BoxRec

Tony1244 wrote:I've often heard morning workouts are better and burn more calories for the average Joe. Also, if I was a trainer, I'd think a 5 AM run would discourage late night drinking and partying more than a "Run whenever you want," policy.

thate makes sense. good point.

polecateddy wrote:

Sklar wrote:

polecateddy wrote:It's very old school and the weight loss thing is really a myth. Also repeated steady state runs aren't brilliant for the modern pro boxer who require intervals and variety.
Getting up so early you're likely to have brain fog, and an increased risk of injury from not warming up properly. I think the main advantage for the average guy is having a regular routine I suppose and time management.

Just when you think you've heard it all...somebody introduces early morning 'brain fog'. No wonder boxing promoters are taking scissors to their dicks.

I think it must be a common condition around here! Lol

Imo traditional boxing running is outdated , there are better ways to get in prime conditioning for a fight

scallum wrote:Imo traditional boxing running is outdated , there are better ways to get in prime conditioning for a fight

Optimal training practices are reliant on available time.

Full-time pros and those who also have the time at their disposable to do two or three sessions per day, will get the most out of their physiology if they include blocks of 'traditional' aerobic training in their programmes. The wider the base, the higher the peak, etc... Don't forget that for the better part of a century or more, boxing training has been blocks of aerobic training that are then built on with interval training, resistance training and sprints of increasing intensity before a short taper prior to fight night. All the new stuff, isn't new at all. It's only new if you're new to it.

Also, don't forget that the 'all you need is HIIT' brigade are shooting at people who work for a living and only have time to do three or four sessions per week. They are correct that this type of trainee will get more bang for their buck with HIIT training but they are dealing with Joe Blow, not actual and aspiring champions.

I think this is where boxing is so far behind so many other sports in its use of sports science-there are so many old school and traditional trainers out there who simply inherit training methods from the past and then pass these on to boxers.

long steady runs at any time are a crap way to prepare for boxing. They are also a crap way to lose weight.

Broomhall wrote:long steady runs at any time are a crap way to prepare for boxing. They are also a crap way to lose weight.

I think you're wrong. Not about the weight loss so much, although you can spill an extra few hundred kcals a day by doing a run but in terms of physiological preparation they can serve a purpose and sports science does back that up in spades. Like I wrote earlier, if you're severely time limited then you'll have to pick and choose but the optimal way of training should involve steady state work too. It becomes crap when people turn their steady state sessions into threshold sessions.

great posts here, thnx to everyone!

Sklar wrote:

Broomhall wrote:long steady runs at any time are a crap way to prepare for boxing. They are also a crap way to lose weight.

I think you're wrong. Not about the weight loss so much, although you can spill an extra few hundred kcals a day by doing a run but in terms of physiological preparation they can serve a purpose and sports science does back that up in spades. Like I wrote earlier, if you're severely time limited then you'll have to pick and choose but the optimal way of training should involve steady state work too. It becomes crap when people turn their steady state sessions into threshold sessions.

Have a read of this Sklar

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/boxing/ru ... cky-124386

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/ss11.htm

If I were a young boxer starting out today I wouldnt go any near long steady runs, not only would I now have healthier knees and ankles I would probably have better all round fitness. If you enjoy running, stick with it but it wont help pr
prepare you for fighting.

Also a good article

http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/sports- ... ning-35891

There are too many variables to say there is a best way to train for boxing. If you weigh over 200#, long distance running may be very hard on your body. If you have back problems, running 5+ miles per day isn't going to work. Same thing with plantar fasciitis, ankle or knee problems, etc. What works for one boxer, won't necessarily be what is best for another. Every boxer needs to have great cardio conditioning. Biking, elliptical machines, swimming, etc are great cardio workouts that can reduce the impact on joints. For some boxers, long runs are a great way to increase their endurance and prepare them for higher intensity interval workouts.

Have had my kid quit traditional boxing running. Hasn't ran this whole entire year but still has Won 2 National Gold Medals in Usa doing a short duration / high intensity training method. Those long runs of traditional boxing seem illogical to me

scallum wrote:Those long runs of traditional boxing seem illogical to me

Then you don't understand the human energy systems properly. Polarisation of opinion is rampant on this subject when it really shouldn't be. People who flat out dismiss steady state work clearly don't have a deep understanding of the subject.

Sklar wrote:

scallum wrote:Those long runs of traditional boxing seem illogical to me

Then you don't understand the human energy systems properly. Polarisation of opinion is rampant on this subject when it really shouldn't be. People who flat out dismiss steady state work clearly don't have a deep understanding of the subject.

There's definitely room for steady state or base mileage. In cycling heart rate zone 2 certainly is supposed to promote a more efficient use of energy systems and I suppose weight loss. But boxing certainly operates in heart rate zones 3, 4 and 5. Anaerobic systems need to be trained properly too.

Sklar wrote:

scallum wrote:Those long runs of traditional boxing seem illogical to me

Then you don't understand the human energy systems properly. Polarisation of opinion is rampant on this subject when it really shouldn't be. People who flat out dismiss steady state work clearly don't have a deep understanding of the subject.

Humans also once thought the earth was flat and the sun rotated around the Earth LOL. Humans are always finding better ways to achieve better results. In a boxing match you are not going to be running 30 straight minutes right?

Broomhall wrote:

Sklar wrote:

Broomhall wrote:long steady runs at any time are a crap way to prepare for boxing. They are also a crap way to lose weight.

I think you're wrong. Not about the weight loss so much, although you can spill an extra few hundred kcals a day by doing a run but in terms of physiological preparation they can serve a purpose and sports science does back that up in spades. Like I wrote earlier, if you're severely time limited then you'll have to pick and choose but the optimal way of training should involve steady state work too. It becomes crap when people turn their steady state sessions into threshold sessions.

Have a read of this Sklar

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/boxing/ru ... cky-124386

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/ss11.htm

If I were a young boxer starting out today I wouldnt go any near long steady runs, not only would I now have healthier knees and ankles I would probably have better all round fitness. If you enjoy running, stick with it but it wont help pr
prepare you for fighting.

Also a good article

http://www.pponline.co.uk/encyc/sports- ... ning-35891

Exactly my thoughts. Those long traditional boxing runs are outdated I always deemed them illogical pertaining to getting in prime boxing shape

Sklar wrote:

scallum wrote:Those long runs of traditional boxing seem illogical to me

Then you don't understand the human energy systems properly. Polarisation of opinion is rampant on this subject when it really shouldn't be. People who flat out dismiss steady state work clearly don't have a deep understanding of the subject.

I think the articles I quoted are from people who do have a deep understanding, and they are saying that if there is a place for steady state work it can be achieved through much less damaging exercise than the usual steady run in the morning.

As Mcguigan states most boxing trainers are in the dark ages and running for miles and miles simply does not replicate what happens in a boxing ring.

I remember reading an article by ex arsenal players talking about when Arsene Wenger took over training, and he straight away stopped his players running for miles and miles particularly in pre season as he felt this was not what happened on a football pitch. The players didnt feel they "felt" fit psychologically but once the season actually started felt better and fitter than they ever did.

Polecat Daddy is right.

That mindless running is a BS waste of time, but it has a huge industry behind it, and people do it because they see others do it. However, just running is a poor form of cardio and bad for the heart.

There are much more effective ways to use that time and get better results.

However, the morning run is about training yourself to do something you don't want to do. It's purely psychological.

BAD INTENTIONS wrote:Polecat Daddy is right.

That mindless running is a BS waste of time, but it has a huge industry behind it, and people do it because they see others do it. However, just running is a poor form of cardio and bad for the heart.

There are much more effective ways to use that time and get better results.

However, the morning run is about training yourself to do something you don't want to do. It's purely psychological.

Badly misquoted as always! Lol Running is a terrific form of exercise for boxers. It actually pushing the heart rate higher than cycling because there is no support. There's always soon for a couple of steady 5 milers in any boxers schedule, but probably there should be 1-2 interval sessions a week akin to the type a middle distance runner may use. Steady base (steady even paced running) sessions are an integral part of training, it's no good just doing intervals for instance. Likewise the hardcore boxer who always does a 10-12km run every training day doesn't have the right balance either. What is this nonsense about running being bad for your heart? Lol

polecateddy wrote:

BAD INTENTIONS wrote:Polecat Daddy is right.

That mindless running is a BS waste of time, but it has a huge industry behind it, and people do it because they see others do it. However, just running is a poor form of cardio and bad for the heart.

There are much more effective ways to use that time and get better results.

However, the morning run is about training yourself to do something you don't want to do. It's purely psychological.

Badly misquoted as always! Lol Running is a terrific form of exercise for boxers. It actually pushing the heart rate higher than cycling because there is no support. There's always soon for a couple of steady 5 milers in any boxers schedule, but probably there should be 1-2 interval sessions a week akin to the type a middle distance runner may use. Steady base (steady even paced running) sessions are an integral part of training, it's no good just doing intervals for instance. Likewise the hardcore boxer who always does a 10-12km run every training day doesn't have the right balance either. What is this nonsense about running being bad for your heart? Lol

Nonsense? You should really read up on the health of long distance runners.

Also, shorter high intensity training has a tons of scientific research behind it. But I know, boxers have trained like this for years, so it's good.

fornicate science.

BAD INTENTIONS wrote:

polecateddy wrote:

BAD INTENTIONS wrote:Polecat Daddy is right.

That mindless running is a BS waste of time, but it has a huge industry behind it, and people do it because they see others do it. However, just running is a poor form of cardio and bad for the heart.

There are much more effective ways to use that time and get better results.

However, the morning run is about training yourself to do something you don't want to do. It's purely psychological.

Badly misquoted as always! Lol Running is a terrific form of exercise for boxers. It actually pushing the heart rate higher than cycling because there is no support. There's always soon for a couple of steady 5 milers in any boxers schedule, but probably there should be 1-2 interval sessions a week akin to the type a middle distance runner may use. Steady base (steady even paced running) sessions are an integral part of training, it's no good just doing intervals for instance. Likewise the hardcore boxer who always does a 10-12km run every training day doesn't have the right balance either. What is this nonsense about running being bad for your heart? Lol

Nonsense? You should really read up on the health of long distance runners.

Also, shorter high intensity training has a tons of scientific research behind it. But I know, boxers have trained like this for years, so it's good.

eff science.

These articles only said that long distance running is not good for boxers because boxing is an anaerobic sport. It wasn't said that it's bad itself.

Boxing is not entirely anaerobic, it contains burst of anaerobic activity. And any anaerobic training always requires supplementing with base aerobic training. As I said it is not as effective, for example, for runners simply to always train intervals. Studies have shown such an approach makes it harder to maintain a peak level of performance. Aerobic running effectively improves the efficiency of how the body functions and how energy is used.

runs further than 7-8 miles do more bad than good, imo.
that is where the hip and knee and ankle joint damage, and cracked metatarsals,
and tendon issues come up over time. up to that distance is good to achieve a baseline
fitness level, though. too many out of shape people train all-out from day 1 and that
is why they are soon back out of training from injuries.
everyone in their mind has an idea of where they should be based on what they did
in the past, but they forget what they did over a long period of time, often years,
to get to that point. they always fool themselves thinking they can get back there
in a month or two. there is no way you should be out killing yourself doing intervals
and ladders if you're out of shape. you don't go all-out doing different kinds of pushups,
dips, pullups, and abs, etc when you haven't been doing much of them for a while.
you have to build up to it over time and you need to be realistic about how much time
you will have to put it in each day over what period. i wouldn't do any speed work at all
until i could comfortably run at least 5-6 miles at a steady 7-minute pace, because if you can't
then you aren't in shape to do sprints and ladders yet. you're just abusing yourself.
when your body is ready for that kind of training then hit the track and the preparation
also strengthens your mind. the will to win is nothing without the willingness to prepare to win.
you have to be honest about where your starting point is and, especially for guys, the macho factor
can be a big roadblock. you have to be able to admit to yourself the level you are functioning at
when you start and plan things out from there, and when you get in decent shape build on it
instead of letting yourself get out of shape again.

Yes a boxer probably would ever need to run more than 7-8 miles at a steady pace. The world mile record holder and probably the best ever 1500m runner, Hicham El Guerouj never really ran for longer than an hour. I think it is an old wives tale to suggest than long distance running is bad for you. It's actually good for bone density, etc.

BAD INTENTIONS wrote:Polecat Daddy is right.

That mindless running is a BS waste of time, but it has a huge industry behind it, and people do it because they see others do it. However, just running is a poor form of cardio and bad for the heart.

There are much more effective ways to use that time and get better results.

However, the morning run is about training yourself to do something you don't want to do. It's purely psychological.

It is in no way "a poor form of cardio and bad for the heart." It may or may not be the best thing for boxers, but a 5-10 mile run at a reasonable pace is one of the best cardio workouts you can get AND is a heart builder. The morning run is also not about "training yourself to do something you don't want to do" if you in fact already enjoy running, which millions of people do.

In terms of "reading up on the health of long-distance runners," I have been running long for 35 years and my MD told me last week I had the heart of a fit 20 year old. I told him it was all the red wine I drink

giacomino wrote:

BAD INTENTIONS wrote:Polecat Daddy is right.

That mindless running is a BS waste of time, but it has a huge industry behind it, and people do it because they see others do it. However, just running is a poor form of cardio and bad for the heart.

There are much more effective ways to use that time and get better results.

However, the morning run is about training yourself to do something you don't want to do. It's purely psychological.

It is in no way "a poor form of cardio and bad for the heart." It may or may not be the best thing for boxers, but a 5-10 mile run at a reasonable pace is one of the best cardio workouts you can get AND is a heart builder. The morning run is also not about "training yourself to do something you don't want to do" if you in fact already enjoy running, which millions of people do.

In terms of "reading up on the health of long-distance runners," I have been running long for 35 years and my MD told me last week I had the heart of a fit 20 year old. I told him it was all the red wine I drink

Whatever sport you do/play you need to find the best way to prepare for that sport. If you are a long distance runner, or simply enjoy running-fine, I dont think there is an issue that exercise and regular running is good for you-subject to injuries, which are very common in running-but the thread is "Is the long traditional morning run a good way to prepare for boxing"

I would come back to the science and just a common sense look at what actually takes place in a boxing ring and as I say from a personal point of view I wished when I was boxing I had not gotten into this pointless way of training. Which I think cost me wins as a boxer and as an adult has led to lots of issues with my ankles, knees and hips.