BoxRec

TopGun wrote:Does Adam Booth train Nathan now?

No he is back with his Dad Vince once again,

Anzi wrote:

TopGun wrote:Does Adam Booth train Nathan now?

No he is back with his Dad Vince once again,

They seemed a good team; Kovalev would have been too powerful for him whoever trained him, he'll probably go on a real knockout streak like Golovkin. I think Nathan is a solid and pretty basic boxer who has done very well, I don't think he'll be sturdy or powerful enough to make it to the big time at Cruiser - Huck and Afolabi would do awful things to him.

Anzi wrote:

TopGun wrote:Does Adam Booth train Nathan now?

No he is back with his Dad Vince once again,

No he isn't Saf, he is with another guy now.

Interview:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNimo_Csurk

Nathan Cleverly seems to be ridicuasly(?) underrated in this country,he's no Mayweather but he's still a great fighter IMO,he earned his shot at the title fighting good opposition when he was British,Commonwealth and European champ and then was Interim Champ before becoming WBO titlist,it wasnt his fault he was handed title,Braehmer was to blame for that and for Nathan fighting Kuziemski after Bellew couldnt make weight,Kuziemski was last minute replacement yet was deemed good enough for Pascal to fight,nobody batted an eye when Stevenson fought Bellew coz Tony earned it,fair do's Hawk and Karpency were poor but wasnt Hawk a late replacement also?

I agree that his opponents when he was a world champ were less than stellar to say the least but i'd put the blame at Wazza's door for that one,Cleverly by all accounts forced the fight with Kovalev despite Sergey killing someone in the ring and i dont think even Nathan's worst haters can doubt his heart

Plus i love a fighter who works his way up the traditional way(British,Commonwealth,European etc) i suppose i'm a romantic ,but i do know much lesser fighters than Nathan Cleverly dont have to put up with half the stick he gets,he might not be elite but for me he,s still a world class fighter

I've always thought you were romantic

handsofstone wrote:Nathan Cleverly seems to be ridicuasly(?) underrated in this country,he's no Mayweather but he's still a great fighter IMO,he earned his shot at the title fighting good opposition when he was British,Commonwealth and European champ and then was Interim Champ before becoming WBO titlist,it wasnt his fault he was handed title,Braehmer was to blame for that and for Nathan fighting Kuziemski after Bellew couldnt make weight,Kuziemski was last minute replacement yet was deemed good enough for Pascal to fight,nobody batted an eye when Stevenson fought Bellew coz Tony earned it,fair do's Hawk and Karpency were poor but wasnt Hawk a late replacement also?

I agree that his opponents when he was a world champ were less than stellar to say the least but i'd put the blame at Wazza's door for that one,Cleverly by all accounts forced the fight with Kovalev despite Sergey killing someone in the ring and i dont think even Nathan's worst haters can doubt his heart

Plus i love a fighter who works his way up the traditional way(British,Commonwealth,European etc) i suppose i'm a romantic ,but i do know much lesser fighters than Nathan Cleverly dont have to put up with half the stick he gets,he might not be elite but for me he,s still a world class fighter

I get the general idea if what you're saying, and agree with most of it, but it would have been a lot more romantic if he had won any of those titles in the ring.

handsofstone wrote:Nathan Cleverly seems to be ridicuasly(?) underrated in this country,he's no Mayweather but he's still a great fighter IMO,he earned his shot at the title fighting good opposition when he was British,Commonwealth and European champ and then was Interim Champ before becoming WBO titlist,it wasnt his fault he was handed title,Braehmer was to blame for that and for Nathan fighting Kuziemski after Bellew couldnt make weight,Kuziemski was last minute replacement yet was deemed good enough for Pascal to fight,nobody batted an eye when Stevenson fought Bellew coz Tony earned it,fair do's Hawk and Karpency were poor but wasnt Hawk a late replacement also?

I agree that his opponents when he was a world champ were less than stellar to say the least but i'd put the blame at Wazza's door for that one,Cleverly by all accounts forced the fight with Kovalev despite Sergey killing someone in the ring and i dont think even Nathan's worst haters can doubt his heart

Plus i love a fighter who works his way up the traditional way(British,Commonwealth,European etc) i suppose i'm a romantic ,but i do know much lesser fighters than Nathan Cleverly dont have to put up with half the stick he gets,he might not be elite but for me he,s still a world class fighter

I don't think he is under rated I just think allot of people question his move up to cruiser weight. Around 6 months ago or so he was talking about dropping down in weight to fight froch at a catch weight so for him to then jump up to cruiser makes no sense!

If he genuinely is struggling at the weight then fair enough he has no other option but to me it looked like he was always in decent shape at light heavy.

IMO his best two attributes where his speed and his work rate, but when he moves up will he have his speed and be able to keep a high work rate at that weight. This is what people are questioning?
Another point is nathan has never been a big puncher infact I'd say he can't punch at all so to jump up to cruiser where the guys are used to getting hit by bigger stronger guys will he be able to back them up and keep them off him???

I personally don't think he will but time will tell, I hope he keeps winning and bellew does so when they meet there is allot on the line

handsofstone wrote:Nathan Cleverly seems to be ridicuasly(?) underrated in this country,he's no Mayweather but he's still a great fighter IMO,he earned his shot at the title fighting good opposition when he was British,Commonwealth and European champ and then was Interim Champ before becoming WBO titlist,it wasnt his fault he was handed title,Braehmer was to blame for that and for Nathan fighting Kuziemski after Bellew couldnt make weight,Kuziemski was last minute replacement yet was deemed good enough for Pascal to fight,nobody batted an eye when Stevenson fought Bellew coz Tony earned it,fair do's Hawk and Karpency were poor but wasnt Hawk a late replacement also?

I agree that his opponents when he was a world champ were less than stellar to say the least but i'd put the blame at Wazza's door for that one,Cleverly by all accounts forced the fight with Kovalev despite Sergey killing someone in the ring and i dont think even Nathan's worst haters can doubt his heart

Plus i love a fighter who works his way up the traditional way(British,Commonwealth,European etc) i suppose i'm a romantic ,but i do know much lesser fighters than Nathan Cleverly dont have to put up with half the stick he gets,he might not be elite but for me he,s still a world class fighter

I can see your point in a way, but I've never been convinced he is a world class fighter. Like Bellew, he's European level at best.

Allegedly did a great job with him, and it's a shame he thinks the grass is greener with Hearn. Short term it is good to go with Hearn, but in the long run he can't build a career for his fighters. Watch him make an erse of Campbell and Joshua.

How many stars has Hearn made? None!

How many stars has allegedly made? Too many to count!

ThereByTheGrace wrote:

handsofstone wrote:Nathan Cleverly seems to be ridicuasly(?) underrated in this country,he's no Mayweather but he's still a great fighter IMO,he earned his shot at the title fighting good opposition when he was British,Commonwealth and European champ and then was Interim Champ before becoming WBO titlist,it wasnt his fault he was handed title,Braehmer was to blame for that and for Nathan fighting Kuziemski after Bellew couldnt make weight,Kuziemski was last minute replacement yet was deemed good enough for Pascal to fight,nobody batted an eye when Stevenson fought Bellew coz Tony earned it,fair do's Hawk and Karpency were poor but wasnt Hawk a late replacement also?

I agree that his opponents when he was a world champ were less than stellar to say the least but i'd put the blame at Wazza's door for that one,Cleverly by all accounts forced the fight with Kovalev despite Sergey killing someone in the ring and i dont think even Nathan's worst haters can doubt his heart

Plus i love a fighter who works his way up the traditional way(British,Commonwealth,European etc) i suppose i'm a romantic ,but i do know much lesser fighters than Nathan Cleverly dont have to put up with half the stick he gets,he might not be elite but for me he,s still a world class fighter

I can see your point in a way, but I've never been convinced he is a world class fighter. Like Bellew, he's European level at best.

Allegedly did a great job with him, and it's a shame he thinks the grass is greener with Hearn. Short term it is good to go with Hearn, but in the long run he can't build a career for his fighters. Watch him make an erse of Campbell and Joshua.

How many stars has Hearn made? None!

How many stars has allegedly made? Too many to count!

He's made himself a star

Yes sorry Palooka, I'm not counting nice guy Eddie.

The Hearn's have made a rep from sexing up Darts and Snooker for Sky which has given them power to feck up boxing with their no name Argentinian punchbags and that dickheed from the Darts doing the announcing!

I think it's a big mistake to go with him, sure you'll get a decent payday for 18 months or so, but after that then what? Like it or not, allegedly knew how to pick the fights at the right time to maximise pay/reputation in the long run.

I'm not convinced about this move up to CW also and i'm not sure if he'll still have the heart he did before the Drago fight,and it looks a bit poor from him leaving Wazza after his first loss seeing as Fwank got him to where he is now but i suppose this is all irrelevant to his ability,i much prefer to see fighters get back on the horse ASAP unless injured,like Cleverly supposedly was,who knows? boxing fans are mostly cynics it seems but it does seem a bit dubious with him jumping ship after numerous call offs


And yes palooka i am a romantic,i'm old school despite the fact i've only been following boxing a month DD

handsofstone wrote:I'm not convinced about this move up to CW also and i'm not sure if he'll still have the heart he did before the Drago fight,and it looks a bit poor from him leaving Wazza after his first loss seeing as Fwank got him to where he is now but i suppose this is all irrelevant to his ability,i much prefer to see fighters get back on the horse ASAP unless injured,like Cleverly supposedly was,who knows? boxing fans are mostly cynics it seems but it does seem a bit dubious with him jumping ship after numerous call offs


And yes palooka i am a romantic,i'm old school despite the fact i've only been following boxing a month DD

You won't find me knocking you for your youth; I wish I was younger and could discover the classic fights - they bring an awful lot of pleasure - and I wish the internet had been about when I was younger. There are people that follow all sorts for donkeys years and are no more clued up than anyone else; though I'm so old school we had ink wells

I think its a good move for Clev, not sure about him at Cruiser though..like he said ''there could do with being another division so the gap isnt so big''
sounds a bit worried about the 14 stoners maybe?

palooka wrote:
He's made himself a star

Leave Edward alone !

G0mez wrote:

palooka wrote:
He's made himself a star

Leave Edward alone !

Is that Lee Froch behind the shades?

palooka wrote:
Is that Lee Froch behind the shades?

before feeding him to Bellew.




This is the kind of comment that keeps me away from boxing forums (the part in bold).





So I see the previous comment didn't actually keep you away from this forum ...... pity

Another way of looking at this; if you could play fantasy british boxing manager/promoter and draw up a list of 20 british boxers, would cleverly make your list ?

my top 20 would include; Tyson fury, Hughie Fury, Anthony Joshua, carl froch, George groves, james degale, callum smith, billy joe saunders, kell brook, amir khan, Bradley saunders, Frankie gavin, ricky burns, mitchell smith, Liam walsh, luke campbell, scott quigg, carl Frampton, stuart hall, paul butler.

If I picked another ten, cleverly might make it but I wouldn't be falling over myself to sign him up.

G0mez wrote:

Anzi wrote:

TopGun wrote:Does Adam Booth train Nathan now?

No he is back with his Dad Vince once again,

No he isn't Saf, he is with another guy now.

Interview:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNimo_Csurk

he is part of team as a strength and conditioning coach, Vice is still his main trainer Gomez

Thats for those who think Warren doesn't care - Nathan Cleverly has a contract with me
Cleverly is not a draw because he was managed TERRIBLY. He beat Bellew once, there is no reason he doesn't beat him again.

Tarkus wrote:Thats for those who think Warren doesn't care - Nathan Cleverly has a contract with me
Cleverly is not a draw because he was managed TERRIBLY. He beat Bellew once, there is no reason he doesn't beat him again.

At Light Heavy he beats Bellew, but Nathan has no business messing about at Cruiser, he hasn't got the frame for it. He isn't a draw because he doesn't sell well, he was on all the big Calzaghe undercards at the start of his career with all the added publicity they brought, guided through British, Commonwealth and European titles, all the way up to winning a vacant world title, taking the easiest route all the way along, given a big domestic fight with Bellew, won, made another defence in Cardiff and fought on a big bill in the US. I don't see what more could have been done, some fighters sell loads of tickets, others don't, Cleverly falls into the latter category.

Tarkus wrote:Thats for those who think Warren doesn't care - Nathan Cleverly has a contract with me
Cleverly is not a draw because he was managed TERRIBLY. He beat Bellew once, there is no reason he doesn't beat him again.

He was managed brilliantly.

Tarkus wrote:Thats for those who think Warren doesn't care - Nathan Cleverly has a contract with me
Cleverly is not a draw because he was managed TERRIBLY. He beat Bellew once, there is no reason he doesn't beat him again.

To me there is an interesting thing amid all this fracas.

Fundamentally, who gets to decide whether the fighter fights ? Because the way promoters carry on (I am speaking in general, not about Cleverly) it seems to be the case that unless they have granted their approval, a professional fighter is not meant to get in the ring and fight. That's like a pimp and a "lady of the night" - she can't go out to work unless he approves and is getting his cut.

I realise it comes down to what is in the contract but I would think there is the potential for a whopper of a counter legal action against a manager or promoter who stopped a fighter from fighting.

JimJim2009 wrote:

Tarkus wrote:Thats for those who think Warren doesn't care - Nathan Cleverly has a contract with me
Cleverly is not a draw because he was managed TERRIBLY. He beat Bellew once, there is no reason he doesn't beat him again.

To me there is an interesting thing amid all this fracas.

Fundamentally, who gets to decide whether the fighter fights ? Because the way promoters carry on (I am speaking in general, not about Cleverly) it seems to be the case that unless they have granted their approval, a professional fighter is not meant to get in the ring and fight. That's like a pimp and a "lady of the night" - she can't go out to work unless he approves and is getting his cut.

I realise it comes down to what is in the contract but I would think there is the potential for a whopper of a counter legal action against a manager or promoter who stopped a fighter from fighting.

Definitely depends on what the contract says, I think managers have to approve the fight in some way, someone will have to confirm that though because I'm not 100% certain on that, but promoters would be a different matter. I guess it's not to do with their cut, but any smart promoter will surely have a clause in the contract saying approval is needed to box on a show other than their own, whether it includes a cut of the purse for that fight or not.

I am not talking about his early carrier. What was it after Bellew fight? Huge spans of inactivity, meaningless opposition. Bellew passed him in the ratings, what more can we say. People got tired of waiting. If winning fighter cant sell tickets in his home for me it is his promoters fall. We will see how well he does with Matchroom.

As for frame. he looks as big as Bellew to me. Until he fights at cruiser I cant discount him like that.