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Re: May 1, 1967 - WBA Strips Cassius Clay 'A Beautiful Gesture'

Posted: 23 Oct 2013, 15:59
by ThatOne
raylawpc wrote:
Il Duce wrote:Cassius Clay was 'not' stripped of his Title by the WBA because he refused to go to Vietnam.

Vietnam and the Viet Cong/North Vietnamese Army 'unfeeling murderers' had nothing to do with it.

It was based upon 'principal and order' - and Cassius Clay's lack of 'duty and honor'.

Cassius actually tried to make a deal, to send his brother Rudy Clay in his place for Military Duty.

What A Brother, What A Guy............

Do you have any proof that he wanted to send his brother?



We're still waiting for the proof...

Re: May 1, 1967 - WBA Strips Cassius Clay 'A Beautiful Gesture'

Posted: 23 Oct 2013, 16:13
by SenorPipino
I too would be interested to see some legitimate link where Ali offered his brother to the draft in exchange for his own service.
It sounds preposterous and I'm certain it would be famously chronicaled in Ali's voluminous history if true.

Re: May 1, 1967 - WBA Strips Cassius Clay 'A Beautiful Gesture'

Posted: 23 Oct 2013, 16:23
by ThatOne
SenorPipino wrote:I too would be interested to see some legitimate link where Ali offered his brother to the draft in exchange for his own service.
It sounds preposterous and I'm certain it would be famously chronicaled in Ali's voluminous history if true.


Expect more dissembling from Il Bugiardo.

Re: May 1, 1967 - WBA Strips Cassius Clay 'A Beautiful Gesture'

Posted: 23 Oct 2013, 16:26
by SenorPipino
ThatOne wrote:
SenorPipino wrote:I too would be interested to see some legitimate link where Ali offered his brother to the draft in exchange for his own service.
It sounds preposterous and I'm certain it would be famously chronicaled in Ali's voluminous history if true.


Expect more dissembling from Il Bugiardo.
Some of these things, you just can't make up. Well, then again......

Re: May 1, 1967 - WBA Strips Cassius Clay 'A Beautiful Gesture'

Posted: 23 Oct 2013, 16:28
by ThatOne
SenorPipino wrote:
ThatOne wrote:
SenorPipino wrote:I too would be interested to see some legitimate link where Ali offered his brother to the draft in exchange for his own service.
It sounds preposterous and I'm certain it would be famously chronicaled in Ali's voluminous history if true.


Expect more dissembling from Il Bugiardo.
Some of these things, you just can't make up. Well, then again......

I said it before. He comes here to channel his inner Harry Potter.

Re: May 1, 1967 - WBA Strips Cassius Clay 'A Beautiful Gesture'

Posted: 23 Oct 2013, 16:32
by raylawpc
Il Duce wrote:Translation

Cassius Clay said if he could buy a few more F-15 Fighter Jets to stay out of serving in the Armed Services,

'he would have in a flash.'

He cared so little abut Vietnam, it's pathetic.

Joey Heatherton,,,,,,,,"That man is a spoiled child, talking like that from his Limousine."
Do you ever provide any sources for this stuff you write?

Re: May 1, 1967 - WBA Strips Cassius Clay 'A Beautiful Gesture'

Posted: 23 Oct 2013, 16:37
by raylawpc
ThatOne wrote:"The conscientious objector is a revolutionary. On deciding to disobey the law he sacrifices his personal interests to the most important cause of working for the betterment of society."


Albert Einstein
Nobel Prize Winner for Physics
I wonder what Albert (and Theodore) would have thought about this guy . . .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desmond_Doss

Re: May 1, 1967 - WBA Strips Cassius Clay 'A Beautiful Gesture'

Posted: 23 Oct 2013, 16:38
by ThatOne
raylawpc wrote:
Il Duce wrote:Translation

Cassius Clay said if he could buy a few more F-15 Fighter Jets to stay out of serving in the Armed Services,

'he would have in a flash.'

He cared so little abut Vietnam, it's pathetic.

Joey Heatherton,,,,,,,,"That man is a spoiled child, talking like that from his Limousine."
Do you ever provide any sources for this stuff you write?
The part about the F15s is partially true... Ali did say something along the lines of "why do they want me? I'm paying for one hundred fighter jets with my taxes." He didn't threaten to stop fighting and consequently deny the government of the taxes his purses provided. And the F15 wasn't produced until 1976.

The Heatherton quote is an outright lie.

Il Bugiardo is allergic to the truth.

Re: May 1, 1967 - WBA Strips Cassius Clay 'A Beautiful Gesture'

Posted: 23 Oct 2013, 16:45
by SenorPipino
Joey Heatherton. Now there's a reference from the long, dead past.

Even if she did say it, that wacko wasn't known for her credibility.

She ended up washed up and drugged out. I don't think her vapid opinions make much of a case.

Re: May 1, 1967 - WBA Strips Cassius Clay 'A Beautiful Gesture'

Posted: 23 Oct 2013, 16:49
by ThatOne
Image


Trials of Muhammad Ali' tracks champ's pacifism

It's hard to think of anyone in 2013 who doesn't like Muhammad Ali (Il Bugiardo doesn't). His reputation is secure as not only one of the greatest boxers ever, but as a person who has had an undeniable social influence on a global level.

And yet, as the new documentary "The Trials of Muhammad Ali" shows, the Ali of a half century ago was a controversial figure - hated by many Americans. (There's also a biopic, "Muhammad Ali's Greatest Fight" about the same subject matter currently showing on HBO.)

"There was a period where he was considered a villain in many sectors of society," said "Trials" director Bill Siegel. "What's changed is us and our response to him. I think he's a great prism to watch that transformation. He's at the intersection of the Black Panthers and freedom struggle and the anti-Vietnam War movement. He's right in the middle."

There is almost no boxing in this film. Instead, Siegel ("The Weather Underground") traces his subject's journey from Olympic champion Cassius Clay, pride of Louisville, Ky., to heavyweight champion - thanks partially to the backing of a group of old, white Louisville millionaires who helped guide his career - to his conversion to Islam, when he became Muhammad Ali.

"I don't have to be what you want me to be," he tells reporters after he beat Sonny Liston for the heavyweight title in 1964.

And indeed, he wasn't. Much of the film centers around his refusal to be drafted to fight in the Vietnam War - which got him banned from boxing and a five-year prison sentence (he remained free pending appeals) that took three years to be overturned by the Supreme Court.

"I ain't got no quarrel with the Viet Cong," Ali famously said. Also: "No, I will not go 10,000 miles to continue the domination of white slave masters over the darker people of the Earth."

Siegel tells Ali's story through the eyes of those who were there - brother Rahaman; then-wife, Khalilah Camacho-Ali; and Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan to name a few.

Siegel first met Ali in 1990, when he was working as a researcher on a documentary about Ali's boxing career. "One thing I'll never forget is how humble he seemed to be," Siegel said. "He just wanted to hang out in the research pit with us and do magic tricks."

When he decided to make a film about Ali's social struggles eight years ago, his first move was to get the blessing of Ali and current wife, Lonnie.

"It was clear that they understood that this was a film that had not been made that needed to be made," Siegel said. "Then I came back last fall and showed them a rough cut of the film. It was thrilling for me to watch Muhammad watch the film. He was entirely engaged and really seemed to be digging it. I have heard that Muhammad likes to do nothing more than watch stuff about Muhammad Ali. In a way, he's the easiest audience to please!"

Siegel said that although Ali is a fascinating figure, he hopes "The Trials of Muhammad Ali" resonates on a deeper level that has the audience thinking about their own lives.

"He demonstrated that it's possible to take a courageous, moral stand in the face of tremendous resistance - be willing to sacrifice fame and fortune - and win," Siegel said. "He's an extreme example of this, but we all have the capacity to decide who we are and the ethics we represent. ...

"The question is, how do you get to be who you are? How do you get to be yourself? In a way this film is about identity - Muhammad's and our own, as a society."

Re: May 1, 1967 - WBA Strips Cassius Clay 'A Beautiful Gesture'

Posted: 23 Oct 2013, 16:56
by SenorPipino
Was this the documentary where Rahman (formerly Rudy Clay) revealed that his brother tried to trade him to the Selective Service in exchange for Ali continuing his career without any military hassles?

Re: May 1, 1967 - WBA Strips Cassius Clay 'A Beautiful Gesture'

Posted: 23 Oct 2013, 17:04
by ThatOne
SenorPipino wrote:Was this the documentary where Rahman (formerly Rudy Clay) revealed that his brother tried to trade him to the Selective Service in exchange for Ali continuing his career without any military hassles?
No. That's from "Il Bugiardo: His Life And Times"


If you have HBO there's a special on Ali v the United States.

Re: May 1, 1967 - WBA Strips Cassius Clay 'A Beautiful Gesture'

Posted: 23 Oct 2013, 17:11
by SenorPipino
ThatOne wrote:
SenorPipino wrote:Was this the documentary where Rahman (formerly Rudy Clay) revealed that his brother tried to trade him to the Selective Service in exchange for Ali continuing his career without any military hassles?
No. That's from "Il Bugiardo: His Life And Times"


If you have HBO there's a special on Ali v the United States.

All the reviews indicate everyone will find it both riveting and outstanding. Unless your biases get in the way.

Re: May 1, 1967 - WBA Strips Cassius Clay 'A Beautiful Gesture'

Posted: 23 Oct 2013, 22:44
by Ambling Alp II
ThatOne wrote:
raylawpc wrote:
Il Duce wrote:Translation

Cassius Clay said if he could buy a few more F-15 Fighter Jets to stay out of serving in the Armed Services,

'he would have in a flash.'

He cared so little abut Vietnam, it's pathetic.

Joey Heatherton,,,,,,,,"That man is a spoiled child, talking like that from his Limousine."
Do you ever provide any sources for this stuff you write?
The part about the F15s is partially true... Ali did say something along the lines of "why do they want me? I'm paying for one hundred fighter jets with my taxes." He didn't threaten to stop fighting and consequently deny the government of the taxes his purses provided. And the F15 wasn't produced until 1976.

The Heatherton quote is an outright lie.

Il Bugiardo is allergic to the truth.

Good catch! :TU:

Re: May 1, 1967 - WBA Strips Cassius Clay 'A Beautiful Gesture'

Posted: 24 Oct 2013, 01:19
by Bobbyptsd
ThatOne wrote:"War will exist until that distant day when the conscientious objector enjoys the same reputation and prestige that the warrior does today."

-John F. Kennedy
Thirty fifth president and WW ll War Hero
Well as a ruthless warmonger, I guess it would have behooved him to say something like that.

Re: May 1, 1967 - WBA Strips Cassius Clay 'A Beautiful Gesture'

Posted: 24 Oct 2013, 09:30
by ThatOne
Bobbyptsd wrote:
ThatOne wrote:"War will exist until that distant day when the conscientious objector enjoys the same reputation and prestige that the warrior does today."

-John F. Kennedy
Thirty fifth president and WW ll War Hero
Well as a ruthless warmonger, I guess it would have behooved him to say something like that.
Warmonger, how?

He brought the world back from the brink of nuclear war without firing a shot.

As for Viet Nam I believe we had a whopping 16,000 soldiers there at the time of his death.

Re: May 1, 1967 - WBA Strips Cassius Clay 'A Beautiful Gesture'

Posted: 24 Oct 2013, 11:11
by ThatOne
Il Duce wrote:WBA 1967

The WBA announces,

That our hands are tied, we cannot put the Heavyweight Championship on hold while
Cassius Clay has his troubles with the United States Draft Board.

Our decision is not based upon 'religious beliefs', but the result of a Court Decision, with
a possible 'Jail Term' of 5-Years.

This matter between the Champion {Cassius Clay} and the United States Selective Service
has been ongoing for 3 1/2 Years {since November 1963}, as it just didn't happen today.
We have been following the circumstances between both 'parties' and choose no sides.

We have informed Cassius Clay and his Lawyers of our decision, and he can appeal that order
if he chooses. But, we believe that Mr. Clay will do what he likes, as he marches to the
beat of his own drum anyway. We wish him luck in the future.


Members of the Third Reich were hanged at Nuremberg for merely following orders.

Re: May 1, 1967 - WBA Strips Cassius Clay 'A Beautiful Gesture'

Posted: 24 Oct 2013, 11:30
by ThatOne
Il Duce wrote:Cassius Clay

If Mr. Cassius Clay 'refused' Military Service in Germany during World War II.

You would have never heard of him...............or seen him walking the through
the Parks along the Rhine River.

He probably would have ended up as 'Gear Lube'.........for a Panzer Tank.

I hope you aren't holding out The Third Reich as a benchmark for moral decision making.

Re: Veteran's Day and Cassius Clay

Posted: 11 Nov 2013, 11:51
by scallum
Never-ending lol

Re: Veteran's Day and Cassius Clay

Posted: 11 Nov 2013, 11:51
by scallum
Did you serve

Re: Veteran's Day and Cassius Clay

Posted: 11 Nov 2013, 12:03
by BoxBuzz
The single most fascinating aspect of this thread is the relationship between a moniker "Il Duce" and something pro U.S. Military.


Unless of course you are grateful for the employment aspect that your namesake had for the U.S. Military. I suppose he kept trains running in Italy and U.S. military employment in good stead.

Re: Veteran's Day and Cassius Clay

Posted: 11 Nov 2013, 12:07
by ThatOne
scallum wrote:Did you serve

He served five to ten for statutory rape...

Re: Veteran's Day and Cassius Clay

Posted: 11 Nov 2013, 12:13
by evrenb
BoxBuzz wrote:The single most fascinating aspect of this thread is the relationship between a moniker "Il Duce" and something pro U.S. Military.


Unless of course you are grateful for the employment aspect that your namesake had for the U.S. Military. I suppose he kept trains running in Italy and U.S. military employment in good stead.
lol hilarious....he has no idea....don't you think the idea of a book would be brilliant....It can have an empty Bibliography in the back, list of sources - imagination. Would be a great great novel...and I am serious !

Re: Veteran's Day and Cassius Clay

Posted: 11 Nov 2013, 13:02
by dempseyfire
I don't understand how you can't get tired of this . . .

Re: Veteran's Day and Cassius Clay

Posted: 11 Nov 2013, 13:15
by ThatOne
dempseyfire wrote:I don't understand how you can't get tired of this . . .

Duce or the respondents?