BoxRec

clopixolacuphase wrote:Peter Fury was interviewed recently, I can't remember where, and he did the usual Fury thing about how they are from a long lineage of fighters and he mentioned Uriah Burton as being a relative and how he had been king of the gypsies in his time. I think it was boxing monthly or boxing news. I'll have a look to see if I threw it out.

Cue our resident gypsy historian... Henry, where are you?

Metal Fingers wrote:

clopixolacuphase wrote:Peter Fury was interviewed recently, I can't remember where, and he did the usual Fury thing about how they are from a long lineage of fighters and he mentioned Uriah Burton as being a relative and how he had been king of the gypsies in his time. I think it was boxing monthly or boxing news. I'll have a look to see if I threw it out.

Cue our resident gypsy historian... Henry, where are you?

I did that one for BM. He talked about what he learned from Burton as a youngster. It will be posted online once the new mag is released.

Bleak wrote:

mickey1975 wrote:Burton would have a lot more support from the travelling lads. Gorman isn't highly thought of. John Partridge is seen as a good man to have a drink with. If you'd like to see how the lads all carry on now, go on York Press website and see what happened yesterday. Absolutely no fair play.

Thought Gorman was well thought of

palooka wrote:It's never been about a fair fight, Henry Francis said it's important how many people you can bring with you.

palooka wrote:

Metal Fingers wrote:

clopixolacuphase wrote:Peter Fury was interviewed recently, I can't remember where, and he did the usual Fury thing about how they are from a long lineage of fighters and he mentioned Uriah Burton as being a relative and how he had been king of the gypsies in his time. I think it was boxing monthly or boxing news. I'll have a look to see if I threw it out.

Cue our resident gypsy historian... Henry, where are you?

I did that one for BM. He talked about what he learned from Burton as a youngster. It will be posted online once the new mag is released.

When's the next issue out, Terry?

mickey1975 wrote:

palooka wrote:It's never been about a fair fight, Henry Francis said it's important how many people you can bring with you.

Honestly, the things they were up to on Wednesday defy belief...

mickey1975 wrote:Guns, knives and weapons in a cemetery and those attacking the mourners is pretty bad however you look at it!

Loftgroov wrote:
Who really knows. His book is a good read and he seemed to have genuine morals and dislike for those who don’t. He was clearly tough and could give someone a belting, but the chapter where is talks about holding his own with Muhammad Ali, if only he’d gotten the chance, is probably a bit fanciful.

HomicideHenry wrote:
In fairness to Gorman, when he met Ali in the 1980's, Ali was clearly beginning to deteriorate from Parkinson's Syndrome. From what I recall of the book, Gorman said AT THAT TIME he felt he could have taken him.

But at that time, I imagine alot of men (Gorman included) gloves or no gloves could have beaten Ali.

HomicideHenry wrote:

Loftgroov wrote:
Who really knows. His book is a good read and he seemed to have genuine morals and dislike for those who don’t. He was clearly tough and could give someone a belting, but the chapter where is talks about holding his own with Muhammad Ali, if only he’d gotten the chance, is probably a bit fanciful.

In fairness to Gorman, when he met Ali in the 1980's, Ali was clearly beginning to deteriorate from Parkinson's Syndrome. From what I recall of the book, Gorman said AT THAT TIME he felt he could have taken him. Now had Gorman said he felt he could have taken Ali at his best, or near best, etc. then I would agree with you on the matter. But at that time, I imagine alot of men (Gorman included) gloves or no gloves could have beaten Ali. I believe it was 1983 when Gorman met Ali and it was in 1984 that Ali was officially diagnosed.

As for the comments made elsewhere in your post, I agree with you (by and large). I always tell people that boxing is boxing regardless of gloves or fists, and that it comes down strictly to skills and abilities. Take a gander sometime at videos of Paddy Jaws Ward fighting the McGinley's and you will see what I mean. Ward, at one time, represented Ireland in the amateurs and turned pro (until he was caught bare knuckle fighting and his license revoked forever) and whenever he does bare knuckle bouts he is always calm, poised, at ease and defeats these "hard cases" without much difficulty, usually in three minutes or less.

That's why whenever I watch the YouTube battles, I do a little background research on the "fighters" in question. 99% of the contests are between loud mouths with no real ability. It still is entertaining, but nothing to really talk about. You can see the same sort of ability and "skill" in a bar room on a Saturday night anywhere in the free world. However, every once in a while you will see a guy who has skills and chops these cavemen to bits, and is all but untouchable. Now, in a pro boxing setting, they might just be average boxers or slightly above average.

However, that is why I generally hold someone like Gorman to a high degree over the likes of (say) Joe Joyce and others who have much storied "careers" because it is documented that Gorman did compete in the amateurs for quite a long while. He did have experience sparring with some pros, and managed to do well. And, because of that, he was better than most out there in the bare knuckle world. Now, was there better gypsies than him? Sure there was. Johnny Frankham was far and away better. Why? Because Frankham had better skills. He was more elusive, he was fast, and he managed to fight for the gloved championship of his country in what was a highly competitive fight. In a hypothetical "fight" between him and Gorman, I'd lean towards Frankham. It's a safe bet.

Now, throw Gorman in with the likes of Lenny McLean, and the story changes.

mickey1975 wrote:Burton would have a lot more support from the travelling lads. Gorman isn't highly thought of. John Partridge is seen as a good man to have a drink with. If you'd like to see how the lads all carry on now, go on York Press website and see what happened yesterday. Absolutely no fair play.

Fat Git wrote:

HomicideHenry wrote:
In fairness to Gorman, when he met Ali in the 1980's, Ali was clearly beginning to deteriorate from Parkinson's Syndrome. From what I recall of the book, Gorman said AT THAT TIME he felt he could have taken him.

But at that time, I imagine alot of men (Gorman included) gloves or no gloves could have beaten Ali.

Tomasino wrote:

HomicideHenry wrote:

Loftgroov wrote:


Potentially your most retarded post ever. Potentially. There is fierce competition however. You don't know a effing thing about Frankham that's not on the web. Your not first hand in anyway. I love you Rufus.

HomicideHenry wrote:
You don't think Ali, riddled with Parkinson's Disease, couldn't be beaten by the most preliminary of boxers?

I don't know what is more "outrageous", my position that he could or your position that he couldn't.

Fat Git wrote:

HomicideHenry wrote:
You don't think Ali, riddled with Parkinson's Disease, couldn't be beaten by the most preliminary of boxers?

I don't know what is more "outrageous", my position that he could or your position that he couldn't.

No, I don't as it happens, not in the early 80's anyway.

In 1981, Ali hung tough for 10 rounds against a prime Trevor Berbick, who was a very tough heavyweight.

Bartley Gorman would have lasted nearly 10 seconds with Trevor Berbick, and that is why I concluded that
your comment was indeed, silly.

palooka wrote:Trevor Berbick is underated, he was a big, strong and game fighter. I've no doubt at all he'd have destroyed a much less experienced boxer such as Gorman.

Loftgroov wrote: ↑19 Feb 2016, 12:59 Big Just was a hard man, but when it comes to the cobbles there's not a man born of his mother that can beat me

mickey1975 wrote: ↑20 May 2014, 16:26

nelsoninfour wrote:I always wondered is Hosea related.
Uriah burton in Bartley Gorman book was a travelling fighting legend

It's his Grandad I think, and Fury's.

Matt the Master wrote: ↑28 Nov 2017, 06:29

mickey1975 wrote: ↑20 May 2014, 16:26

nelsoninfour wrote:I always wondered is Hosea related.
Uriah burton in Bartley Gorman book was a travelling fighting legend

It's his Grandad I think, and Fury's.

Uriah 'Hughie/Big Just' Burton is the deceased Grand Uncle of Hosea Burton and the Grand Uncle of Tyson Fury. Uriah's older brother 'Oathy' (Hosea) is the young British Light Heavyweight's paternal Grand Father, his Father (Oathy's son) is also called Hosea/Oathy would you believe. John Fury (Tyson's dad who needs no introduction here, and I'm referring to John Fury not John Partridge ) married one of Uriah's brother Oathy's daughters, and Tyson was the first progeny resulting from this union, so Tyson and Hosea Jr are cousins through the Burton clan, it's a wonderful thing in my opinion to have such a big extended family like theirs, so many brothers sisters and cousins, complicated though, but coming from a smaller family (in comparison to Travellers/Gypsies, but then whose isn't !) I find it kind of nostalgic ! Though I could have just shortened this post by saying Oathy, Uriah's brother, is Hosea Burtons paternal Grand Father, and Uriah his paternal Grand Uncle, and the same are Tyson Fury's maternal Grand Father and maternal Grand Uncle respectively, but I digress....