BoxRec

DaveyMac wrote:

elmersalsa wrote:

gilgamesh wrote:Gene Fullmer: Great pressure fighter, with a ton of heart and and a sturdy chin. Tough as hell. Not all that big of a puncher really, but his relentlessness made up for that.

Overall I never give much thought to where he ranks in the all time rankings, but he's probably underrated by most Boxing fans.

To me, he is a borderline top 100 great. I mean, it is very difficult to rank all the fighters p4p. It really is. Some of my favorites, I had to leave them out.

If Gene Fullmer makes the top 100 list in someone's list, there would be no argument from me at all. Not all lists are the same.

Agreed. People don't realize when you actually make a list like that how hard it is to be top 100. I have a friend who every time a movie comes on says "that's one of the top 10 movies of all time" he's probably said it now about 75 movies I know of alone :)
Same way with fighters everyone seems top 10 but of course they can't all be.

If you actually make a top 100 p4p list you will find there are tons of super fighters you can't get on there, so being top 100 is very elite in my book.

Yes indeed. Guys like the great Harold Johnson, as good as he was, is not in the top 100 in my view.

Others like Nicolino Locche, Lennox Lewis, Oscar De La Hoya, Floyd Patterson, Shane Mosley, James Toney, Jack Delaney, Nino Benvenutti, Hilario Zapata, Ken Buchanan, Ismael Laguna, did not make it. That is in my view.

While this thread is up. I just wanted to mention something that Ring Magazine said one time about Gene Fullmer that always made me laugh. Describing the way he fights.

I'm paraphrasing, but it was something like this "He would apply loads of pressure to any opponent, if that didn't work he would apply more pressure, if that still didn't work...he'd try a little pressure"

Mostly a one trick pony, but he could perform the hell out of that one trick, and of course to be that kinda fighter you gotta be one tough son of a bitch. He was.

He boxed just a little when he fought Carmen Basilio who was pretty much cut from the same cloth as him, and got the KO 14 win over Carmen. In 1959's Fight of the Year.

Pressure took him far.

As for Davy Macs comment about a friend who has 75 movies in the all-Time Top 10; I know people like that as well.

I have made a list of the top 100 and I agree that you have to leave a lot of really good fighters out. I had Fullmer in there.

He wasn't pretty to watch, but somehow it he got it done. He was consistent and beat a lot of very good/great fighters.

Ambling Alp II wrote:Pressure took him far.

As for Davy Macs comment about a friend who has 75 movies in the all-Time Top 10; I know people like that as well.

I have made a list of the top 100 and I agree that you have to leave a lot of really good fighters out. I had Fullmer in there.

He wasn't pretty to watch, but somehow it he got it done. He was consistent and beat a lot of very good/great fighters.

Gene Fullmer was the poster boy of tough white fighters.

elmersalsa wrote:

Ambling Alp II wrote:Pressure took him far.

As for Davy Macs comment about a friend who has 75 movies in the all-Time Top 10; I know people like that as well.

I have made a list of the top 100 and I agree that you have to leave a lot of really good fighters out. I had Fullmer in there.

He wasn't pretty to watch, but somehow it he got it done. He was consistent and beat a lot of very good/great fighters.

Gene Fullmer was the poster boy of tough white fighters.

When?

The odd thing about Fullmer is in almost all of his fights he utilized a pressure/mauler style in which he'd use his odd jab to get in, counter and come in with a combination and then get in close to foul and hit Then vs Basilio he pulls a 180 and becomes a boxer-mover, and he looks good doing it. Shows the versatility the old-timers had.

gilgamesh wrote: Not all that big of a puncher really

may i offer up this in response...

June 1958...unbeaten 13-0 prospect, 140lb Jay Fullmer, 21 year old younger brother of former middleweight champ Gene Fullmer, stepped up in opposition and took on 147lb veteran Joe Miceli....Miceli promptly stopped young Fullmer in the 3rd round, knocking him down 3 times.
5 months later Jay's older brother got to meet Miceli in a ring.....this happened....don't blink at 1.18 here...you'll hear it if you don't see it...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HuD-s3gfq4

He lost 6 out of 64 fights. He fought Robinson four times, Dick Tiger three times, Gil Turner three times, Basilio twice, Spider Webb twice, plus Florentino Fernandez, Joey Giardello, Benny Kid Paret, Eduardo Lausse, Charley Humez, Rocky Castellani, Del Flanagan, Paul Pender, Tiger Jones.....Very underrated due to his unorthodox brawling style. One tough bastard. He'd chase these modern guys out of the building.

doug.ie wrote:

gilgamesh wrote: Not all that big of a puncher really

may i offer up this in response...

June 1958...unbeaten 13-0 prospect, 140lb Jay Fullmer, 21 year old younger brother of former middleweight champ Gene Fullmer, stepped up in opposition and took on 147lb veteran Joe Miceli....Miceli promptly stopped young Fullmer in the 3rd round, knocking him down 3 times.
5 months later Jay's older brother got to meet Miceli in a ring.....this happened....don't blink at 1.18 here...you'll hear it if you don't see it...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HuD-s3gfq4

at least gene went over to help pick him up at the end

The thing with middleweights, is that after about the first 5, (Monzon, Hagler, Robinson, Greb, and Walker in some kind of order) there are so many that are fairly close.

Tiger, Griffith, Benvenuti, LaMotta, Giardello, Ketchel, Flowers,Cerdan,and Zale to name a few. Fullmer belongs somewhere in the mix.

For me, Fullmer probably squeezes in to the top 10 Middleweights of all time. I wouldn't rank him in the top tier (alongside Robinson, Hagler or Monzon) but I do think he wouldn't be a 1000 miles away from it when we are discussing the next tier of guys.

So yeah, I'd rank him highly. Plus, I've always preferred the brawling style - so maybe I'm more than a bit biased on this topic.

Ambling Alp II wrote:The thing with middleweights, is that after about the first 5, (Monzon, Hagler, Robinson, Greb, and Walker in some kind of order) there are so many that are fairly close.

Tiger, Griffith, Benvenuti, LaMotta, Giardello, Ketchel, Flowers,Cerdan,and Zale to name a few. Fullmer belongs somewhere in the mix.

Agreed and well said... The Middleweight division is STACKED with talent, and arguably always was... And you didn't even name brutes like Julian Jackson or Gerland McClellan - and then we have Monzon's old adversary - Rodrigo Valdez.

much as I love and respect gene, I have to keep him out of the top 10 middle arena. the place is just too loaded with talent. talent that fullmer really didn't possess. I feel a little bad saying it though.

Of the guys mentioned (outside the big 5) I'd take Tiger, Griffith, LaMotta, Ketchel and maybe Zale over him. All of them by not much. Even then I'm sort of giving credit to Ketchel for dying young and Zale for going to war, their actual CV doesn't match up with his IMHO but I think they may have been better fighters.
The rest of the guys I think he pretty clearly had a better career than.
Hard to say where a guy like McClellan figures in. In some ways he was so amazing in other ways maybe not so much, a very unique fighter that is hard to place on a list.

Not a lot separating any of these guys.

doug.ie wrote:

gilgamesh wrote: Not all that big of a puncher really

may i offer up this in response...

June 1958...unbeaten 13-0 prospect, 140lb Jay Fullmer, 21 year old younger brother of former middleweight champ Gene Fullmer, stepped up in opposition and took on 147lb veteran Joe Miceli....Miceli promptly stopped young Fullmer in the 3rd round, knocking him down 3 times.
5 months later Jay's older brother got to meet Miceli in a ring.....this happened....don't blink at 1.18 here...you'll hear it if you don't see it...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HuD-s3gfq4

The sound is exaggerated there with like Rocky movie type sound effects, but yeah the punch obviously was a big one and he definitely laid that dude out.

I still stand by my comment that Fullmer wasn't that big of a hitter for the most part, but yes that was a spectacular knockout. Fullmer was generally a guy that broke you down with steady pressure though rather than just took you out with one big shot.

I may have to reconsider Gene Fullmer and review his career in action on film and his ledger.