BoxRec

At heavyweight you have Wilder as a mandatory from that level of competition...

Well, firstly I'd say Malik Scott is significantly better than anyone those guys has faced, even though his performance against Wilder was ... dubious.

Secondly, Wilder is a mandatory more due to ABC nonsense than anything else.

Ali Raymi has never faced a top 100 opponent (according to the IWBR, which I produce). Deontay Wilder has beaten several including two in the top 50, he is ranked 10 at the moment his last four opponents have been ranked 23-67-76-24, in the scheme of things Bryant Jennings ranked a bit higher has fought and beat 45-75-23-21 in his last four, even Stiverne has only beaten an 11th ranked fighter as his best and Tyson Fury in his last four has faced two fighters not in the top 100. Wilder's resume is pretty much the same as the others ranked around him. If you look at the ratings you can see all 1700 boxers and the highest ranked boxers they have beaten ever, in the last 36 months, 30 months, 24 months, 18 months also their records against top 50 fighters, which many people believe is the only record that really matters.

Roughly 20% in any one division are yet to beat a top 100 ranked fighter.

Ali Raymi is currently ranked 70 in the Independent World Boxing Rankings. It is not easy to know if these fights are real, from you tube there are no judges at the fights, canvas does not fit properly, all the boxers have never met boxers outside of these fights. Many of the fighters drift 5 weight classes within a few months, Ali @ 105 does not seem smaller than many of his foes, who knows if he is 105, he talks of fighting at 122 a jump of 5 divisions. He has enginered himself into someone that could earn a lot from a fight. He may not even exist, the small crowd at each fight seems very similar.

ReggieDiggs wrote:

GilFilmore wrote:21-0 21 first round KO's in the 105lb division....That is deserving of a #1 ranking no matter how you look at it

That's retarded. KO 21 bums & you become the #1 guy

He's never fought a fighter with a loss on his record. That's impressive!

GilFilmore wrote:

ReggieDiggs wrote:

GilFilmore wrote:21-0 21 first round KO's in the 105lb division....That is deserving of a #1 ranking no matter how you look at it

That's retarded. KO 21 bums & you become the #1 guy

He's never fought a fighter with a loss on his record. That's impressive!

This is why Boxing is allowed to stink. People get fooled and genuinely think what he has done is good. Whilst the public can be fooled it will continue.

jujigatame wrote:

Boxing Prospect wrote:

jujigatame wrote:I dunno, outside the top handful of guys the 105 division is pretty woeful

Same could be said about MOST divisions.

Problem is that when you don't watch the fighters you tend to make your decisions on the records and that of their opponents. Watching guys like Tanaka would make you realise how good some of those guys are.

Buitrago looked VERY good against Sabillo, Menayothin is finally getting his first big test against the destructive Novoa.

I think if more people watched the fighters in and around 105 they'd get a lot more appreciation. A lot of them have screwy records which are misleading as well.

I think you're making a bit of a false equivalency here. I'm not saying these guys aren't skilled, but the talent pool is very shallow at 105, there just aren't that many guys in the sport small enough to make that weight. The fact that weight classes are absurdly close together at the lower weights doesn't help. If a welterweight fought the level of competition that Buitrago or Menayothin have, they'd barely be in the top 100.

If it that shallow out of 20+ fights he would have bound to fight some name fighteror at least someone outside Yemen. Its Shallow but he has found 20 minumweights/strawweights in Yemen alone. It can't be that shallow

world ranked wrote: If it that shallow out of 20+ fights he would have bound to fight some name fighteror at least someone outside Yemen. Its Shallow but he has found 20 minumweights/strawweights in Yemen alone. It can't be that shallow

First, I don't think your logic is sound.

Second, assuming we trust the dubious Yemeni records, only like 2 of his opponents were actually 105ers.

jujigatame wrote:

world ranked wrote: If it that shallow out of 20+ fights he would have bound to fight some name fighteror at least someone outside Yemen. Its Shallow but he has found 20 minumweights/strawweights in Yemen alone. It can't be that shallow

First, I don't think your logic is sound.

Second, assuming we trust the dubious Yemeni records, only like 2 of his opponents were actually 105ers.

But whats reasoning of these fights. Not 1 opponent ouside of that area no excuse even at the lower weights. The fact that the opponents not strawweight means he has even more options but just choose those opponets.

Of course Ali is number 1, show me anyone with a better record down in that weight? Everyone sucks around there, so I would go for Ali Raymi as the best, simply because of his record.

Kaaspeer wrote:Of course Ali is number 1, show me anyone with a better record down in that weight? Everyone sucks around there, so I would go for Ali Raymi as the best, simply because of his record.

Have you ever seen any of his "fights"? Great stuff! Reminds me of the old Red Skelton vs. Vincent Price skits.

punchoutsb wrote:

Kaaspeer wrote:Of course Ali is number 1, show me anyone with a better record down in that weight? Everyone sucks around there, so I would go for Ali Raymi as the best, simply because of his record.

Have you ever seen any of his "fights"? Great stuff! Reminds me of the old Red Skelton vs. Vincent Price skits.

Well, he certainly doesn't look very good. But neither does anyone else at that weight.

At least he's undefeated while fighting bigger guys, stopping them all in the first round...

Kaaspeer wrote:

punchoutsb wrote:

Kaaspeer wrote:Of course Ali is number 1, show me anyone with a better record down in that weight? Everyone sucks around there, so I would go for Ali Raymi as the best, simply because of his record.

Have you ever seen any of his "fights"? Great stuff! Reminds me of the old Red Skelton vs. Vincent Price skits.

Well, he certainly doesn't look very good. But neither does anyone else at that weight.

At least he's undefeated while fighting bigger guys, stopping them all in the first round...

And the fact that the fights look horribly faked don't put you off at all?

punchoutsb wrote:
And the fact that the fights look horribly faked don't put you off at all?

Of course. But that division puts me off in general...

Kaaspeer wrote:

punchoutsb wrote:
And the fact that the fights look horribly faked don't put you off at all?

Of course. But that division puts me off in general...

Then why are you commenting on who's deserving of rankings and title shots?

punchoutsb wrote:

Kaaspeer wrote:

punchoutsb wrote:
And the fact that the fights look horribly faked don't put you off at all?

Of course. But that division puts me off in general...

Then why are you commenting on who's deserving of rankings and title shots?

Dude, the 4 "top guys", Rodriquez n Budler n Novoa n Takayama, got these records:
15(10)-2(1)-0
26(9)-1-0
14(9)-4-1
27(10)-7(1)-0
Of course the division puts me off. Dominated by feather-fisted fighters who got almost half as many losses as they got wins, lol.

A glossy record does not a great fighter make...

You should try watching fighters before you comment on them.

punchoutsb wrote:A glossy record does not a great fighter make...

You should try watching fighters before you comment on them.

I got no personal problem with any boxers, they're doing their thing and they're better at it than I will ever be.
But I have a hard time enjoying fights involving fighters with such records against other guys with similar records...

I want Ali Raymi to fight the best in the division, so that he can either be a good win for them or prove himself.

Kaaspeer wrote:

punchoutsb wrote:A glossy record does not a great fighter make...

You should try watching fighters before you comment on them.

I got no personal problem with any boxers, they're doing their thing and they're better at it than I will ever be.
But I have a hard time enjoying fights involving fighters with such records against other guys with similar records...

I want Ali Raymi to fight the best in the division, so that he can either be a good win for them or prove himself.

You put too much value on records then.

jujigatame wrote:Well, firstly I'd say Malik Scott is significantly better than anyone those guys has faced, even though his performance against Wilder was ... dubious.

Secondly, Wilder is a mandatory more due to ABC nonsense than anything else.

Scott is better than Merlito Sabillo (Buitrago) and Florante Condes (Wanheng)? I'd certainly not say that was clear cut either way.

Zhong gave Daisuke Naito a very tough fight as well to give the diminutive Chinese fighter so props and got in with Cuello (Cuello injured himself admittedly)

Boxing Prospect wrote: Scott is better than Merlito Sabillo (Buitrago) and Florante Condes (Wanheng)? I'd certainly not say that was clear cut either way.

Zhong gave Daisuke Naito a very tough fight as well to give the diminutive Chinese fighter so props and got in with Cuello (Cuello injured himself admittedly)

Buitrago didn't actually beat Sabillo did he?

Condes is a decent win but he's also years past his prime. It's also arguable that Rachman was the only meaningful win of his entire career and that came in 2007.

Don't get me wrong, I don't dislike the little guys and will watch them when they're on TV, but it's silly to deny that the talent pool is thin at 105.

Raymi is a killer in the ring. End of.

jujigatame wrote:

Boxing Prospect wrote: Scott is better than Merlito Sabillo (Buitrago) and Florante Condes (Wanheng)? I'd certainly not say that was clear cut either way.

Zhong gave Daisuke Naito a very tough fight as well to give the diminutive Chinese fighter so props and got in with Cuello (Cuello injured himself admittedly)

Buitrago didn't actually beat Sabillo did he?

Condes is a decent win but he's also years past his prime. It's also arguable that Rachman was the only meaningful win of his entire career and that came in 2007.

Don't get me wrong, I don't dislike the little guys and will watch them when they're on TV, but it's silly to deny that the talent pool is thin at 105.

Buitrago won even if 2 of the judges didn't see it. Like Scott beat Glazkov

The win over Condes came years ago.

Boxing Prospect wrote: Buitrago won even if 2 of the judges didn't see it. Like Scott beat Glazkov

Fair enough. Although let's also not pretend that Sabillo had ever beaten anyone meaningful before the Buitrago fight.

The win over Condes came years ago.

And Condes's one noteworthy win came years before that.

punchoutsb wrote:

Kaaspeer wrote:

punchoutsb wrote:A glossy record does not a great fighter make...

You should try watching fighters before you comment on them.

I got no personal problem with any boxers, they're doing their thing and they're better at it than I will ever be.
But I have a hard time enjoying fights involving fighters with such records against other guys with similar records...

I want Ali Raymi to fight the best in the division, so that he can either be a good win for them or prove himself.

You put too much value on records then.

Raw numbers seem to impress him most. This is the same man who said Wilder is only a win over the undefeated Muhammad Ali from equaling Joe Frazier in terms of records.
That he doesn't notice a huge difference between the technique of Raymi versus other world ranked fighters in his division should be expected.

I am convinced judging by the youtube videos that Ali Raymi could not beat anyone ranked in the top 50. At straw-weight whilst it is a pretty thin division its near impossible to have 21 fights and still dodge a fighter that is not in the top 100 or even worse any fighter that is not in the top 100 that has even fought an opponent in the top 100. Ali Raymi has done that, every fighter is totally unknown as are the opponents. At Heavyweight there are always at least 1000 active, even at the top 400 level these can still fight.