BoxRec

I have Joe 6th.

Louis
Ali
Holmes
Holyfield
Foreman
Frazier

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:I have Joe 6th.

Louis
Ali
Holmes
Holyfield
Foreman
Frazier

That sounds very reasonable. I generally have Joe in the middle of the Top 10.

BoxBuzz wrote:So he's up there with Riddick Bowe.

btw, I think you are yanking my chain a bit but being a nice guy, I'll just let it go.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:I have Joe 6th.

Louis
Ali
Holmes
Holyfield
Foreman
Frazier

Not bad mine is very similar

ALI
HOLMES
LOUIS
LEWIS
FOREMAN
HOLYFIELD
FRAZIER

yancey wrote:

BoxBuzz wrote:So he's up there with Riddick Bowe.

btw, I think you are yanking my chain a bit but being a nice guy, I'll just let it go.

Which one of us is the nice guy that you are using as a basis to make the "letting go" decision?


Anyway my Bowe analogy is simply regarding the limited scope of his time at the top.

For Example Bowe beat Holyfield, but does not enter into Saads list. Joe beats Ali but is placed mid top ten.

Shows that for some, *myself included, the amount of time you can sustain your ability factors in to your place on the list. I walk around under the dazed impression on occasion, that Bowe at his best.....might have the best chance of anyone to beat any HW in history. But not sure if I think he should be top ten.

But that lasted about long as the lifetime of Tsetse fly or about 6 months.

BoxBuzz wrote:

yancey wrote:

BoxBuzz wrote:So he's up there with Riddick Bowe.

btw, I think you are yanking my chain a bit but being a nice guy, I'll just let it go.

Which one of us is the nice guy that you are using as a basis to make the "letting go" decision?


Anyway my Bowe analogy is simply regarding the limited scope of his time at the top.

For Example Bowe beat Holyfield, but does not enter into Saads list. Joe beats Ali but is placed mid top ten.

Shows that for some, *myself included, the amount of time you can sustain your ability factors in to your place on the list. I walk around under the dazed impression on occasion, that Bowe at his best.....might have the best chance of anyone to beat any HW in history. But not sure if I think he should be top ten.

But that lasted about long as the lifetime of Tsetse fly or about 6 months.

Fair points about the short peaks and the inconsistencies.

But one man reached true greatness at the supreme moment. (even though I've long maintained Joe was better a year or two earlier)

I don't think prevailing over Holyfield carries the weight that Joe prevailing over someone like Ali in the big moment did.

As you have said, Joe and Muhammad were good for each other.

And we're both nice guys.

What, no Sonny Liston

BoxBuzz wrote:

yancey wrote:

BoxBuzz wrote:So he's up there with Riddick Bowe.

btw, I think you are yanking my chain a bit but being a nice guy, I'll just let it go.

Which one of us is the nice guy that you are using as a basis to make the "letting go" decision?


Anyway my Bowe analogy is simply regarding the limited scope of his time at the top.

For Example Bowe beat Holyfield, but does not enter into Saads list. Joe beats Ali but is placed mid top ten.

Shows that for some, *myself included, the amount of time you can sustain your ability factors in to your place on the list. I walk around under the dazed impression on occasion, that Bowe at his best.....might have the best chance of anyone to beat any HW in history. But not sure if I think he should be top ten.

But that lasted about long as the lifetime of Tsetse fly or about 6 months.

You just have to look at their overall careers. Next to Foreman's win over Frazier, Bowe's win over Holyfield is better than any win of anyone on this list. However, after that there is a big dropoff for Bowe. (Though he had some decent wins that are a little underrated.) He did enough to be in the Top 15 or so, but certainly not #3.

Frazier had the big win over Ali, but overall didn't do enough to be #1 or #2. That he lost so badly to Foreman hurts his case a bit as well. However, he had enough other solid wins (superior to Bowe's) that gets him in the conversation for being #3.

Really from about #3 to # 10 is extremely close. Most people's lists have most of the same names in different orders.

Il Duce wrote:Frito-Lay

I have Muhammad Ali at #11.

He just wasn't good enough to make the Top 10.

He loses big points for 'not' taking out an injured back Floyd Patterson in November 1965.

That's all I need to know...........

Then you are on a "need to know basis" from this point forward.

AND....I'm quite surprised you find him in your top 20. Did you miss a digit? or is that a type-0? Did you mean 111? Just under Leotis Martin and Thad Spencer?

You are on dangerous ground with this assessment, your fan base will begin to think you've gone soft. Have you been reading pro Ali propaganda again?

"You just have to look at their overall careers. Next to Foreman's win over Frazier, Bowe's win over Holyfield is better than any win of anyone on this list. However, after that there is a big dropoff for Bowe. (Though he had some decent wins that are a little underrated.) He did enough to be in the Top 15 or so, but certainly not #3.

Frazier had the big win over Ali, but overall didn't do enough to be #1 or #2. That he lost so badly to Foreman hurts his case a bit as well. However, he had enough other solid wins (superior to Bowe's) that gets him in the conversation for being #3.

Really from about #3 to # 10 is extremely close. Most people's lists have most of the same names in different orders." Ambling Alp



I can agree 100% with this.

I have to agree when it comes to records. But I'm glad neither Frazier nor Ali had to face Bowe in their mutual primes. I would be very unsure of the outcome with a Prime Bowe vs any HW in history.

BoxBuzz wrote:I have to agree when it comes to records. But I'm glad neither Frazier nor Ali had to face Bowe in their mutual primes. I would be very unsure of the outcome with a Prime Bowe vs any HW in history.

Did Bowe have possible cardiac issues when things got really tough?

I didn't follow that era well at all, but I had the impression he could be a flake.

Did he duck Lewis, or do I have it in reverse?

yancey wrote:

BoxBuzz wrote:I have to agree when it comes to records. But I'm glad neither Frazier nor Ali had to face Bowe in their mutual primes. I would be very unsure of the outcome with a Prime Bowe vs any HW in history.

Did Bowe have possible cardiac issues when things got really tough?

I didn't follow that era well at all, but I had the impression he could be a flake.

Did he duck Lewis, or do I have it in reverse?

Some say he ducked Lewis....I think it was a management thing, that was helpful to get media stirred up. But he never showed a hint of it in the ring....I think he was willing to fight on with his balls crushed. Unless someone thinks he was just bellyachin' against Golata.....but I have to say, the Golata fight was not the "Face of Bowe" of old. lol.

yancey wrote:

BoxBuzz wrote:I have to agree when it comes to records. But I'm glad neither Frazier nor Ali had to face Bowe in their mutual primes. I would be very unsure of the outcome with a Prime Bowe vs any HW in history.

Did Bowe have possible cardiac issues when things got really tough?

I didn't follow that era well at all, but I had the impression he could be a flake.

Did he duck Lewis, or do I have it in reverse?

Hell no, Bowe was as gritty as they come.

Yes, he ducked Lewis.

This would be more interesting if we somehow knew this was a legit quote.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:

yancey wrote:

BoxBuzz wrote:I have to agree when it comes to records. But I'm glad neither Frazier nor Ali had to face Bowe in their mutual primes. I would be very unsure of the outcome with a Prime Bowe vs any HW in history.

Did Bowe have possible cardiac issues when things got really tough?

I didn't follow that era well at all, but I had the impression he could be a flake.

Did he duck Lewis, or do I have it in reverse?

Hell no, Bowe was as gritty as they come.

Yes, he ducked Lewis.

Well he never faced Lewis again....so that's a square call.

Mine looks something like this, though I change it every so often

1. Muhammad Ali
2. Joe Louis
3. Rocky Marciano
4. Larry Holmes
5. Lennox Lewis
6. George Foreman
7. Mike Tyson
8. Evander Holyfield
9. Joe Frazier
10. Wladimir Klitschko

Tyson over Holyfield is outlandish. Accomplished less, got his ass whipped H2H. No way of justifying that.

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Tyson over Holyfield is outlandish. Accomplished less, got his ass whipped H2H. No way of justifying that.

Whatever floats your boat.

drunkenpiper36 wrote:

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Tyson over Holyfield is outlandish. Accomplished less, got his ass whipped H2H. No way of justifying that.

Whatever floats your boat.

In over 120 years of HW history...

I just can't help but question whether 4 of the top 6 or 7 really did just happen to fight in the same 10 year span.

It could be right. It really could. But if I knew nothing about the sport (don't say it!!!) and someone showed me these lists I'd be highly sceptical that they weren't extremely biased.

So far on the poll the last 40 years accounts for over 70% of the votes. The first 80 years around 25%...

Doesn't feel right...

Johnson is the only guy in the first five I'd rate over any of the bottom five.

Louis
Ali
Foreman
Holyfield
Frazier
Holmes
Lewis

Ezzard wrote:So far on the poll the last 40 years accounts for over 70% of the votes. The first 80 years around 25%...

Doesn't feel right...

Would you have Johnson, Jeffries, Dempsey, or Langford as your #3? I myself voted for Marciano in that spot. I have Louis at #2