BoxRec

hhaehre wrote:

Duch wrote:

Il Duce wrote:Joe Frazier

"Everybody knew that the 1st-Bout was the most important fight in Boxing History."

I guess he never said that?

"Yes, I did in fact say that" - Joe Frazier
"It's true, he really did say it" - Muhammad Ali
"I heard him say it too" - Martin Luther King Jr.
"Damn right he did" - Gandhi

classic

First fight clearly. Third fight a great fight but not one of the top 5 greatest HW fights, or probably fight in any weight class, the first fight was.

The 2nd is the worst but I will say this . . .I used to think it was a pretty bad fight. Then after many years I re-watched it recently and it's a pretty good scrap. It pales by its comparisons to the other two, but taken on its own it's an excellent boxing match. And as bad as Ali's holding is in it, it still is nothing compared to what Clinchko displayed vs Povetkin.

I'd say the third one because both men suddenly realised how great the other one was & nearly expired trying to beat each other.

Take away the first fight how does Frazier resume look? Did he beat any other Champions or former Champions?

It's pretty good.
He beat WBA champion Jimmy Ellis and light heavyweight champion Bob Foster. Also beat Ellis later, and Quarry twice, and Bonavena, Bugner and Mathis. Lost to Ali twice and Foreman twice. Never fought Patterson, Shavers, Young, Lyle, or Norton.

Syntax Error wrote:I'd say the third one because both men suddenly realised how great the other one was & nearly expired trying to beat each other.

So it took until the third fight for each to suddenly figure out how great the other was, eh?

Is that your take?

Uh, reality calling.

Both men knew the other was great PRIOR to their first fight. If anyone says different, it is bull crap.

yancey wrote:

Syntax Error wrote:I'd say the third one because both men suddenly realised how great the other one was & nearly expired trying to beat each other.

So it took until the third fight for each to suddenly figure out how great the other was, eh?

Is that your take?

Uh, reality calling.

Both men knew the other was great PRIOR to their first fight. If anyone says different, it is bull crap.

It wasn't meant a literal statement of fact.

Obviously they both knew how great the other was, but I believe there was an element of ego & taking each other for granted in the first 2 fights.

Fight 1, Frazier whips Ali, but Ali claims that Frazier was in the hospital longer & he wasn't quite in his peak.

Fight 2, Ali holds Frazier more than Mrs Frazier ever held Joe & Joe is quite rightly peed off & thinks he really won the fight.

Fight 3, Ali thinks Joe is washed up; Joe thinks Ali can't take what he's got for 15 rounds & both of them come away from the bout with newfound respect for each other after beating each other half to death.

Il Duce wrote:

scallum wrote:Take away the first fight how does Frazier resume look? Did he beat any other Champions or former Champions

Joe Frazer did that something that nobody else had ever done.............. 'Stopped' George Chuvalo

Cassius Clay/Muhammad Ali couldn't stop George Chuvalo with a 10 lb. Sledge-Hammer.................ever.

Ali knocked out George Foreman, yet Joe couldn't manage it in TWO fights with the big man.

Such comparisions are futile, when talking about differing styles, punch power etc.