BoxRec

Alba wrote:

columbo wrote:

Anzi wrote:Gallagher, more successful, he trains more champions,, consistency, with all the good trainers in manchester like Oliver Harrison, Bobby Rimmer, Bob Shannon, good fighters seem to go to him most of the time.

Only because he's in fashion at the moment.

what a load of shite, he has a stable full of good fighters and he has played the part on them.All his fighters speak highly of him i can gather aswell.

Do you remember not that long ago Freddie Roach having the most packed stable out there? Since then, a lot of fighters have deserted him and not just that but the fighters he has had have been on more of a losing streak. Fighters in most cases make the trainers vs the other way round.

Alba wrote:

columbo wrote:

Anzi wrote:Gallagher, more successful, he trains more champions,, consistency, with all the good trainers in manchester like Oliver Harrison, Bobby Rimmer, Bob Shannon, good fighters seem to go to him most of the time.

Only because he's in fashion at the moment.

what a load of shite, he has a stable full of good fighters and he has played the part on them.All his fighters speak highly of him i can gather aswell.

Except the Murray's. Who know him best.

I believe Scotland's best trainer isnt Billy Nelson and is Peter Harrison, Billy is a very good trainer and believe me as much as we have banter etc in person Billy is actually decent guy. Peter just seems to have a knack of having people performing to the maximum potential and for example the work he has done with Craig Kelly has been nothing short of amazing in which having watched his debut I was struggling to see where he would get a result in the pro ranks to see him performing in a win in a scottish fight of the year . British scene look what Adam Booth done with Woodhouse, He has the way of getting his fighters to work on a gameplan and see the bigger picture and if he was in Groves corner against Froch it would have been landslide points win for GG.

JamieM wrote:I believe Scotland's best trainer isnt Billy Nelson and is Peter Harrison, Billy is a very good trainer and believe me as much as we have banter etc in person Billy is actually decent guy. Peter just seems to have a knack of having people performing to the maximum potential and for example the work he has done with Craig Kelly has been nothing short of amazing in which having watched his debut I was struggling to see where he would get a result in the pro ranks to see him performing in a win in a scottish fight of the year . British scene look what Adam Booth done with Woodhouse, He has the way of getting his fighters to work on a gameplan and see the bigger picture and if he was in Groves corner against Froch it would have been landslide points win for GG.

The victory Booth masterminded over Degale was pretty shrewd aswell.

JamieM wrote:I believe Scotland's best trainer isnt Billy Nelson and is Peter Harrison, Billy is a very good trainer and believe me as much as we have banter etc in person Billy is actually decent guy. Peter just seems to have a knack of having people performing to the maximum potential and for example the work he has done with Craig Kelly has been nothing short of amazing in which having watched his debut I was struggling to see where he would get a result in the pro ranks to see him performing in a win in a scottish fight of the year . British scene look what Adam Booth done with Woodhouse, He has the way of getting his fighters to work on a gameplan and see the bigger picture and if he was in Groves corner against Froch it would have been landslide points win for GG.

If Peter relocated outside Scotland he could have been someone very special IMO.
I was very lucky to learn from him and will always be thankful to him for giving me the opportunity

billy nelson wrote:

JamieM wrote:I believe Scotland's best trainer isnt Billy Nelson and is Peter Harrison, Billy is a very good trainer and believe me as much as we have banter etc in person Billy is actually decent guy. Peter just seems to have a knack of having people performing to the maximum potential and for example the work he has done with Craig Kelly has been nothing short of amazing in which having watched his debut I was struggling to see where he would get a result in the pro ranks to see him performing in a win in a scottish fight of the year . British scene look what Adam Booth done with Woodhouse, He has the way of getting his fighters to work on a gameplan and see the bigger picture and if he was in Groves corner against Froch it would have been landslide points win for GG.

If Peter relocated outside Scotland he could have been someone very special IMO.
I was very lucky to learn from him and will always be thankful to him for giving me the opportunity

That's the nicest and most respectful post I've ever seen from you Billy.

daviddee wrote:

expe wrote:

daviddee wrote: That's not a shock!! Ha.. Billy is a very good coach I agree but Joe has a few world level fighters at the minute so would have him top on quantity followed by Adam Booth I think he has the best boxing brain out of them all. Good list and shows we have a lot of talented trainers here in the uk

What world level fighter does Gallagher have? If he was still training fighters Enzo Calzaghe would be the best for me, alongside Billy Graham, but too many of Gallagher's fighters get stuck in the same style of marching forward in straight lines and throwing punches, there hasn't really been any significant improvement in any of them, he's just kept them going at the same level, with the possible exception of Crolla.

Scott Quigg is world champion. It may be a paper belt but a lot of people would argue the same for Ricky. Neither will be unified champions in my opinion.. I think both quite similar in how there careers will go.. Stephen Smith, Paul Smith and Crolla will probably fight for a form of World title at one stage and I think Callum Smith will become the best in his division. Boxing is what it is 4 major world titles so unless you unify your not really the best in the world and in my opinion world level. I agree Enzo Calzaghe the best trainer of the last 20 years. I don't think Billy is the best but he is very very good..

Guillermo Rigondeaux is the WBA Super Bantamweight champion, Scott Quigg is simply a glorified mandatory challenger with no interest in fighting the champion, bit different to Burns being WBO Champion, he may not have unified the titles, but there's no doubt he was a genuine world champion, only Bernard Hopkins has ever unified all 4 belts, it's almost impossible to do with all the mandatories. Fighting for a world title doesn't make you world class, Paul Smith is domestic level, Crolla's the same and Stephen might fight for a world title, but he isn't world class.

palooka wrote:

billy nelson wrote:

JamieM wrote:I believe Scotland's best trainer isnt Billy Nelson and is Peter Harrison, Billy is a very good trainer and believe me as much as we have banter etc in person Billy is actually decent guy. Peter just seems to have a knack of having people performing to the maximum potential and for example the work he has done with Craig Kelly has been nothing short of amazing in which having watched his debut I was struggling to see where he would get a result in the pro ranks to see him performing in a win in a scottish fight of the year . British scene look what Adam Booth done with Woodhouse, He has the way of getting his fighters to work on a gameplan and see the bigger picture and if he was in Groves corner against Froch it would have been landslide points win for GG.

If Peter relocated outside Scotland he could have been someone very special IMO.
I was very lucky to learn from him and will always be thankful to him for giving me the opportunity

That's the nicest and most respectful post I've ever seen from you Billy.

All the trainers on the list are very good and there are a lot of other trainers not on the list that are achieving good things as well, gary lockett, paddy fitgerald, steffy bull, shane mcguigan etc. We are very lucky in the uk and Ireland that there are good gyms and trainers all over the place and there has been a lot of world champions coming from these shores year after year.

fair play Billy, you are the most clued up person on Peter here and I will take your word for that. From what I have seen hes incredible and only ever heard amazing things about him! Im sure as you appreciate the chance he gave you he would be proud of you also for being a part of another World title in Scotland!

I went for McCracken. Froch is always super fit and if he listened to and acted on Robs superb advice his fights would be a bit easier. Like how he handled Abraham. I rarely disagree with Robs advice and he gives it over in a very clear manner. He rarely gets flustered.

I agree Joes fighters are mainly straight ahead guys who have wars at domestic level. I don't see what skills or nuances he imparts to them. They just seem very fit and game. He doesn't seem to mind them leading with their faces and taking punishment.

I like Gary Lockett and Shane McGuigan both as trainers with very big futures.

ThereByTheGrace wrote:I like Gary Lockett and Shane McGuigan both as trainers with very big futures.

Forgot about Lockett. He's a guy I really like the look of as a trainer.

Tomasino wrote:I went for McCracken. Froch is always super fit and if he listened to and acted on Robs superb advice his fights would be a bit easier. Like how he handled Abraham. I rarely disagree with Robs advice and he gives it over in a very clear manner. He rarely gets flustered.

I agree Joes fighters are mainly straight ahead guys who have wars at domestic level. I don't see what skills or nuances he imparts to them. They just seem very fit and game. He doesn't seem to mind them leading with their faces and taking punishment.

That's why I don't really rate Joe Gallagher, anyone can get a fighter fit and in shape, you don't need to know a lot about boxing to do that, but when you see John Murray spending 30 odd fights marching forward in a straight line, hands glued to his head with no head movement and throwing punches, you have to question the technical side of things. It didn't take a genius to see that Murray needed to move his head and start using more angles, but he never changed and came unstuck against Mitchell. The best trainers adapt to the fighters style, rather than the fighter adapting to their style.

Love the debate about trainers and who's better than who, for me this always ends up the same way, people tend to go for trainers that reflect what they want or need to be told in the gym, some prefer the "military" Calzaghe style others the calm direction of a Booth type trainer some like a bit of both.
Me personally, I like Adam Booth, cool, calm, precise, thoughtful. Doesn't spout cliché after cliché, seems tactically very astute. I am a firm believer tho that the fighter makes the trainer, of course the trainer has big input but ultimately it's down to the fighter. Funny how trainers go in and out of 'fashion' tho!

I like listening to the Liverpool trainer Paul Stevenson between rounds,he,s a clever trainer,very astute tactically

black panther wrote:Tibbs has a wealth of experience, the sort of experience that takes decades to acquire. He's had fighters with all sorts of styles under his wing and taken fighters all the way to world title level.

Gallagher has achieved a hell of a lot in a relatively short space of time but despite recent successes you can't overlook past accomplishments with trainers.

Just want to add; Nelson deserves massive credit for what he did with Ricky Burns - from losing at British level to dominating fighters like Rocky Martinez and Katsidis.

Be interested to hear what the trainers on the forum feel makes a great trainer; Arnie Farnell, Gallagher and Billy Nelson all post on here.

Good fighters make a good trainer, but more importantly if the fighter believes what the coach tells him and they have a good understanding of each other they will have a great partnership,
Also look at people like Nobby Nobbs he never got trainer of the year, because IMO his fighters weren't up to the level of others BUT they had the defensive technic which was great had helped them all have long careers without taking much punishment and that was down to Nobby.

expe wrote:Went for Billy Nelson, the transformation that Ricky Burns has gone through under him has been incredible, from domestic gatekeeper to 2 weight world champion. To me that's the mark of a great trainer, not only someone who can get the best out of a fighter, but someone who can pick out the faults in their game and make the necessary technical improvements.

Dont forget very astute promoting/matchmaking.

Surprised so many are going for Booth, he's shown he's good for a certain kind of fighter but to me others on the list have proved a lot more. Would be interested to see what Booth could do with Khan though.

I think right now you have to give Gallagher credit as top dog. But if you take career achievements into account probably Jimmy Tibbs.

Respect to all of them obviously.

palooka wrote:If I were to go with McCracken it would be for his work with the amateurs; Robert and the team he has around him have transformed the realistic medal hopes of the GB squad. I don't really think that Froch has added a great deal to his style and capabilities over the last 10 years; he's pretty much the same just faster, stronger and fitter - his conditioning is excellent and I'd not say his boxing technique is as refined as you'd expect (that is not a dig, just an opinion).

I'd go for Gallagher - he trains a squad of pros who seem to be there through thick and thin, he is good tactically, gets the fighters in excellent shape and seems to get the best out of every one of them.

That's a fair comment, to be honest i was only thinking about it from a pro point of view.

Stylistically, there's not a lot froch does different, you're right. But mentally, i believe he adds so much to Froch, who i think is mentally a lot weaker than he'd like to admit

I tried to vote for Gary Lockett to be the grumpiest looking trainer in the UK but it wouldn't let me
Good luck in Germany GAAAAAAARRRRRY

It must be that time of the year again. And around we go....

Re: McCracken - hard to judge on his amateur success. The amount of funding GB Boxing received and continue to recieve is astronomical compared to what Terry Edwards and Kevin Hickey had before him, yet they achieved great success at world and olympic championships. The cost per medal was undoubtably lower. More money for McCracken meant more ancillary staff, more support, more tournaments to attend. Lets not forget that McCracken isn't a coach at GB (having never done an amateur coaching qualification). Judge him on his professional success with Froch, a strong, fit and determined fighter who hasn't appeared to have improved technically over the years. Still swings wildly, still keeps the lead hand low, still of balance and lunging with hooks and uppercuts. Massively effective at what he does yes, and has an unbreakable bond with McCracken which I accept is a massive factor in his success. He trusts McCracken and they work extremely well together.

McCracken to his credit though appears to be a good man manager at GB overssing the programme and getting the best out his team and as a pro coach is very calm in the corner.

I've said this in past threads on the subject - its such a subjective thing and so many factors about how good a coach is come into play - relationship with boxer, technical ability, ability to bring in an manage strenght coaches, dieticians etc.

Take Booth as another example - the sky hyperbole about him being a 'master tactician' was almost sickening. Fact is Haye and Groves, his two star pupils fight in a similar way and both appear to lack stamina in the later rounds. Why has he never addressed that?

Gallagher - pedigree as an amateur coach, has redefined himself in the last 18 months. Was criticised as producing only brawlers and now has a mixture of styles. Has good relationships with his fighters.

Sims - has been handed a lot of talent to work with and did well with Barker from the start, but again how much did barker imrpove over the journey? Hard to measure. Good relationship with him and that is ultimately what counts.

All the above coaches are effective but mainly because of the outside factors I mentioned. Sometimes its not what you teach its how you teach it.

I rate Danny Vaughan highly. He's masterminded a few upsets in the past few years and I like what he says to his boxers in the corner.

Am surprised to see a few pump Gallagher aswell. He gets his fighters in great condition but he doesn't really develop his fighters much. He's not the type of trainer you would go to off a couple of defeats to try and reinvent yourself (unless stamina and or fitness is the issue).

Off that list I voted for Harrison

dbf wrote:It must be that time of the year again. And around we go....

Re: McCracken - hard to judge on his amateur success. The amount of funding GB Boxing received and continue to recieve is astronomical compared to what Terry Edwards and Kevin Hickey had before him, yet they achieved great success at world and olympic championships. The cost per medal was undoubtably lower. More money for McCracken meant more ancillary staff, more support, more tournaments to attend. Lets not forget that McCracken isn't a coach at GB (having never done an amateur coaching qualification). Judge him on his professional success with Froch, a strong, fit and determined fighter who hasn't appeared to have improved technically over the years. Still swings wildly, still keeps the lead hand low, still of balance and lunging with hooks and uppercuts. Massively effective at what he does yes, and has an unbreakable bond with McCracken which I accept is a massive factor in his success. He trusts McCracken and they work extremely well together.

McCracken to his credit though appears to be a good man manager at GB overssing the programme and getting the best out his team and as a pro coach is very calm in the corner.

I've said this in past threads on the subject - its such a subjective thing and so many factors about how good a coach is come into play - relationship with boxer, technical ability, ability to bring in an manage strenght coaches, dieticians etc.

Take Booth as another example - the sky hyperbole about him being a 'master tactician' was almost sickening. Fact is Haye and Groves, his two star pupils fight in a similar way and both appear to lack stamina in the later rounds. Why has he never addressed that?

Gallagher - pedigree as an amateur coach, has redefined himself in the last 18 months. Was criticised as producing only brawlers and now has a mixture of styles. Has good relationships with his fighters.

Sims - has been handed a lot of talent to work with and did well with Barker from the start, but again how much did barker imrpove over the journey? Hard to measure. Good relationship with him and that is ultimately what counts.

All the above coaches are effective but mainly because of the outside factors I mentioned. Sometimes its not what you teach its how you teach it.

Good post. I personally think Booth is a great manager but his skills as a trainer are still in questions. In Haye and Groves he had two fighters who were already excellent fighters before they stepped into his gym.

Peter_G_Superstar wrote:I rate Danny Vaughan highly. He's masterminded a few upsets in the past few years and I like what he says to his boxers in the corner.

Am surprised to see a few pump Gallagher aswell. He gets his fighters in great condition but he doesn't really develop his fighters much. He's not the type of trainer you would go to off a couple of defeats to try and reinvent yourself (unless stamina and or fitness is the issue).

Off that list I voted for Harrison

danny is a very good coach very experienced an still young tactics are spot on no surprise really considering he worked with his dad for 20 years what george doesnt know about boxing isnt worth knowing imo very well respected on the boxing circuit