BoxRec

RazorKO wrote:

stujones wrote:Lewis first KD of Rudduck was a thing of beauty. How Rudduck got up I'll never know, look at how his legs get taken from under him.

If you combined the athleticism of early 90's Lewis with the experience and know how of late 90's Lewis, you've got just about the perfect Heavyweight.

Except for the fact that he was demolished by two journeymen with a single punch. No other great heavyweight has ever been crushed in that manner.

Tyson ?

bigjack wrote:

RazorKO wrote:

stujones wrote:Lewis first KD of Rudduck was a thing of beauty. How Rudduck got up I'll never know, look at how his legs get taken from under him.

If you combined the athleticism of early 90's Lewis with the experience and know how of late 90's Lewis, you've got just about the perfect Heavyweight.

Except for the fact that he was demolished by two journeymen with a single punch. No other great heavyweight has ever been crushed in that manner.

Tyson ?

I disagree, Tyson had a rock solid chin and a heart of a Lion. And he proved it when going toe to toe with Ruddock, Bruno etc.

Tyson was never sparked by a single shot in any of his losses. And in each of his losses he went out on his shield.

Lewis on the other hand never got to show us his fighting heart, as when the going got tough he found himself on the deck.

RazorKO wrote:
I disagree, Tyson had a rock solid chin and a heart of a Lion. And he proved it when going toe to toe with Ruddock, Bruno etc.

Tyson was never sparked by a single shot in any of his losses. And in each of his losses he went out on his shield.

Lewis on the other hand never got to show us his fighting heart, as when the going got tough he found himself on the deck.

He showed it against Ray Mercer

dookus wrote:

RazorKO wrote:
I disagree, Tyson had a rock solid chin and a heart of a Lion. And he proved it when going toe to toe with Ruddock, Bruno etc.

Tyson was never sparked by a single shot in any of his losses. And in each of his losses he went out on his shield.

Lewis on the other hand never got to show us his fighting heart, as when the going got tough he found himself on the deck.

He showed it against Ray Mercer

And Briggs

And Klitschko

dookus wrote:

RazorKO wrote:
I disagree, Tyson had a rock solid chin and a heart of a Lion. And he proved it when going toe to toe with Ruddock, Bruno etc.

Tyson was never sparked by a single shot in any of his losses. And in each of his losses he went out on his shield.

Lewis on the other hand never got to show us his fighting heart, as when the going got tough he found himself on the deck.

He showed it against Ray Mercer

Yes he did

Lewis dropped Tyson with one right hand,yes he softened him up ready for it,but it was the single shot that did it.He may have come back against McCall,we will never know,as for the first Rahman fight,well that was his own fault,poor preperation,and actually smiling just before the ko.When he needed to show heart,he did

dookus wrote:

RazorKO wrote:
I disagree, Tyson had a rock solid chin and a heart of a Lion. And he proved it when going toe to toe with Ruddock, Bruno etc.

Tyson was never sparked by a single shot in any of his losses. And in each of his losses he went out on his shield.

Lewis on the other hand never got to show us his fighting heart, as when the going got tough he found himself on the deck.

He showed it against Ray Mercer

Lewis had a very good chin,checkout the youtube video,i think it's called 'lewis had an iron chin',anyway as other posters have said,he proved his heart and toughness many times,have you not watched many Lewis fights,he came from behind to beat,Bruno,Vitali Klit,had a very tough time with mason,briggs.He ran straight at Micheal Grant,a huge man and big puncher and destroyed him,he took big punches from him and shook them off.I don't think anyone who watched Lewis fight could ever question his heart and fighting pride,he never avoided any man,unlike Tyson who paid off Lewis.Lewis got hit by a sledghammer from Rahman and couldn't get up in time,that would have ko'd many fighters.A fully switched on Lewis was a very,very difficult man to beat,ask everyone of his opponents,who he beat by the way.

stujones wrote:Lewis first KD of Rudduck was a thing of beauty. How Rudduck got up I'll never know, look at how his legs get taken from under him.

If you combined the athleticism of early 90's Lewis with the experience and know how of late 90's Lewis, you've got just about the perfect Heavyweight.

I remember listening to this on the radio.... I thought I'd misheard it.... Good days

bigjack wrote:

dookus wrote:

RazorKO wrote:
I disagree, Tyson had a rock solid chin and a heart of a Lion. And he proved it when going toe to toe with Ruddock, Bruno etc.

Tyson was never sparked by a single shot in any of his losses. And in each of his losses he went out on his shield.

Lewis on the other hand never got to show us his fighting heart, as when the going got tough he found himself on the deck.

He showed it against Ray Mercer

Lewis had a very good chin,checkout the youtube video,i think it's called 'lewis had an iron chin',anyway as other posters have said,he proved his heart and toughness many times,have you not watched many Lewis fights,he came from behind to beat,Bruno,Vitali Klit,had a very tough time with mason,briggs.He ran straight at Micheal Grant,a huge man and big puncher and destroyed him,he took big punches from him and shook them off.I don't think anyone who watched Lewis fight could ever question his heart and fighting pride,he never avoided any man,unlike Tyson who paid off Lewis.Lewis got hit by a sledghammer from Rahman and couldn't get up in time,that would have ko'd many fighters.A fully switched on Lewis was a very,very difficult man to beat,ask everyone of his opponents,who he beat by the way.

Lewis had an average chin at best, if he had a great chin, he wouldnt of been knocked out by Rahman and McCall, neither of whom are known to be big punchers. Bruno was outboxing Lewis, it was a hardly a battle of Ali-Frazier proportions, until Lewis resorted to putting his left glove on Brunos head holding it still, and uppercutting him with the other, he also pulled the same move on Grant. Both should of been DQ losses.

Ill give you Vitali though, that was the only fight Lewis showed some kind of resisilence under pressure, but if not for the cut eye stoppage, Lewis would of been on the floor sooner or later.

Tyson certainly did not avoid anyone, he fought Lewis at his absolute peak, while Tyson was shot, unmotivated, and just fighting at that stage for the money. Tyson at his peak would of taken care of Lewis faster than McCall.

Razorko

I never said lewis had a great chin,i said it was very good,and i think you'll find tyson did duck lewis and paid him step aside money,check it out.As for the DQ losses,well that's a laugh,your the first person i have ever heard say lewis fouled against those two,it's heavyweight boxing for christs sake,both bruno and tyson were masters at the art of foul play.Have you not watched the mercer fight,lewis showed real grit in that one and fought the wrong fight and won.As for vitali going on to ko lewis,please don't start that again,go on facts not what ifs and maybes,you just don't like lewis do you ?,even so,don't try to say he was chinny and had no heart,how many other heavies beat every man they fought ?,coming back to stop the 2 opponents who beat him shows real guts and heart and determination.

DQ losses for holding and hitting twice. Give me a break.

Karl Jade wrote:DQ losses for holding and hitting twice. Give me a break.

Exactly what bollox

bigjack wrote:Razorko

I never said lewis had a great chin,i said it was very good,and i think you'll find tyson did duck lewis and paid him step aside money,check it out.As for the DQ losses,well that's a laugh,your the first person i have ever heard say lewis fouled against those two,it's heavyweight boxing for christs sake,both bruno and tyson were masters at the art of foul play.Have you not watched the mercer fight,lewis showed real grit in that one and fought the wrong fight and won.As for vitali going on to ko lewis,please don't start that again,go on facts not what ifs and maybes,you just don't like lewis do you ?,even so,don't try to say he was chinny and had no heart,how many other heavies beat every man they fought ?,coming back to stop the 2 opponents who beat him shows real guts and heart and determination.

Yep my mistake, I disagree with the very good part though. If you look through his career, he was shaken up by Briggs, Bruno, Mavrovic, Klitshcko and Tucker. Knocked down by Akiwande, and knocked out by Rahman and McCall. With the exception of Bruno, and perhaps Klitschko (debatable) none of these fighters were world class punchers.

Yep I did a bit of research, and you're right Tyson did pay Lewis to step aside. But to be honest, Tyson was so shot at that point that even if Lewis did beat Tyson a few years earlier, it would of been no accomplishment. Frans Botha was even outboxing Tyson at that stage of his career for christ sake! Lewis knocking out Tyson when he did, is comparable to Holmes stopping Ali, or Norris beating Leonard.

The Mercer fight was a good some what competitive fight, but hardly a fight where Lewis showed heart. He was outmuscled and out gunned for the majority of it. Infact I scored it for Mercer 7-3. Lewis held on for dear life for the most part, a feat which he will repeat when he fought Tua and later Tyson.

Whether people like it or not, holding your opponents head into position, then punching with your other hand is an illegal move, and Lewis did this twice. Lewis should of at least been penalised. Bruno and Grant should of also been granted time to recover.

I respect Lewis for what he has done in the ring, but I also tell it how it is, Lewis doesnt deserve to be in the top 10 let alone top 15. If Lewis was American, I will garantee that the Brits wouldn't be hyping him up as much.

RazorKO wrote:

bigjack wrote:Razorko

I never said lewis had a great chin,i said it was very good,and i think you'll find tyson did duck lewis and paid him step aside money,check it out.As for the DQ losses,well that's a laugh,your the first person i have ever heard say lewis fouled against those two,it's heavyweight boxing for christs sake,both bruno and tyson were masters at the art of foul play.Have you not watched the mercer fight,lewis showed real grit in that one and fought the wrong fight and won.As for vitali going on to ko lewis,please don't start that again,go on facts not what ifs and maybes,you just don't like lewis do you ?,even so,don't try to say he was chinny and had no heart,how many other heavies beat every man they fought ?,coming back to stop the 2 opponents who beat him shows real guts and heart and determination.

Yep my mistake, I disagree with the very good part though. If you look through his career, he was shaken up by Briggs, Bruno, Mavrovic, Klitshcko and Tucker. Knocked down by Akiwande, and knocked out by Rahman and McCall. With the exception of Bruno, and perhaps Klitschko (debatable) none of these fighters were world class punchers.

Yep I did a bit of research, and you're right Tyson did pay Lewis to step aside. But to be honest, Tyson was so shot at that point that even if Lewis did beat Tyson a few years earlier, it would of been no accomplishment. Frans Botha was even outboxing Tyson at that stage of his career for christ sake! Lewis knocking out Tyson when he did, is comparable to Holmes stopping Ali, or Norris beating Leonard.

The Mercer fight was a good some what competitive fight, but hardly a fight where Lewis showed heart. He was outmuscled and out gunned for the majority of it. Infact I scored it for Mercer 7-3. Lewis held on for dear life for the most part, a feat which he will repeat when he fought Tua and later Tyson.

Whether people like it or not, holding your opponents head into position, then punching with your other hand is an illegal move, and Lewis did this twice. Lewis should of at least been penalised. Bruno and Grant should of also been granted time to recover.

I respect Lewis for what he has done in the ring, but I also tell it how it is, Lewis doesnt deserve to be in the top 10 let alone top 15. If Lewis was American, I will garantee that the Brits wouldn't be hyping him up as much.

If you had to go back and research something that's well known even to casual boxing fans, I can't help wondering how much you've actually seen of Lewis's career?

Boxerbeetle123 wrote:

RazorKO wrote:

bigjack wrote:Razorko

I never said lewis had a great chin,i said it was very good,and i think you'll find tyson did duck lewis and paid him step aside money,check it out.As for the DQ losses,well that's a laugh,your the first person i have ever heard say lewis fouled against those two,it's heavyweight boxing for christs sake,both bruno and tyson were masters at the art of foul play.Have you not watched the mercer fight,lewis showed real grit in that one and fought the wrong fight and won.As for vitali going on to ko lewis,please don't start that again,go on facts not what ifs and maybes,you just don't like lewis do you ?,even so,don't try to say he was chinny and had no heart,how many other heavies beat every man they fought ?,coming back to stop the 2 opponents who beat him shows real guts and heart and determination.

Yep my mistake, I disagree with the very good part though. If you look through his career, he was shaken up by Briggs, Bruno, Mavrovic, Klitshcko and Tucker. Knocked down by Akiwande, and knocked out by Rahman and McCall. With the exception of Bruno, and perhaps Klitschko (debatable) none of these fighters were world class punchers.

Yep I did a bit of research, and you're right Tyson did pay Lewis to step aside. But to be honest, Tyson was so shot at that point that even if Lewis did beat Tyson a few years earlier, it would of been no accomplishment. Frans Botha was even outboxing Tyson at that stage of his career for christ sake! Lewis knocking out Tyson when he did, is comparable to Holmes stopping Ali, or Norris beating Leonard.

The Mercer fight was a good some what competitive fight, but hardly a fight where Lewis showed heart. He was outmuscled and out gunned for the majority of it. Infact I scored it for Mercer 7-3. Lewis held on for dear life for the most part, a feat which he will repeat when he fought Tua and later Tyson.

Whether people like it or not, holding your opponents head into position, then punching with your other hand is an illegal move, and Lewis did this twice. Lewis should of at least been penalised. Bruno and Grant should of also been granted time to recover.

I respect Lewis for what he has done in the ring, but I also tell it how it is, Lewis doesnt deserve to be in the top 10 let alone top 15. If Lewis was American, I will garantee that the Brits wouldn't be hyping him up as much.

If you had to go back and research something that's well known even to casual boxing fans, I can't help wondering how much you've actually seen of Lewis's career?

That's exactly my point,twisting things around to suit a lack of knowledge i think,i could still pick holes in your latest reply but i think the support from other posters shows i probably don't need to,as for being shaken up in those fights you mention,i suppose you could say tyson got shaken up by bonecrusher smith,so that means he had a dodgy chin does it lol

RazorKO wrote:

bigjack wrote:Razorko

I never said lewis had a great chin,i said it was very good,and i think you'll find tyson did duck lewis and paid him step aside money,check it out.As for the DQ losses,well that's a laugh,your the first person i have ever heard say lewis fouled against those two,it's heavyweight boxing for christs sake,both bruno and tyson were masters at the art of foul play.Have you not watched the mercer fight,lewis showed real grit in that one and fought the wrong fight and won.As for vitali going on to ko lewis,please don't start that again,go on facts not what ifs and maybes,you just don't like lewis do you ?,even so,don't try to say he was chinny and had no heart,how many other heavies beat every man they fought ?,coming back to stop the 2 opponents who beat him shows real guts and heart and determination.

Yep my mistake, I disagree with the very good part though. If you look through his career, he was shaken up by Briggs, Bruno, Mavrovic, Klitshcko and Tucker. Knocked down by Akiwande, and knocked out by Rahman and McCall. With the exception of Bruno, and perhaps Klitschko (debatable) none of these fighters were world class punchers.

Yep I did a bit of research, and you're right Tyson did pay Lewis to step aside. But to be honest, Tyson was so shot at that point that even if Lewis did beat Tyson a few years earlier, it would of been no accomplishment. Frans Botha was even outboxing Tyson at that stage of his career for christ sake! Lewis knocking out Tyson when he did, is comparable to Holmes stopping Ali, or Norris beating Leonard.

The Mercer fight was a good some what competitive fight, but hardly a fight where Lewis showed heart. He was outmuscled and out gunned for the majority of it. Infact I scored it for Mercer 7-3. Lewis held on for dear life for the most part, a feat which he will repeat when he fought Tua and later Tyson.

Whether people like it or not, holding your opponents head into position, then punching with your other hand is an illegal move, and Lewis did this twice. Lewis should of at least been penalised. Bruno and Grant should of also been granted time to recover.

I respect Lewis for what he has done in the ring, but I also tell it how it is, Lewis doesnt deserve to be in the top 10 let alone top 15. If Lewis was American, I will garantee that the Brits wouldn't be hyping him up as much.

Are you really saying lewis held on for dear life against 2 opponents that he completely outboxed,dear,dear me,you are seeing things slightly different to everyone else in the WHOLE WORLD,i despair,i really do

dont feed the troll, especially Tyson trolls.

just plain retarded posting.

J wrote:dont feed the troll, especially Tyson trolls.

just plain retarded posting.

RazorKO wrote:

bigjack wrote:

RazorKO wrote:Lewis first KD of Rudduck was a thing of beauty. How Rudduck got up I'll never know, look at how his legs get taken from under him.

If you combined the athleticism of early 90's Lewis with the experience and know how of late 90's Lewis, you've got just about the perfect Heavyweight.

Except for the fact that he was demolished by two journeymen with a single punch. No other great heavyweight has ever been crushed in that manner.

Tyson ?

I disagree, Tyson had a rock solid chin and a heart of a Lion. And he proved it when going toe to toe with Ruddock, Bruno etc.

Tyson was never sparked by a single shot in any of his losses. And in each of his losses he went out on his shield.

Lewis on the other hand never got to show us his fighting heart, as when the going got tough he found himself on the deck.[/quote]




You my friend are one shite talking koont.

I'd have picked Ali over any version of Lewis, too quick, too smart, too tough. On his day, I can see Lewis beating almost anyone, but then he could also get sparked out - Liston in his prime I think would have taken him apart. A prime Foreman - now that would have been a hell of a fight. I still say that had Ali not come along and destroyed him, Foreman would have been champion for several more years.

It may not have been Lewis' fault, but he fought the good names when they were shot. Saying that proved he was the best of his generation is like saying Calzaghe proved himself better than Hopkins and Jones with his legend killing tour.

Then again, everyone reaches their peak at the same time, so a lot will be conjecture. He may well have beaten them, we will never know.

Either way, the great names of the division wouldn't ever get banged out by Oliver McCall and Hasim Rahman. The fact he came back and beat them is more of a sad indication that he shouldn't have lost to them in the first place.

A really good heavyweight, but not at the top table I don't think

thepocketrocket wrote:It may not have been Lewis' fault, but he fought the good names when they were shot. Saying that proved he was the best of his generation is like saying Calzaghe proved himself better than Hopkins and Jones with his legend killing tour.

Then again, everyone reaches their peak at the same time, so a lot will be conjecture. He may well have beaten them, we will never know.

Either way, the great names of the division wouldn't ever get banged out by Oliver McCall and Hasim Rahman. The fact he came back and beat them is more of a sad indication that he shouldn't have lost to them in the first place.

A really good heavyweight, but not at the top table I don't think

There really aren't that many really great heavyweights to rank above him, Ali, of course, Holmes, for sure, but after that it becomes difficult to find that many heavyweights who were dominant for long enough over good enough opposition. I'd say Louis' longevity earns him a spot above Lewis, I'd place Holyfield up there because despite his losses, he operated at a very high level for so long, but Frazier - very brief peak, Liston - not too many defences - Foreman, possibly, Marciano - weak era, it's hard for me not to put Lewis in the top 10.

As you say, those two losses were a bad stain, and he should never have lost to those men, and I do think it did show that Lewis was capable of being complacent.

bigjack wrote:

RazorKO wrote:

stujones wrote:Lewis first KD of Rudduck was a thing of beauty. How Rudduck got up I'll never know, look at how his legs get taken from under him.

If you combined the athleticism of early 90's Lewis with the experience and know how of late 90's Lewis, you've got just about the perfect Heavyweight.

Except for the fact that he was demolished by two journeymen with a single punch. No other great heavyweight has ever been crushed in that manner.

Tyson ?

i hope that is a joke , tyson lost to williams ect when he 15 years past it the same as ali did to berbick and leonard to camacho

jamesmcdonnell wrote:

thepocketrocket wrote:It may not have been Lewis' fault, but he fought the good names when they were shot. Saying that proved he was the best of his generation is like saying Calzaghe proved himself better than Hopkins and Jones with his legend killing tour.

Then again, everyone reaches their peak at the same time, so a lot will be conjecture. He may well have beaten them, we will never know.

Either way, the great names of the division wouldn't ever get banged out by Oliver McCall and Hasim Rahman. The fact he came back and beat them is more of a sad indication that he shouldn't have lost to them in the first place.

A really good heavyweight, but not at the top table I don't think

There really aren't that many really great heavyweights to rank above him, Ali, of course, Holmes, for sure, but after that it becomes difficult to find that many heavyweights who were dominant for long enough over good enough opposition. I'd say Louis' longevity earns him a spot above Lewis, I'd place Holyfield up there because despite his losses, he operated at a very high level for so long, but Frazier - very brief peak, Liston - not too many defences - Foreman, possibly, Marciano - weak era, it's hard for me not to put Lewis in the top 10.

As you say, those two losses were a bad stain, and he should never have lost to those men, and I do think it did show that Lewis was capable of being complacent.

Oh, total agreement. He makes my top ten, no probs. I am just not buying the 'Lewis is one of the three greatest of all time' stuff.

Always find it hard to rate old fighters though. One title, and I barely saw them, bar a few highlight reels. That is why i tend to veer away from the discussions