BoxRec

Counter-puncher wrote:Japanese boxing seems much more Darwinian than over here, and that's a good thing.

I agree.

I've long argued that the best way to sort out the small hall scene is to have onsite betting. It would remove the requirement for friends and family to be the main customers - you don't go to the races because you know the horse. It would require strong sanctions for cheating but could be a real boon for the business/sport.

Sklar wrote:

Counter-puncher wrote:Japanese boxing seems much more Darwinian than over here, and that's a good thing.

I agree.

I've long argued that the best way to sort out the small hall scene is to have onsite betting. It would remove the requirement for friends and family to be the main customers - you don't go to the races because you know the horse. It would require strong sanctions for cheating but could be a real boon for the business/sport.

That's actually a really sound idea.

columbo wrote:

black panther wrote:

Datsue wrote:OP: Yes, it should.

The ability of some "fans" to defend the shittiest, stupidest, most embarrassing aspects of boxing never ceases to amaze me.

We don't need mismatches or stupid fuckin' titles or that American style TV stranglehold thing where if you're properly connected you get TV exposure fighting nobodies, in front of nobodies, & then get a big fight at the end of it. Yet mention any of the above & you get someone along within seconds whining about "it's just how it's done!"

How about, we expect/demand the sport to be run fuckin' properly for once?

There would still be work for journeymen out there - this rule would be banning people who give a poor effort not people with poor records.

The only problem journeymen might say is that if they come to win they won't get work.

That is a problem with the mindset of promoters I guess.

Why cant journeyman just fight other journeyman? Ok they wouldnt be journeyman anymore by definition but it would provide interesting, competitive matchups.

Think about it mate; who is going to pay to see that? Journeymen are journeymen for a reason mate; not because they're not good enough. It's often because they can't sell tickets so have to go on the road as an opponent to get fights.

black panther wrote:

columbo wrote:

black panther wrote:

There would still be work for journeymen out there - this rule would be banning people who give a poor effort not people with poor records.

The only problem journeymen might say is that if they come to win they won't get work.

That is a problem with the mindset of promoters I guess.

Why cant journeyman just fight other journeyman? Ok they wouldnt be journeyman anymore by definition but it would provide interesting, competitive matchups.

Think about it mate; who is going to pay to see that? Journeymen are journeymen for a reason mate; not because they're not good enough. It's often because they can't sell tickets so have to go on the road as an opponent to get fights.

They could provide filler lower down on a card!

Datsue wrote:

Sklar wrote:

Counter-puncher wrote:Japanese boxing seems much more Darwinian than over here, and that's a good thing.

I agree.

I've long argued that the best way to sort out the small hall scene is to have onsite betting. It would remove the requirement for friends and family to be the main customers - you don't go to the races because you know the horse. It would require strong sanctions for cheating but could be a real boon for the business/sport.

That's actually a really sound idea.

I'm unsure how it stacks up from the bookies' POV.

Some of the shows with onsite betting I've attended in Asia were blatantly rigged, some weren't. In either case it was a good night out. That people had cash riding on the outcome built the atmosphere.

Datsue wrote:

punchoutsb wrote:

Boxing Prospect wrote:
Does blasting out a bum really get a guy noticed more than beating a good domestic opponent? Did Eubank's win last week get him more attention than if he'd stepped up to the plate and fought Blackwell/Etches/Ryder/O'Sullivan/Butler?

No it doesn't...but again, what does a young up and coming prospect looking to build his name do if he's not ready for a good domestic opponent? Not everyone can make the step up in class at the same time, but they still have a right to try and build buzz and momentum around their career.

No, they don't.

They actually do not have that right. That's not a effing right.

Really? Maximizing earning potential so you can earn a living wage from your job could easily be considered a right...

But even if right was the wrong word to use, fighters can and should maximize they're earning potential. They can only do this within the confines of their own skill set. You may get a guy with zero amateur experience who is unable to beat a decent journeyman. He makes himself some money against nobodies, builds himself a nice little record, and then cashes out against a real prospect. Building and marketing your fighter is vital in this day and age. Boxing is a business for the fighters too. If they didn't want to earn money for it, they'd take the bar fighter route.

These guys are investing in their future hoping for the biggest return. A glossy record goes a long way to set up a good payday these days, ESPECIALLY if the guy doesn't have any fanfare as a highly decorated amateur or something.

punchoutsb wrote:
Really? Maximizing earning potential so you can earn a living wage from your job could easily be considered a right...

But even if right was the wrong word to use, fighters can and should maximize they're earning potential. They can only do this within the confines of their own skill set. You may get a guy with zero amateur experience who is unable to beat a decent journeyman. He makes himself some money against nobodies, builds himself a nice little record, and then cashes out against a real prospect. Building and marketing your fighter is vital in this day and age. Boxing is a business for the fighters too. If they didn't want to earn money for it, they'd take the bar fighter route.

These guys are investing in their future hoping for the biggest return. A glossy record goes a long way to set up a good payday these days, ESPECIALLY if the guy doesn't have any fanfare as a highly decorated amateur or something.

People invest all the time and investments go tits up in all fields. Why should boxing be an invest that bucks the trend there?

If a GOOD fighter wants to maximise their earnings then surely they want to race through the ranks and get MORE pays days at the top rather than more small pay days for knocking over Igor and Mikial from the Ukrainian pubs?

Boxing is a business for fighters but, as with any business, the customers are the ones who pay them. The custom base for boxing is dwindling because the customers feel like they are getting the shaft...if there is a dwindling customer base then you need to change your business plan.

And yes really, NO fighter has a RIGHT to earn money as a fighter. If I want into porn and couldn't perform I wouldn't have a right to big money either.

Right was apparently the wrong word...though I do feel it is your right to try to maximize your profits regardless of your field. Since I mentioned investment, lets use that as an example.

If I sign a legally binding document saying every ten dollars you give me will get you 500 hundred back (limit of ten times), you'd be a fool to not take it. The time will come when you will take bigger risks, and want bigger rewards. You'll want to truly learn the markets. That's fine. But in the beginning why wouldn't you take that easy money to put yourself in a better position to take bigger risks?

Using that logic why not fight weekly for a small purse? Run up a 270-0 record against guys willing to topple over (that you haven't got any bans on) over the space of 5 years and pick up a bucket load of small payments...

Boxing Prospect wrote:Using that logic why not fight weekly for a small purse? Run up a 270-0 record against guys willing to topple over (that you haven't got any bans on) over the space of 5 years and pick up a bucket load of small payments...

That's why I put a limit of ten. I already said guys like Wilder or Eubank are bottom feeders. They need to step up. Fantastic amateurs can skip this step. But if I (less than twenty amateur fights and some toughman) turn pro, I'd like to build some buzz about myself before I step up.

punchoutsb wrote:

Boxing Prospect wrote:Using that logic why not fight weekly for a small purse? Run up a 270-0 record against guys willing to topple over (that you haven't got any bans on) over the space of 5 years and pick up a bucket load of small payments...

That's why I put a limit of ten. I already said guys like Wilder or Eubank are bottom feeders. They need to step up. Fantastic amateurs can skip this step. But if I (less than twenty amateur fights and some toughman) turn pro, I'd like to build some buzz about myself before I step up.

If you're going to go the investment route though, why stick any limit? A safety first investment is a safety first investment afterall...

Building buzz by beating guys who come to fight is a bigger achievement than guys who come over to fall over. One of my favour British journeymen is Ryan Clark who always seems to come to fight and doesn't just turn up. Like wise Filipino Marjohn Yap turns up to fight. They might lose but they give an effort, help improve the prospect, and stopping them creates buzz. That is surely better to the paying public and to you as a developing fighter?

It's much better for development, yes.

It's easier to sell 10-0 with 10 KO wins than it is to sell 10-0 with 2 KO wins and 3 split decisions. I hate how much importance is placed on records today. But right now that's the way it works.

The perfect fight for this debate has just happened on FNF.

Immanuwel Aleem 9-0 vs Juan Carlos Rojas 5-6-1. I won't spoil the result, because it was a very good fight.

Einherjar wrote:The perfect fight for this debate has just happened on FNF.

Immanuwel Aleem 9-0 vs Juan Carlos Rojas 5-6-1. I won't spoil the result, because it was a very good fight.

It was a great fight and certainly not a poor effort from either fighter.

The most recent addition to the Japanese banned list is Dondon Lapuz for his effort here against Tadashi Yuba
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NWXolhRFJ4