CLOSEST was the great Kid Gavilan. And I doubt that he won both fights.

My point was that you said he would lose at welter, but win at middle. Duran had one truly great performance at welter, and Robinson was a lesser force at middle than he was at welter. Welter is the best Robinson, and Lightweight is fit best Duran. The Duran of Leonard I would be a great fight against peak Robinson, but I believe he'd lose. Duran of Leonard II and beyond, there's no question.

Duran had only one good performance at welter?

Robinson was not the most complete fighter ever. I don't think that Robinson ever fought a complete fighter in his life. At welter, I put my money on Duran or Leonard. They were more complete than Robinson

complete hogwash

misterpunch wrote:complete hogwash

Well, tell me what complete fighter Robinson beat?

Besides Gavilan, there is Randy Turpin. Sammy Angott wasn't a big puncher, but otherwise was a great all around fighter.
Tommy Bell was a very good all around fighter.

Ambling Alp II wrote:Besides Gavilan, there is Randy Turpin. Sammy Angott wasn't a big puncher, but otherwise was a great all around fighter.
Tommy Bell was a very good all around fighter.

As much as I like the great Kid Gavilan, he was not a complete fighter.
Randy Turpin was a good, but not a complete fighter.
Sammy Angott was not a complete fighter.
Tommy Bell? Are you serious?

So I think the answer is: Robinson NEVER BEAT A COMPLETE FIGHTER. The great Charley Burley was a complete fighter. Robinson did not fight him. The great Ezzard Charles was a complete fighter. SRR never even look Ezzard's way.

This is a guy that fought some brute guys that made him look good. That was it.