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Re: david haye plans
Posted: 03 Jul 2014, 15:40
by moogie101
People are confusing his personality & recent pullouts with his boxing skill. Easily the best British Heavy out there, by a wide margin.
He's still enough of a name that a quick win & he'll be back in talks for a title shot & with the current crop of top Heavyweights who can say he doesn't deserve it.
Fair enough he struggled against Wlad, but everyone does so hardly a knock against him.
But as already said if I signed to fight him I'd want 100% of the purse "just in case"
Re: david haye plans
Posted: 03 Jul 2014, 16:34
by Andrew
He's lost creditibilty amongst the hardcore but the casuals will buy into it.
Have to agree that if any fighter were to sign up for a fight a deposit of your purse is essential.
Re: david haye plans
Posted: 03 Jul 2014, 20:49
by tiny_acres
Finn wrote:Sounds like a good route to me he should be looking at a warm up again a fringe contender / higher European level then move up the ladder from there. Haye's the 3rd best HW on the planet; it will be interesting to see if Wilder who was happy to fight Audley after sparring with him, will be as keen to fight haye.
If haye was looking shocking in sparring, as many people are claiming was his reason from pulling out of fights, then surely wilder will be shouting from the rooftops to face him because it would be a huge fight in the UK and US; if he steers clear its a good indication that Haye was battering him in sparring as the rumours suggest.
If I was Wilder's management I would not face Haye anytime soon.Wilder is the mandatory challenger for
the WBC belt.Why would you risk it even if you have held your own With Haye in sparring?It makes no sense financially.
Re: david haye plans
Posted: 03 Jul 2014, 21:36
by Taansend
dbf wrote:Haye wasn't excellent as a cruiserweight. He struggled with fragmeni, looked poor against the stiff (forgot his name) he went 12 with. Wasn't exactly dominating Mormeck before the stoppage.
He achieved well at the weight but wasn't this excellent fighter people sometimes make out. He showed plenty of vulnerabilities. He was an explosive power puncher with good hand speed.
Haye is the only opponent Mormeck hasn't beaten at Cruiserweight.
But I am just being pedantic.
I agree with your 2nd paragraph, especially the last sentence. I expected a lot more from Haye after watching him as an Amateur. I think his excellent self promotion skills fooled a few of us - and fair play to the lad.
In his defence he is from South East London & we're known to talk a load of old bollocks.
Re: david haye plans
Posted: 04 Jul 2014, 00:44
by dbf
Finn wrote:dbf wrote:Haye wasn't excellent as a cruiserweight. He struggled with fragmeni, looked poor against the stiff (forgot his name) he went 12 with. Wasn't exactly dominating Mormeck before the stoppage.
He achieved well at the weight but wasn't this excellent fighter people sometimes make out. He showed plenty of vulnerabilities. He was an explosive power puncher with good hand speed.
Are we talking about the guy who won his European title in 47 seconds and beat the world number 1?
Sounds good on paper doesn't it. But Gurov wasn't a top ten cruiser even though he was euro champ. As I mentioned the win against mormeck was good but the fight was in the balance.The best he looked at cruiser for me was the maccarinelli fight.
Re: david haye plans
Posted: 06 Jul 2014, 07:15
by Finn
dbf wrote:Finn wrote:dbf wrote:Haye wasn't excellent as a cruiserweight. He struggled with fragmeni, looked poor against the stiff (forgot his name) he went 12 with. Wasn't exactly dominating Mormeck before the stoppage.
He achieved well at the weight but wasn't this excellent fighter people sometimes make out. He showed plenty of vulnerabilities. He was an explosive power puncher with good hand speed.
Are we talking about the guy who won his European title in 47 seconds and beat the world number 1?
Sounds good on paper doesn't it. But Gurov wasn't a top ten cruiser even though he was euro champ. As I mentioned the win against mormeck was good but the fight was in the balance.The best he looked at cruiser for me was the maccarinelli fight.
I tell you what else sounds good on paper being WBA super, WBC, WBO and Ring Cruiser weight world champion, being WBA HW world champion, and a KO ratio of 86%.
Re: david haye plans
Posted: 06 Jul 2014, 07:56
by Tuan_Jim
And yet the WBA heavyweight title Haye won was owned by Wlad K, having taken it from Ruslan Chagaev.
Look, I'm a Haye fan, but his 'heavyweight champion' claim is as flimsy as that of Herbie Hide or Henry Akinwande.
Re: david haye plans
Posted: 06 Jul 2014, 08:00
by polecateddy
Mormeck at his peak was an excellent cruiserweight. That Haye stopped him in the mid-rounds in France - which isn't exactly a fertile winning land historically for British boxers - is a brilliant achievement. For my money Haye was one of the most naturally talented boxers the UK has ever had. It is a shame he didn't gave more top class matches.
Re: david haye plans
Posted: 06 Jul 2014, 08:29
by mickey1975
polecateddy wrote:Mormeck at his peak was an excellent cruiserweight. That Haye stopped him in the mid-rounds in France - which isn't exactly a fertile winning land historically for British boxers - is a brilliant achievement. For my money Haye was one of the most naturally talented boxers the UK has ever had. It is a shame he didn't gave more top class matches.
The old natural talent debate again? It's a shame he didn't have the balls, stamina or chin to go with his natural talent or he could have beaten Thompson and Wlad. Who is the best(p4p), Haye or Dean Francis?
Re: david haye plans
Posted: 06 Jul 2014, 09:06
by squared circle
Stamina has been an issue.
But lacking a chin or balls?
Wow.
Re: david haye plans
Posted: 06 Jul 2014, 09:21
by polecateddy
mickey1975 wrote:polecateddy wrote:Mormeck at his peak was an excellent cruiserweight. That Haye stopped him in the mid-rounds in France - which isn't exactly a fertile winning land historically for British boxers - is a brilliant achievement. For my money Haye was one of the most naturally talented boxers the UK has ever had. It is a shame he didn't gave more top class matches.
The old natural talent debate again? It's a shame he didn't have the balls, stamina or chin to go with his natural talent or he could have beaten Thompson and Wlad. Who is the best(p4p), Haye or Dean Francis?
I think it's a bit silly belittling Dean Francis. He was a kick-ass supermiddle cut off in is prime. By admission he was a far more formidable force than former stable-mate, Glen Catley. As far Haye, his loss to Thompson was down to poor stamina based training at the time which he learned from. Wlad admittedly was too good for him, (and everyone else currently around).
Re: david haye plans
Posted: 06 Jul 2014, 09:49
by mickey1975
polecateddy wrote:mickey1975 wrote:polecateddy wrote:Mormeck at his peak was an excellent cruiserweight. That Haye stopped him in the mid-rounds in France - which isn't exactly a fertile winning land historically for British boxers - is a brilliant achievement. For my money Haye was one of the most naturally talented boxers the UK has ever had. It is a shame he didn't gave more top class matches.
The old natural talent debate again? It's a shame he didn't have the balls, stamina or chin to go with his natural talent or he could have beaten Thompson and Wlad. Who is the best(p4p), Haye or Dean Francis?
I think it's a bit silly belittling Dean Francis. He was a kick-ass supermiddle cut off in is prime. By admission he was a far more formidable force than former stable-mate, Glen Catley. As far Haye, his loss to Thompson was down to poor stamina based training at the time which he learned from. Wlad admittedly was too good for him, (and everyone else currently around).
It was poor tactics and a lack of respect for Thompson, not stamina, that did for Haye. Anyone's tank would empty coming out like that.
Re: david haye plans
Posted: 06 Jul 2014, 10:11
by Dbear
Tuan_Jim wrote:And yet the WBA heavyweight title Haye won was owned by Wlad K, having taken it from Ruslan Chagaev.
Look, I'm a Haye fan, but his 'heavyweight champion' claim is as flimsy as that of Herbie Hide or Henry Akinwande.
Just checked and when chageav faced wladimir the WBA title was not on the line
http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_ ... &cat=boxer
Re: david haye plans
Posted: 06 Jul 2014, 10:17
by handsofstone
If i remember correctly im sure Chagaev was stripped of his WBA title before the scheduled rematch with Valuev for testing positive for Hepatitus,then im sure Valuev ending up beating Holyfield for the vacant belt before losing it to Haye who subsequently lost it to Wlad
Could be wrong though,havent checked
Re: david haye plans
Posted: 06 Jul 2014, 10:21
by tiny_acres
handsofstone wrote:If i remember correctly im sure Chagaev was stripped of his WBA title before the scheduled rematch with Valuev for testing positive for Hepatitus,then im sure Valuev ending up beating Holyfield for the vacant belt before losing it to Haye who subsequently lost it to Wlad
Could be wrong though,havent checked
This is what I remember also
Re: david haye plans
Posted: 06 Jul 2014, 11:03
by Wrists
Anyone who says haye wasn't an excellent cruiserweight is talking out of their arse.
He's also a decent heavyweight as well. He messed fury around but come on he's hardly the devil is he!!????
I for one hope he comes back and excites like we all know he can
Re: david haye plans
Posted: 06 Jul 2014, 11:12
by squared circle
He's been a very good fighter.
Problem is he is a GREAT self-promoter and that sticks in a lot of people's craws
Re: david haye plans
Posted: 06 Jul 2014, 11:13
by jameswilson
If I was Haye I'd be looking to fight Lucas Browne on comeback. He's a guy that has a ranking higher than his skillset and assuming he wins his next fight he will hold a belt that gives him decent rankings in the WBA and WBC.
Re: david haye plans
Posted: 06 Jul 2014, 13:47
by sendo
polecateddy wrote:Mormeck at his peak was an excellent cruiserweight. That Haye stopped him in the mid-rounds in France - which isn't exactly a fertile winning land historically for British boxers - is a brilliant achievement. For my money Haye was one of the most naturally talented boxers the UK has ever had. It is a shame he didn't gave more top class matches.
Agreed, was a fantastic win over Mormeck. For me he's a bit unlucky to not quite fit size-wise in with these superheavys and that cruiser was a dead division money-wise.
Haye koing Mormeck:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyUzTGp9S-s
Re: david haye plans
Posted: 06 Jul 2014, 14:02
by SteveO
handsofstone wrote:If i remember correctly im sure Chagaev was stripped of his WBA title before the scheduled rematch with Valuev for testing positive for Hepatitus,then im sure Valuev ending up beating Holyfield for the vacant belt before losing it to Haye who subsequently lost it to Wlad
Could be wrong though,havent checked
That is correct - Chagaev was the WBA 'champion in recess' at the time.
Chagaev lost his 'champion in recess' status after he was defeated by Wladimir and demoted to WBA #1 contender.
Valuev continued as the 'regular' WBA champion.
Re: david haye plans
Posted: 06 Jul 2014, 14:21
by tiny_acres
SteveO wrote:handsofstone wrote:If i remember correctly im sure Chagaev was stripped of his WBA title before the scheduled rematch with Valuev for testing positive for Hepatitus,then im sure Valuev ending up beating Holyfield for the vacant belt before losing it to Haye who subsequently lost it to Wlad
Could be wrong though,havent checked
That is correct - Chagaev was the WBA 'champion in recess' at the time.
Chagaev lost his 'champion in recess' status after he was defeated by Wladimir and demoted to WBA #1 contender.
Valuev continued as the 'regular' WBA champion.
\
According to Chagaev.He was stripped of the champion in recess for signing to face Klitschko.
Re: david haye plans
Posted: 07 Jul 2014, 08:12
by SteveO
Chagaev was actually demoted to WBA #1 contender on 24th July 2009 - a month after he had lost to Wladimir Klitschko.